Limit Breaks in PvE

The new PvP Limit Breaks are incredible! I was wondering would dev team consider making the current Limit Break 2 into Limit Break 1, and make the PvP Limit Break into Limit Break 2 PvE? And Limit Break 3 remains the same. Think this would add some flavor in PvE content. :)

ya know that dosent sould like a bad idea...in fact, if you would I would take it a slight step further.

Each player should their own Limit Break bar that goes up to lv 2, but at the same time all players simply by acting contribute to the LB3 bar (which is shared by the whole team).

(personal) LB lv1 grants some kind of class specific buff to the one who casted it
(Personal) LB lv2 its the PVP Limit breaks
(team wide) LB lv3 basically what it already is, but additionally grants that class specific buff to everyone.

That was actually what your weaponskills were meant to be originally (from 1.0 you had a 'TP' (or 'Tactical Points') bar that had to build up before you could use a weaponskill which was basically a glorified (but not flashy) Limit Break;.. but this system was gradually dumbed down in the effort to speed up combat - from ARR's launch weaponskills became normal abilities and the TP gauge was changed so that it was full by default and gradually was expended and would slowly regenerate. Now the TP gauge has been completely scrapped and weaponskills can be effectively spammed, effectively disengaging them from their original purpose.

Because of this, it's possible that Yoshi might look at something like that, but it seems he's been concentrating on having the Limit Break system a shared resource across the party, rather than having it independent for each character, so I don't see this changing for PvE sadly (potentially a similar use could be attached to the Job gauge, but that's probably too complicated).

Are we speaking about the animations (in which case, I agree it would be nice to have some visual flavor to level 2 LBs), or the effects (in which case, might be tricky, for example for WHM)?

It doesn't quite work as a shared system, especially with certain limit breaks in mind. SGE, for example, has something very unique and interesting for PVP, but is rendered mediocre in PVE. Additionally, you're then competing with every other job for your own specific limit break to shine. I definitely think PVP can be a great source of inspiration for many potential PVE changes, especially for the healers, but limit breaks, I think, need a different type of update. We do really need to see limit breaks updated at some point since DPS limit breaks are falling off in terms of usefulness as DPS continue to get stronger and stronger.

Yeah maybe not all PvP Limit Breaks will work in PVE content, but would like the devs to take inspiration from them and updates to Limit Break 1&2 animations.

I personally would love it if Tank/Healer/DPS Limit Breaks we're not tied together and separate.

Oh god no image them failing at trying to balance unique lb2 for every class..... NIGHTMARE

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Originally Posted by forsakee

Oh god no image them failing at trying to balance unique lb2 for every class..... NIGHTMARE

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As it stands, now, we only ever use DPS LBs anyway, of which we always go for Melee LB3. So if you're worried about one being more used than another, we're already there.
If you're worried about meta, or whatever, well, we're actually still already there.

Personally, I would prefer we have personal limit breaks as well as a team limit break. Perhaps they're testing it out with PVP, and they're thinking about giving it to us as level 100 capstone abilities?

The fun part about this, is that there is actually no major difference at all between a Limit Break and any other long cooldown.
So balancing them wouldn't be harder than any other ability.
In PvP, all LBs are on a 60/90/120s CD. Unlike the current PvE LB, which loads when you get hit or deal damage also.
The only difference with a standard cooldown is that it doesn't load when you are tanking the floor.

In light party my single target melee LB2 is more useful than "find the best position to hit as many targets as possible" PVP one.

I feel like players would end up fighting over the LB. They are cool for pvp, but the current LB's for pve are fine.

Wouldn't be down for a personal LB that's any different from now. Would wanna keep it in pvp.

LBs drastically different like PvP would require jobs because of how strong their limit is or require jobs to be balanced around how strong their limit is. It would be annoying personally, and I think a lot of systems (like DRK Limit and pvp Shadowbringer) should be kept in PvP because of inherently different design goals.

Now if you're talking animations, sure I'm all for it!

If we can have the PvP LB into the PvE mode that would be great, but not as a replacement. But more like a huge finisher or tools that help the whole team, some of them could even balance class again.

For exemple, Summoners already have that "PvP LB" Into PvE, so, it may be doable.

Let's take MCH, their is a huge problem with this class and many player complain about it : aDPS

If we can have the Sniper LB used as a Finisher, this could boost MCH damage. For exemple, implement a 3rd gauge, that only build up when you enter this "Hypercharge" state. When the Gauge is full, you could use the Sniper attack, and deal massive damage to one target.

So I will make a little list there for every class that can have use of the PvP LB as a finisher or a new tool to help in PvE, let's get started :

PLD :

PvP : Immunity for PLD / 10 Sec, -50% damage income for all allies near the PLD for 10 sec.

PvE : Make it an upgrade for Hallowed Ground, allowing the PLD to keep the Immunity, and reduce the damage income for allies by 15% for 10 sec. This way, we keep the "PvP" way, but nerfing it to match PvE

WAR

PvP : disable defense for enemies, give Inner Release and Thrill of battle for 15 sec.

PvE : Make the PvP LB an upgrade for Inner Release but don't allow Thrill of battle into it. Change the "Disabled defense" for a +10% damage dealt by the Warrior to all enemies in a 12 yalms radius for 15 sec.

DRK :

PvP : Reduce DRK's HP to 1, Can't die for 10 sec, absorb 100% of damage dealt into HP, deal 1 to 20000 Damage, depending on the DRK's HP.

PvE : Living dead is pretty much the same tool, and adding damage to this skill will only lead people to use it in order to do damage instead of invuln. For this one, I'll PASS

GNB :

PvP : Deal damage every second for 4 second, applying a 3% vuln stack (up to 5) on each hit, then use a finisher after 4 second.

PvE : I don't know how to fit that into the GNB's Kit. Having something to "channel" can be quite weird for some people. Maybe doing something like a personnal vuln (2% instead of 3%, stackable 5 time) for 15 second, and then the explosive finisher on it ? I don't know if that could be interresting...

MNK :

PvP : Dash toward target, stun the target for the duration of the animation, destroy defense with damage up if defense effectively destroyed.

PvE : Making a huge combo for a finisher is pretty much what the MNK already have. I don't see a use for that one here, but maybe some people may have an idea ?

DRG :

PvP : Jump into the air for 5 second, being untargetable, cleanse effect, +50% damage if the target was under 5 yalms of landing point, create 25% HP Shield

PvE : Having this one in PvE could be actually broken but the mecanic behind it is really good. Make a jump into the air for 5 second max, with a early release for when you want and make this skill GCD of 2.5 sec (Unable to use other abilities while in the air, landing on the target make another 2.5 Sec GCD). Make the dragoon Invuln to all attack when still in the air. Make a AoE damage of 10 Yalms and allow a 10% damage boost if the target was 5 Yalms or less from the landing point. Create a shield on the DRG for 10% of his Max HP for 10 sec.

NIN :

PvP : Killing spree if Target is under 50% HP, including a Dash on target.

PvE : One of the Raiju thing is pretty similar, cause it's a Dash doing decent damage. Again, I'm relying on you for this one, Ninja's main !

SAM :

PvP : Dash through the target, Deal huge AoE Damage and One shot them if they are afflicted with Kuzushi. Ignore defense.

PvE : This can be an interesting Finisher ! Going right through the enemies making a huge damage may lead to death in some Hard content tho. So how about a Dash, making Huge damage usable right after Kaeshi Namikiri ? Thus, you got a 3 attack combo Finisher, dealing massive damage. Considering the SAM's problem actually, I let the SAM's Main decide what you'll do with this one !

RPR :

PvP : I am the Darkness ! But... Less stronger than PvE... So PASS

WHM :

PvP : I'm Firing the LASERS ! Huge damage, and spread Wings !

PvE : If at first This can be looked as an upgrade for the LvL 80 Ability, it will completely change the way Wings are used... Yeah, for DPS. Therefore, In my opinion, this need to replace the Blood Lily, allowing to deal huge damage to the target in a straigh line and buffing the healing power of the WHM for the next 15 seconds. Allow the HoT on the PvP LB to be an upgrade for the LvL 80 ability.

SCH :

PvP : They already have this for PvE. Sorry SCH, PASS

AST :

PvP : Game changer ! Reduce damage dealt by enemies and Increase damage dealt by Allies by a significant margin.

PvE : I don't even know if that is usable in the Kit today. The mecanics of this could be interesting but without the diminishing over time (Of course the buff could be a 10% damage buff and 10% damage mitigation alltogether, but this will be really strong)

Sage :

PvP : 5 yalms radius area where all external attack are nullified and Huge DoT for enemies in the area.

PvE : This one will actually be broken in PvE if we take it raw from the PvP. If we were to touch it, I fear it will be just like the bubble from the SCH, which will affect Healer's identity. I have no clue what to do with this one.

BRD :

PvP : Increase Attack and Attack speed for everyone, Increase LB's gauge over time.

PvE : We already have something similar with the buff usable after the 3 songs.

MCH :

PvP : HEADSHOT !

PvE : Can be used as a Finisher, stronger than Drill, Anchor or Chainsaw, but must not be affected by "Reassemble", allowing for a greater Potency. As said before, this could lead to a 3rd gauge built up after Hypercharge being used and when full Sniper being usable dealing massive damage to the target.

DNC :

PvP : Charming people.... Really ?

PvE : No use for this.

BLM :

PvP : Allow 6 instant cast for Flare/Freeze, Give Polyglot for 60 seconds.

PvE : Allow a 6 Instant Cast for Any Spell, Give 1 stack of Polyglot. This will give more mobility to the BLM (Healer won't need to adjust anymore, Just joking)

SMN :

PvP : Bahamut or Phenix.

PvE : We already have those ! PASS !

RDM :

PvP : The first cross shaped AoE in the game to be used by player, dealing damage and heal to anyone touched.

PvE : Usable as it is, really, Potency must be equal on heal and damage, allow double hit on the center of the Cross.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

As it stands, now, we only ever use DPS LBs anyway, of which we always go for Melee LB3. So if you're worried about one being more used than another, we're already there.
If you're worried about meta, or whatever, well, we're actually still already there.

Personally, I would prefer we have personal limit breaks as well as a team limit break. Perhaps they're testing it out with PVP, and they're thinking about giving it to us as level 100 capstone abilities?

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Yes our current system is not perfect but this idea would just cause more issues. I'd rather them use their recourses too fix ingame systems or adding content.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

DRK :

PvP : Reduce DRK's HP to 1, Can't die for 10 sec, absorb 100% of damage dealt into HP, deal 1 to 20000 Damage, depending on the DRK's HP.

PvE : Living dead is pretty much the same tool, and adding damage to this skill will only lead people to use it in order to do damage instead of invuln. For this one, I'll PASS

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Alternatively, let DRKs have 2 invulns, they deserve it :)

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

SCH :

PvP : They already have this for PvE. Sorry SCH, PASS

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But what if we had another, more powerful, Seraph as a treat.

I think, only current Tank LB3 should stay the same, while the rest gets completely reworked from the Ground up and in a way, where ALL other LBs except Tank, are fundamentally different Skills, and not just simple heals or dps LBs.

The reason why i didn't mention Healer LB, is because Healers deserve to be reworked from scratch, because of how stale their Gameplay is and how overtuned their Kit is.
Instead, Healers should get improved Res Skill(s) (and keep in mind, not all of them should get the same one), one that, for example could res someone immediately to Full HP/MP (but with a fair CD), a AoE res effect in a similar fashion like cure 3 or a Res that doesn't give Weakness, just to mention a few examples.

I'd said it for years but each player should have their own separate LB gauge and promote job identity. Time to start learning from PvP's example with Limit breaks and Job identity. PvE has a big problem where everything per role is the exact same garbage.

If Blue Mages can Final Sting chain in coordinated groups I'm not seeing any reason not to have separate gauges for players.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

Alternatively, let DRKs have 2 invulns, they deserve it :)



But what if we had another, more powerful, Seraph as a treat.

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You know what ? You actually gave me a great idea for the SCH. But before I'll jump into that, I think 2 invuln for DRK is wayyyyyyy too broken xD.

So, back to the SCH : What if you got a skill similar to "Dissipation" (Or even an upgrade to that). Allowing you to fuse with your Fairy, and changing your form into a Fairy-like thing (Just like the Reaper does with his avatar). Similar to the RPR mecanics, You got a limited amount of powerfull Shield usable while in that form, and this form doesn't restrain you to use Broil. Maybe allowing all Shield to be 10-15% Stronger while in Fairy Form and mitigate incoming damage by 5% while the "Fairy boosted shiled" is active on allies.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I feel like players would end up fighting over the LB. They are cool for pvp, but the current LB's for pve are fine.

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We already have that system. And LBs usually don't matter anyway. But it's fun. I'm all for more fun. Or just make them useable in the overworld. *Nobody* cares about the overworld.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

You know what ? You actually gave me a great idea for the SCH. But before I'll jump into that, I think 2 invuln for DRK is wayyyyyyy too broken xD.

So, back to the SCH : What if you got a skill similar to "Dissipation" (Or even an upgrade to that). Allowing you to fuse with your Fairy, and changing your form into a Fairy-like thing (Just like the Reaper does with his avatar). Similar to the RPR mecanics, You got a limited amount of powerfull Shield usable while in that form, and this form doesn't restrain you to use Broil. Maybe allowing all Shield to be 10-15% Stronger while in Fairy Form and mitigate incoming damage by 5% while the "Fairy boosted shiled" is active on allies.

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I mean, this is just how Dissipation should work in the first place without an LB, preferably also unlocking more Fairy gauge spenders for the duration than the boring stuff you have normally.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

We already have that system. And LBs usually don't matter anyway. But it's fun. I'm all for more fun. Or just make them useable in the overworld. *Nobody* cares about the overworld.

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I mean, outside of LB3's? No not really. LB2's for ranged are pretty situational and all the melee dps have the exact same animation for LB1 and 2. If everyone had a unique LB1 and LB2 it would be a lot more annoying because I guarantee people would be barking at each other on who gets to use the LB.

I guess I wouldn't really have a problem with a mini LB1 for solo/overworld play though.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

I mean, this is just how Dissipation should work in the first place without an LB, preferably also unlocking more Fairy gauge spenders for the duration than the boring stuff you have normally.

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My initial post with all the suggestion was not about replacing LB, but adding things inspired from the PvP that we've seen into the PvE. SCH Doesn't have anything new in PvP. I haven't done any calculation or whatever, so you may think some can be added as such, or be an upgrade of already existing skill

Dissipation is actually what it is but this doesn't mean it can't be upgraded into something more interesting, and your suggestion there can make idea grow in the head of people. Having more Fairy Gauge spender is an idea that have a good reason to be searched