SAM changes ruins new patch

How am I suppose to enjoy the patch when my favorite job is gutted like this? This is ridiculous. I love kaiten. Bring it back asap.

I agree with you totally here. The patch is otherwise excellent with a plethora of great new features and content. If my favorite job was exactly the same I would be in heaven right now, but it feels like rain on that parade. It shows how critical job design is to the experience. Luckily I do enjoy the current mono and reaper so I can just… switch mains I guess for now

Should've defended healer mains back when their jobs were gutted, and we wouldn't be in this situation. Healer simplification was the canary in the coal mine but most people just stood apathetic on the sidelines or outright dismissed the complaints of healer mains. And now look where we are, with several DPS classes getting simplified or gutted. Including YOUR favorite.

Imagine how I felt at the start of ShB When my favorite class of AST was gutted and had most of its time magic removed, alongside its unique card identity... and the class quests gutted in turn to compensate this. I felt fucking miserable, just as you do now, yet far too few stood up for healer mains at the time and thus gave the impression that simplification=good in the devs eyes. And now we're here, with the classes most people actually like getting gutted and altered. And even if we stand up for this now, it'll only slow the changes.

It's too little too late, my dude, you should've helped others when they had complaints.

100% with you! SAM was the only job I enjoy and it's terrible now. The entire feeling of the class is RUINED. I am done with XIV after years of loving and defending this game. I hope they loose many more players! Cheers

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Should've defended healer mains back when their jobs were gutted, and we wouldn't be in this situation. Healer simplification was the canary in the coal mine but most people just stood apathetic on the sidelines or outright dismissed the complaints of healer mains. And now look where we are, with several DPS classes getting simplified or gutted. Including YOUR favorite.

Imagine how I felt at the start of ShB When my favorite class of AST was gutted and had most of its time magic removed, alongside its unique card identity... and the class quests gutted in turn to compensate this. I felt fucking miserable, just as you do now, yet far too few stood up for healer mains at the time and thus gave the impression that simplification=good in the devs eyes. And now we're here, with the classes most people actually like getting gutted and altered. And even if we stand up for this now, it'll only slow the changes.

It's too little too late, my dude, you should've helped others when they had complaints.

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You realise that most SAM mains probably don't main healers, right? Laying on the blame on SAMs for not defending you because you didn't fight hard enough is just straight cope. If you want healers to get fixed, rally all the healers to come up with *specific* reasons that their classes and the role feels bad. Come up with mathematical analysis, come up with empassioned speeches, do something that isn't simply "healing is braindead now, fix it please!" because that's not passing on any information other than the fact you're displeased.

If nothing else, you're just coming off as spiteful and a hypocrite because now when complaints are being made, you're sitting there gloating instead of embodying the change that you're trying to advocate for and getting in the trenches with the SAMs. They might even respect you more for it. Instead, you're just going to be distruptive and combative which isn't helping your case - or anyone else's for that matter. Personally I've only played AST to level it because I've never liked the class, but you expect me - and everyone else - to defend a class we don't know, don't play and can't give a detailed analysis of because you asked? That's not really how this works.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Should've defended healer mains back when their jobs were gutted, and we wouldn't be in this situation. Healer simplification was the canary in the coal mine but most people just stood apathetic on the sidelines or outright dismissed the complaints of healer mains. And now look where we are, with several DPS classes getting simplified or gutted. Including YOUR favorite.

Imagine how I felt at the start of ShB When my favorite class of AST was gutted and had most of its time magic removed, alongside its unique card identity... and the class quests gutted in turn to compensate this. I felt fucking miserable, just as you do now, yet far too few stood up for healer mains at the time and thus gave the impression that simplification=good in the devs eyes. And now we're here, with the classes most people actually like getting gutted and altered. And even if we stand up for this now, it'll only slow the changes.

It's too little too late, my dude, you should've helped others when they had complaints.

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I am still SOO MAD about the cards and time magic!!! They ruined AST with that! Both my fav jobs now! In the garbage. AST is just not the same, I used to love it back then.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

You realise that most SAM mains probably don't main healers, right? Laying on the blame on SAMs for not defending you because you didn't fight hard enough is just straight cope. If you want healers to get fixed, rally all the healers to come up with *specific* reasons that their classes and the role feels bad. Come up with mathematical analysis, come up with empassioned speeches, do something that isn't simply "healing is braindead now, fix it please!" because that's not passing on any information other than the fact you're displeased.

If nothing else, you're just coming off as spiteful and a hypocrite because now when complaints are being made, you're sitting there gloating instead of embodying the change that you're trying to advocate for and getting in the trenches with the SAMs. They might even respect you more for it. Instead, you're just going to be distruptive and combative which isn't helping your case - or anyone else's for that matter. Personally I've only played AST to level it because I've never liked the class, but you expect me - and everyone else - to defend a class we don't know, don't play and can't give a detailed analysis of because you asked? That's not really how this works.

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Dude if you’ve been here long enough you’ve at least looked at the other role forums to see what the hell they’re up to. That’s just being mindful of your options. What he’s saying is absolutely true.

oldSMN enjoyers welcome you to the club, it kind of sucks here though hope you get out soon.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

You realise that most SAM mains probably don't main healers, right? Laying on the blame on SAMs for not defending you because you didn't fight hard enough is just straight cope. If you want healers to get fixed, rally all the healers to come up with *specific* reasons that their classes and the role feels bad. Come up with mathematical analysis, come up with empassioned speeches, do something that isn't simply "healing is braindead now, fix it please!" because that's not passing on any information other than the fact you're displeased.

If nothing else, you're just coming off as spiteful and a hypocrite because now when complaints are being made, you're sitting there gloating instead of embodying the change that you're trying to advocate for and getting in the trenches with the SAMs. They might even respect you more for it. Instead, you're just going to be distruptive and combative which isn't helping your case - or anyone else's for that matter. Personally I've only played AST to level it because I've never liked the class, but you expect me - and everyone else - to defend a class we don't know, don't play and can't give a detailed analysis of because you asked? That's not really how this works.

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Y'all get what you deserve for not playing the correct class.

Black Mage, as Papa Yoshi intended :D.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Dude if you’ve been here long enough you’ve at least looked at the other role forums to see what the hell they’re up to. That’s just being mindful of your options. What he’s saying is absolutely true.

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I never disputed that what he said about the class wasn't true, what I have issue with is his attitude. Healers are having a rough time, and I feel for them but I only ever dabble with healing being a tank main so I'm not really sure what they expect me to do about it. I didn't play AST all that much in 4.X or 5.X and I'm not going to play it very much for this current content; I've never liked the class very much and odds are I never will... So how exactly am I going to have anything else to add to the argument from ASTs about Square dumbing down their class? The best thing I can do is not give healers shit for trying to stand up for their role and hope that they're not going to come in and be salty and distruptive when I try to defend classes that I like. If the sentiment from the playerbase is "Everyone deserved dumbed down jobs because they never defended the healers" then we might as well never bring up any piece of feedback or criticism to Square again because we deserve all we get, if we follow the thought to the logical conclusion. /shrug

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Y'all get what you deserve for not playing the correct class.

Black Mage, as Papa Yoshi intended :D.

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Reject Kaiten. Acquire Paradox. :P

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Y'all get what you deserve for not playing the correct class.

Black Mage, as Papa Yoshi intended :D.

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Ya know, funny thing about this is blm can go upwards of 30k crit but we could just reach 20k. Yoshi P talking about essentially future proofing the job could've happened as a 7.0 change but no, they have to shaft this right now when Ultimate is upon us. Doesn't even change the fact that them talking about damage variance and future proofing (since kaiten would inflate damage higher than they'd like apparently) then gutting iajutsu meant they just screwed up the soul of the job which was to build up sen in order to get to the big attacks. Now, we basically have no need for kenki, Shinten spamming feels awful and our iajutsu was gutted like a fish. I don't think they realize this feels so much worse than mnk when they have half the rework done.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Should've defended healer mains back when their jobs were gutted, and we wouldn't be in this situation. Healer simplification was the canary in the coal mine but most people just stood apathetic on the sidelines or outright dismissed the complaints of healer mains. And now look where we are, with several DPS classes getting simplified or gutted. Including YOUR favorite.

Imagine how I felt at the start of ShB When my favorite class of AST was gutted and had most of its time magic removed, alongside its unique card identity... and the class quests gutted in turn to compensate this. I felt fucking miserable, just as you do now, yet far too few stood up for healer mains at the time and thus gave the impression that simplification=good in the devs eyes. And now we're here, with the classes most people actually like getting gutted and altered. And even if we stand up for this now, it'll only slow the changes.

It's too little too late, my dude, you should've helped others when they had complaints.

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Getting real tired of this tribalism from certain healers, DRK, and etc players. “You don’t like the changes! Too bad you have to deal with it like us!” I don’t play healers enough to make any meaningful input on their designs. I prefer playing melee dps. Maybe you should spend your time on these forums more constructively rather than trying to take out your frustration on other job fanbases.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

You realise that most SAM mains probably don't main healers, right? Laying on the blame on SAMs for not defending you because you didn't fight hard enough is just straight cope. If you want healers to get fixed, rally all the healers to come up with *specific* reasons that their classes and the role feels bad. Come up with mathematical analysis, come up with empassioned speeches, do something that isn't simply "healing is braindead now, fix it please!" because that's not passing on any information other than the fact you're displeased.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues Thread discussing healer issues in general, including all of that you mention. I reccomend reading through this as it goes in-depth as to the healer complaints in general as well as the dev hypocrisy on several issues.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-quit-healing Thread discussing why people have given up healing and their opinions on healing in general. Most giving in-depth reasoning for their choices to quit or to tolerate it.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...t-currently-is. Thread talking about bad sign comment by the director.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ouble-Standard Thread talking about the hypocrisy around healer discussion and the hypocrisy of the devs regarding healers.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate Thread about the very tone-deaf answer given during the most recent QnA regarding healers, and the state of healers as is.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ealer-designer. Person talking on why we need a healer designer and discussion around such.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ogizing-for-it. Thread on someone tired of bad healer design that spread off into a debate on healer design in general (I also have a comment there that got admin deleted on trying to organize things into megathreads, lol).

And that's just off the top of my head. If you go to the healer forums and read thread by thread you'll find countless arguments, almost all of which are in-depth and back up their statements. We have been arguing like that FOR YEARS and we've gotten nothing but being forgotten and minor changes for it.

As for the other part about being rude. My friend, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ergo, I don't care how blunt I have to be as being kind with wording for YEARS has gotten me nowhere, I will be the most obnoxious person on earth if it means actual change. Hell, I'll shout it from the rooftops if I have to, if it means more people know how shit healer gameplay is. And I do genuinely believe if we as a community got onto the devs about this shit back when it was affecting healers, we would not be in this situation right now.

I want you to understand that I hate the SAM changes as much as most others here, utterly despise them, but these could have been prevented if the community just acted earlier and stuck up for the healers back when these simplification changes were first manifesting. Should've stuck up for Dark Knight players as well, come to think of it. But the time is too late for them, I suppose. Best we can do now is rally behind this issue, and you SAM players do have my support (hell, I was a sam main ever since they gutted SMN with 6.0, thus my hatred for the changes is more than blind support). I'm just being realistic when I think it'll do little good, and when I say healers were the hint, I mean it. You all have my support with this shit, and I'll add my voice to the pile, but you should know this was preventable in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

As for the other part about being rude. My friend, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ergo, I don't care how blunt I have to be as being kind with wording for YEARS has gotten me nowhere, I will be the most obnoxious person on earth if it means actual change. Hell, I'll shout it from the rooftops if I have to, if it means more people know how shit healer gameplay is. And I do genuinely believe if we as a community got onto the devs about this shit back when it was affecting healers, we would not be in this situation right now.

I want you to understand that I hate the SAM changes as much as most others here, utterly despise them, but these could have been prevented if the community just acted earlier and stuck up for the healers back when these simplification changes were first manifesting. Should've stuck up for Dark Knight players as well, come to think of it. But the time is too late for them, I suppose. Best we can do now is rally behind this issue, and you SAM players do have my support (hell, I was a sam main ever since they gutted SMN with 6.0, thus my hatred for the changes is more than blind support). I'm just being realistic when I think it'll do little good, and when I say healers were the hint, I mean it. You all have my support with this shit, and I'll add my voice to the pile, but you should know this was preventable in the first place.

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Once again I am not obligated to fight your battles. I don’t play healer so anything I would say would have been not of value. Stop with this tribalism malarkey. Sam players aren’t to blame for your healer woes. We can’t control the devs anymore than you can, we can only try. All this accomplished is potentially making your fellow healer mains look annoying by association and make people have less sympathy for legit complaints.

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Originally Posted by WorldPeacElbow

How am I suppose to enjoy the patch when my favorite job is gutted like this? This is ridiculous. I love kaiten. Bring it back asap.

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I relate to this on so many levels... I was really looking forward to the content, but now... I don't... I only play Samurai, so the new Extreme and Alliance raid? I don't care I dont even want to do the new MSQ. I only log to raiding for the static I am part off to help a member get their last pieces. The entire day I just been staring at the darn striking dummy just trying to make sense of what just happened... just depressing I can't enjoy the game and I guess maybe I am weird, maybe I am very picky but I wished I could have gone into the content with how SAM used to be and not what SAM is now