Nerfing Expedience is bad for scholar

Long time lurker, first time poster. I just wanted to say that I don't like Expedience getting nerfed.

I think reducing Expedience’s sprint time will make SCH’s capstone ability less interesting to use. Currently it’s just a longer sprint with a 10% damage mitigation, which allows you to do mechanics better but isn’t needed as everyone has sprint though for not as long. Lowering its sprint time would make it just sprint with a 10% mitigation. And scholar doesn’t really have many skills that allow for large amount of healing or buffs. It doesn’t really have anything to increase spells speed or gain MP quickly or high potency heals. The 20 second sprint really differentiated it from other utility skills in the game.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

Long time lurker, first time poster. I just wanted to say that I don't like Expedience getting nerfed.

I think reducing Expedience’s sprint time will make SCH’s capstone ability less interesting to use. Currently it’s just a longer sprint with a 10% damage mitigation, which allows you to do mechanics better but isn’t needed as everyone has sprint though for not as long. Lowering its sprint time would make it just sprint with a 10% mitigation

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Outside some longer mechanics of ultimate the extra 10s loss is not a big deal, 10s is still enough to go from one edge of the arena to the other. The nerf is more a flavour/fun one rather than one that seriously affects the healer balance

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And scholar doesn’t really have many skills that allow for large amount of healing or buffs.

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*cries in fey union, the strongest single target regen, fey blessing, recitation, fey illumination, indom, protraction, whispering dawn,excog, lustrate, sacred soil, the 2 charges of consolation...* if you want to heal with sch it can do it just fine the problem is how ED limits the usage of the aetherflow related heals (and the dps rotation) not the strength of the kit

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It doesn’t really have anything to increase spells speed or gain MP quickly or high potency heals

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Literally aetherflow gives 20% of mp back with the press of a button and it doesn't need spell speed because the gcd heals of sch are much weaker than its ogcd kit which is unnafected by the sps, lets not try make everything a whm when whm is a burning example of bad design

Fail to see how Fey union is the strongest single target regen, when kardia exists... Fey Union literally disables other abilities... where is this happening ever to Sage?

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

Fail to see how Fey union is the strongest single target regen, when kardia exists... Fey Union literally disables other abilities... where is this happening ever to Sage?

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fey union is a 300 potency regen 120 potency over embrace (and more or less the same potency over kardia when counting pet scalation) for a single skill that is not a buff its the strongest regen, im not saying is perfect, far from it, but lets not call sch's kit weak when ED is the only thing keeping it from being a healing monster as strong as Sage is

Fey union is 300 potency overtime IF you have a filled fairy gauge. Any other ability used disables this effect. Kardia is constant and does not gets disabled at any moment by any other skills, if anything it gets buffed with Soteria.

Scholar is indeed very potent, not saying that it is not, but to me it seems unfair that they are nerfing the interesting utility ability that was the ONLY cool thing we got with EW job changes, just to make sage more appealing... people in raids choose scholar because this ability is indeed very useful. As it is a movement for the full team opposed to movement to only yourself.

I find it also contradicting that they said they wont nerf a job to make other jobs in the same level when we had discussions on reaper. Instead they just said "we will buff the other jobs"... and low and behold, healers again get the cold bucket treatment...

I'm trying to figure out what weird situation caused them to nerf it. As far as I'm aware, no mechanic was being trivialized because Scholoton lasted too long. Maybe someone in one of the devs' raid teams ran into a wall because they forgot they had sprint speed and nerfed it because any inconvenience healers cause DPS, no matter how small, must be immediately removed?

It'd explain why the speed duration went down and not, oh, I don't know, Macrocosmos deleting an entire heal check mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'm trying to figure out what weird situation caused them to nerf it.

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Scholars were having a little too much fun with their one and only interesting ability, so the devs had to tone it down a bit just to remind scholars of their place.

Honestly don't know why anyone would play this class anymore, i mean it's clear the devs actively despise the class.

And to the people who say it's just 10s and not a big deal, that's not the point, the point is that no one was complaining about expedience being overpowered or trivializing content, it was just a fun unique skill on a really boring job.

Yet somehow, in the developers infinite majestic unfathomable wisdom, they thought it necessary to nerf Expedience while not touching Macrocosmos, a spell which actually is somewhat overpowered and DOES break some content.
(don't actually want Macro nerfed btw i love it, but if any spell needed a nerf its this one)

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_

Scholars were having a little too much fun with their one and only interesting ability, so the devs had to tone it down a bit just to remind scholars of their place.

Honestly don't know why anyone would play this class anymore, i mean it's clear the devs actively despise the class.

And to the people who say it's just 10s and not a big deal, that's not the point, the point is that no one was complaining about expedience being overpowered or trivializing content, it was just a fun unique skill on a really boring job.

Yet somehow, in the developers infinite majestic unfathomable wisdom, they thought it necessary to nerf Expedience while not touching Macrocosmos, a spell which actually is somewhat overpowered and DOES break some content.
(don't actually want Macro nerfed btw i love it, but if any spell needed a nerf its this one)

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I'd mind that finger twitching on the monkey's paw. Scholar is boring and competitive. You could be boring and weak, like WHM.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

Fey union is 300 potency overtime IF you have a filled fairy gauge. Any other ability used disables this effect. Kardia is constant and does not gets disabled at any moment by any other skills, if anything it gets buffed with Soteria.

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And Kardia stops existing as soon as you stop DPSing. Fey Union is the strongest ST regen in the game because it has the highest potency per tick, as simple as that. It's kind of weird we are getting so hellbent on this matter when it isn't even the topic of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

Fey union is 300 potency overtime IF you have a filled fairy gauge. Any other ability used disables this effect. Kardia is constant and does not gets disabled at any moment by any other skills, if anything it gets buffed with Soteria.

Scholar is indeed very potent, not saying that it is not, but to me it seems unfair that they are nerfing the interesting utility ability that was the ONLY cool thing we got with EW job changes, just to make sage more appealing... people in raids choose scholar because this ability is indeed very useful. As it is a movement for the full team opposed to movement to only yourself.

I find it also contradicting that they said they wont nerf a job to make other jobs in the same level when we had discussions on reaper. Instead they just said "we will buff the other jobs"... and low and behold, healers again get the cold bucket treatment...

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Fey union is 300 potency per tick, how filled the gauge is does not matter (besides its not like you could spend it on somewhere else...) , it can be disabled only by fairy skills and even with that it can be reapplied in the next gcd (as long as you dont use seraph or dissipation), is far less problematic than seraph and dissipation. I'm perfectly aware what kardia does, and how soteria can bump its power up but for a single action fey union is simply the strongest regen of the game and that wasn't even the point of my comment.

The point of my comment is how the change is mostly meaningless because the sprint even with 10s is already long enough to last for the vast majority of mechanics where it could be relevant, dismiss the idea that Sch can't heal well, as the OP said, when it has a fuck ton of healing options (even if a lot of them are dps loses) and how we should focus on the other problems the job (Lack of interesting new skills, a gauge mostly unused, dps rotation that is braindead, still missing a second fairy, ED still predating the Aetherflow system...) has which are far more detrimental than "muh 10s sprint"

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'm trying to figure out what weird situation caused them to nerf it. As far as I'm aware, no mechanic was being trivialized because Scholoton lasted too long. Maybe someone in one of the devs' raid teams ran into a wall because they forgot they had sprint speed and nerfed it because any inconvenience healers cause DPS, no matter how small, must be immediately removed?

It'd explain why the speed duration went down and not, oh, I don't know, Macrocosmos deleting an entire heal check mechanic.

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Seriously, how often were raid wides or multi hit attacks happening in multiples? But I guess it's ok for Panhaima, Liturgy, Macrocosmos to be able to deal with those but not Expedient.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

The nerf is more a flavour/fun one rather than one that seriously affects the healer balance

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Sure it doesn't affect job balance, but it affects the uniqueness the ability has and gives to scholar. It gave ppl a reason to want to have SCH around.

And I'll admit to being overdramatic about its healing capacity. Though it does feel limited, I do think SCH has a good healing. It just doesn't bring anything different to the table, and less so when Expedience gets nerfed.

Just appreciate this for the lulz
Before EW people memed Expedience, SCH dead guys game over man game over!

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*4 months later*

SCH is too good we gotta nerf Expedience

Honestly though would be nice if they left the speed at 20s at least, or is sprint overpowered now?

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'm trying to figure out what weird situation caused them to nerf it. As far as I'm aware, no mechanic was being trivialized because Scholoton lasted too long. Maybe someone in one of the devs' raid teams ran into a wall because they forgot they had sprint speed and nerfed it because any inconvenience healers cause DPS, no matter how small, must be immediately removed?

It'd explain why the speed duration went down and not, oh, I don't know, Macrocosmos deleting an entire heal check mechanic.

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The answer seems pretty obvious. Pinax and Act 2. 20 seconds of sprint covered majority of both. It would also explain why the nerf was specifically to duration. The movement heavy part comes in the later half of both mechanics.

M-m-maybe they nerf’ed the sprint because I forced too many tanks in Expert Roulette to sprint against their will… :(

20 seconds of sprint is far too much to tune around, it sucks to have to push it back but this should happen now before it can become a problem. Movement is the most powerful ability in most video games and it's more powerful than most here.

They could compensate by letting you use it while casting though, IMO. I would be happy with that. Out of combat being 20 seconds is fine too.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'd mind that finger twitching on the monkey's paw. Scholar is boring and competitive. You could be boring and weak, like WHM.

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Sad but true. Though the competitiveness of SCH rn will only indicate to the devs that people are happy/content with SCH.

But at least it's not rotting like WHM. No real change to design, GCD healing focused but punished with MP issues.

SCH and WHM are suffering badly from the aging designs they had starting out.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

M-m-maybe they nerf’ed the sprint because I forced too many tanks in Expert Roulette to sprint against their will… :(

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Making a tank sprint AND mitigate?

Calm down, Satan.

I still don't know how I feel about the 10s nerf. It seems to go against their healer design of catering to the lowest denominator. I'm happy to see this, it's just weird.. but then again when have their changes made any sense?

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I still don't know how I feel about the 10s nerf. It seems to go against their healer design of catering to the lowest denominator. I'm happy to see this, it's just weird.. but then again when have their changes made any sense?

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I mean they did this when they ruined Thin Air too. They want healing to be easy, yet they also gutted the weakest healer's greatest asset. Not to mention that weakest healer is meant to be the token healer for inexperienced players.

My honest belief is that they have a very shallow understanding of how healers actually play both at a high skill range and a low skill range, but don't understand enough to be able to break down what healer gameplay is actually like and what makes the role easier or harder. Of all the things they've done to make healing "easier," the only part that I think was actually successful for the low skill range of healers was the removal of Cleric Stance. Everything else actually doesn't really affect the experience that new or learning healers have.

I have seen low skill healers in action. I know how they approach healing. I remember how I used to heal back in the old days when I was a shitty healer. Low skill healers rely heavily on GCD healing like Cure/Cure II, Medica, and the like, but these are not good healing tools. They chew through your MP, cost you damage, and don't even heal very much. My friend who's a very casual player that likes Scholar started EW recently, and when going through Tower of Zot, she would very quickly resort to Physick spamming on the tank to try and keep them alive during big pulls which failed because Physick is useless and doesn't heal for shit. She did no DPS at all and still the tank died. Half her cooldowns were still available, and she couldn't even remember that Emergency Tactics was a thing.

There's also a lot of pressure on healers to get mechanics down right because if they die, that's often a run-ender since only 2 other jobs in the game can revive a healer in 4-man content.

If you really want to make healing easier for low-skill players, basic GCD healing should be cheaper, faster, and more powerful. This will never make these GCD heals optimal because you still lose damage when using them, so skilled players will still ignore them so long as that level of healing isn't required, but low skill players would have far stronger clutch heals to keep their heads above the water. You would additionally want to introduce more ways that healers can be revived. Make Phoenix Downs usable in battle with a 5 minute CD or something, and make them cheap and stackable. Or add something like the Revive role action for tanks or something which could have a long cooldown as an OGCD revive. Buff the tools they are quick to rely on rather than give them more tools they're likely to forget in a high stress situation.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I still don't know how I feel about the 10s nerf. It seems to go against their healer design of catering to the lowest denominator. I'm happy to see this, it's just weird.. but then again when have their changes made any sense?

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Can't have anything on SCH that Sage doesn't have clearly.

Why did it get targeted? Oh, I think it's rather simple after thinking about it a bit. It's certainly not game-breaking any mechanic like a particular other job currently does for a particular mechanic.

But it sure as hell is visible and noticeable. Particularly to a development team of DPS players and tanks who would pay extremely little attention to how-the-healing-is-being-done but would see how much faster they're getting in range. Watching people in P4s with expedient or, hell, being on the testing team itself - I can imagine it. Letting Yoshi-P's BLM move quicker.

"Wow this is so cool and so much easier for me to do my stuff!!!!"
"Hmmm we gotta tone that down, I felt way more powerful cause of it..."

Never you mind all the glaring issues we've all talked about at length. The 1 button spam. The MP. Dissipation. Seraph. GCD heals. Just. Everything. That involves looking at the issues as healers experience them, and we can't have that now can we?

Probably the same reason people can see a WHM spamming PI Cure 3 through a mechanic and go "Whoa that's super powerful!" while the WHM is crying and dying inside. The sprint is simply noticeable to developers of all skill and awareness levels, so they perceive it as crazy stupid strong...regardless of whether it actually is.

That's my best guess.

I think it is hilarious the one little thing Scholars got for the expansion is being nerfed. It seems silly.

it probably something to do with ultimate
but not like this nerf gonna harm SCH in anyway its still a very strong ability.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

it probably something to do with ultimate
but not like this nerf gonna harm SCH in anyway its still a very strong ability.

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Is it gonna harm SCH? Probably not.


But if I still played SCH then seeing one of the only 2 interesting skills that I got for this expansion get nerfed by 50% sure wouldn't make me feel great about my job.

I wouldn't bother trying to make sense of why this was nerfed. I'm almost certain it's a random darts-at-dartboard change, like the majority of class changes and reworks they do.

Their reason is probably something nonsense like "we don't want dungeons cleared too fast" or "we wanted faster movement speed to be phys ranged exclusive". Trying to draw logic from this is futile. The devs do not follow logic.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

M-m-maybe they nerf’ed the sprint because I forced too many tanks in Expert Roulette to sprint against their will… :(

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Those tanks deserved it for all the “healers adjust” memes.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

it probably something to do with ultimate
but not like this nerf gonna harm SCH in anyway its still a very strong ability.

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I disagree. I didn’t just write this post out of my own opinion, but as a conclusion I came to after reading many opinions on the topic of this ability from its first reveal to after the most recent Live Letter. I concluded that the 20 secs of sprint was what made the ability special and what made scholar unique in raid scenarios. Without it being as long, it’s no different from “everyone press sprint now” with less effort. And even if it has something to do with the Ultimate, it rarely stopped the devs before to have an ability that makes a mechanic easier to do or entirely ignored. It’s unjust that it should be targeted.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Their reason is probably something nonsense like "we don't want dungeons cleared too fast" or "we wanted faster movement speed to be phys ranged exclusive". Trying to draw logic from this is futile. The devs do not follow logic.

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If they wanted faster movement speed to be phys ranged exclusive, they would’ve given expedience to them in the first place because they were the ones that wanted in combat movement speed increase tool. One of the many arguments I saw against Expedient was that it should’ve been a phys ranged ability. So really SE nerfing it for that reason is contrary to why they gave it to scholar in the first place.

Initially, I was shocked. Then I remembered they nerfed Thin Air, so now I'm not shocked, anymore.

Extremely disappointing choice.
One of the best cool and unique thing of this expansion for healers = nerf.

Please dev team...

Dev's decisions (mainly healer part) are not from the feedbacks from players

They do whatever they feel is right.

They do not play as healers for sure.

They also don't want to put budget into the healer design because healers are not as cool as melees. Cannot bring them profits by attracting new players to play this game. (in their eyes) that's why all the cg trailer has to be a non-mage job as the main character.

I think the nerf has nothing to do with the speed bonus, but rather everything to do with having a 20 second 10% DR.

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Originally Posted by D6Damager

I think the nerf has nothing to do with the speed bonus, but rather everything to do with having a 20 second 10% DR.

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You would think wrong because mitigation part of Expedient remains entirely unchanged.

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Originally Posted by D6Damager

I think the nerf has nothing to do with the speed bonus, but rather everything to do with having a 20 second 10% DR.

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They aren't nerfing the Desperate Measures time though, only Expedience. Also Holos is also a 20s 10% DR and it's not like that's getting changed.

And while we are here, it honestly feels like SCH got nothing in return for the nerf. The radius changes are nice, not much changed outside of that.

Movement speed is extremely powerful I honestly don't know why Expedience got a green light in the first place.

It was arguably the strongest 90 healer skill, if not the strongest 90 skill in the game. 10 seconds still allows you to easily resolve most mechanics that benefitted from the sprint. 20 was overkill.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_

Scholars were having a little too much fun with their one and only interesting ability, so the devs had to tone it down a bit just to remind scholars of their place.

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I read this and it reminded me of the movie 'Tangled'. Rapunzel was like a gorilla out of the cage outside the confines of the castle, and Expedient definitely felt like some length was added to the short leash. Then the devs clotheslined SCH mid-hop while going to catch an airborne frisbee, and well....

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https://i.imgur.com/3bJiCaF.jpg

I know why it got nerfed ...

Expediant gave 20sec of sprint which is insane btw, it allows more "slide" casting and insane movement to keep dps going and it also allows u to do mechanics effortlessly

The problem with expediant that the "sprint" aspect was too strong when u use "sprint" cool down right after it resulting in a 30second sprint bonus which made movement mechanics trivial due to insane movement

I remember the days where sprint use to last alot longer but they decided to reduce that to 10 seconds in combat because it was pretty strong movement skill

Reality is ..movement speed is the BEST mitigation skill in the entire game cause it gets u out of "bad" quicker instead of being "clipped" due to being to slow to move out of mechanics

What makes it more op...is in cities

Fc buff for spring duration up
Strider boots from eureka
Then press expediant once that duration of sprint up

Boom ur sonic for legit 1min in cities "gasp"

(Woops time to prevent expediant out of combat now)

The ironic thing about this change is the scholar players' emergency tactics for the nerf. This is desperate measures level of "complaints" about the nerf. Imagine going into the forums to justify a 20 second duration partywide sprint.

Sprint aside. 10 seconds Expedience is meager, maybe enough to do 1-2 mechanics. But 20 seconds of sprint is a window that can cover a lot of conventional mechanics.
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Scholar easily became the centerpiece of every group in the past expansions, it has seen nerfs since it was released in ARR. Expedience alone can decide the party composition, and the other healersjobs do not have expedience lol... Desperate Measures is still 20 seconds, what's the problem??

I'm on team "they nerfed it for ultimate". Reminds me of Selene losing her dispell right before TEA. If that's a correct statement, I'm going to assume a lot of mechanic gauntlets again, like TEA.

Honestly, this change really only hurts the lower-mid end of the skill tiers. Higher-end players either won't care because they didn't rely on it much or will easily adjust to the tighter window.

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Originally Posted by Raim

It was arguably the strongest 90 healer skill, if not the strongest 90 skill in the game. 10 seconds still allows you to easily resolve most mechanics that benefitted from the sprint. 20 was overkill.

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We're comparing it to Sage Pneuma and Astro Macrocosmos and I'm definitely not seeing how it's the strongest skill in the game or even just among healers. The sprint can kill people who aren't careful of hazards and has no effect if people don't choose to move from inattention. It was just fun to have and did no actual healing. It certainly isn't Lilybell.