Job action combos one button

Do you think we will see the day where our rotation for combos will be just one button instead of 3-4? I think it would be a blessing and cut down on the hotbar bloat that we are getting for skills. What are your opinions on it?

*Looks at the healer gameplay and the huge threads and complaints about one button DPS "rotation" being boring and un-engaging with 1-1-1-1 button spam until something changes*

Don't think so.

Button bloat being cut down is definitely a blessing. 1 button DPS rotation being the only thing available definitely isn't.

Don't see it happening, its part of the core identity. They would need to add back in for all of those empty slots, they might just do it like bard and just have it a filler. What they will do is strip more low level skills for higher level skills and make some of those just direct upgrades with more flashy animations

If it happens and it's not optional I'd honestly quit. That would be the last straw in the constant dumbing down of the game for me.

Goodness no. That'd be awful especially when lots of people feel like their entire toolkit has no need to be utilized currently

I'm out of easy reached keys as is. I know I could better utilize my off gcd ability if I wasn't having to find my mouse cruiser only to click there set to alt or ctl

I would like it as an option. Certainly makes hotkeying stuff in PvP much easier.

It would be nice for a job like gunbreaker with a ton of oGCD bloat. Won’t work with something like Monk. Some jobs would get boring as hell too. Wouldn’t mind a one button melee combo on RDM to cut button bloat a hair.

Yeah the PvE community should have to suffer like the PvPers

I'll admit, if the "combos" are literally going to be "1-2-3" combos as most of them currently are, then I'd say they should be condensed just like in PvP.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing them do something more akin to the old (ARR) Monk combos. You GENERALLY used "1-2-3" then "4-5-6", however if you were REALLY skilled, there would be times you might deviate, because each part of the combo had a specific EFFECT.

So there might be times you hit 4-2-3 or 1-5-3, or any combination. You could totally get by just doing the two standard combos, but it gave the high-skill players a means to differentiate themselves.

Meanwhile, my DRK pretty much just spams a basic single-target combo, or occasionally an AoE combo. I'd happily condense those into just two buttons.

I think it might eventually find its way in. XIV follows a vertical progression with each level tier, and there's only so many new rotational keys you can add before having to get the job through a rework.

Some people say it dumbs thing down and makes jobs 1 button spammers, however it's not as simple as that... Some jobs are indeed very simple and can go without this feature, like Machinist or Summoner if it was a combo job.

Other jobs, though, are already near the limit of how much you can add before it becomes way too busy, like Dragoon. Those indeed could benefit from a consolidated combo to free up a few binds for new things. They did this with Gunbreaker's cartridge combo and the job suddenly feels much better to play without losing any depth.

I personally don't see a lot of difference in pressing the same key 3x than pressing a sequence of 3 keys that are always bound right next to each other. They are still different actions being pressed.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I personally don't see a lot of difference in pressing the same key 3x than pressing a sequence of 3 keys that are always bound right next to each other. They are still different actions being pressed.

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Considering Yoshida all but said he thinks difficulty comes from encounter design over job design (when he was asked about healers one button rotation), I would agree this is SEs philosophy. We get to play with combos because SE had buttons to fill up, and didn't have anything else to put there. I can definitely see a time in the future where we move from 1-2-3 combos and follow a more CD-centric snapshotting groove.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

Do you think we will see the day where our rotation for combos will be just one button instead of 3-4? I think it would be a blessing and cut down on the hotbar bloat that we are getting for skills. What are your opinions on it?

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Go back through the 3000+ threads in this forum and you’ll find a good 100 of them or more have asked this question and been shot down. It’s unwanted, unneeded and would simply ruin what makes FFs rotations what they are.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I think it might eventually find its way in. XIV follows a vertical progression with each level tier, and there's only so many new rotational keys you can add before having to get the job through a rework.

Some people say it dumbs thing down and makes jobs 1 button spammers, however it's not as simple as that... Some jobs are indeed very simple and can go without this feature, like Machinist or Summoner if it was a combo job.

Other jobs, though, are already near the limit of how much you can add before it becomes way too busy, like Dragoon. Those indeed could benefit from a consolidated combo to free up a few binds for new things. They did this with Gunbreaker's cartridge combo and the job suddenly feels much better to play without losing any depth.

I personally don't see a lot of difference in pressing the same key 3x than pressing a sequence of 3 keys that are always bound right next to each other. They are still different actions being pressed.

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The difference is simple. You can accidentally press the wrong button in your combo. Yeah, it’s rare and yeah it’s a stupid thing to do but it can be done. Removing it would make that mistake never happen. Another move towards making FF too simplistic and boring. The opposite of what people want

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

The difference is simple. You can accidentally press the wrong button in your combo. Yeah, it’s rare and yeah it’s a stupid thing to do but it can be done. Removing it would make that mistake never happen. Another move towards making FF too simplistic and boring. The opposite of what people want

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At this day, it's VERY hard to break combo. Removing the chance of a mistake that hardly takes place unless you're trolling is completely inconsecuential and, in the jobs where it's more likely the happen, the one button combo would be impossible to introduce without altering the job's gameplay (PLD, DRG, SAM and MNK). Not to mention OP's scenario already exists and is still liable to break (GNB GF combo).

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

The difference is simple. You can accidentally press the wrong button in your combo. Yeah, it’s rare and yeah it’s a stupid thing to do but it can be done. Removing it would make that mistake never happen. Another move towards making FF too simplistic and boring. The opposite of what people want

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yeah Im pretty sure its because of that one potential mess up being the sole thread that keeps certain combo heavy jobs interesting and entertaining. Yup...

No...its really not because of that. What makes classes like Monk and Samurai fun is that they have branching paths in their combo rotation that extends different button presses. Which is what I see a lot of people complain whenever they bring up the oh so clever 11111111 rotation.

I agree with the previous poster, its not the complete end of the world as we'll eventually see more skills and buttons added in future updates for jobs that will bring back some bit of complexity before they trim them down a bit such as with Gunbreaker and its Continuation button.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

The difference is simple. You can accidentally press the wrong button in your combo. Yeah, it’s rare and yeah it’s a stupid thing to do but it can be done. Removing it would make that mistake never happen. Another move towards making FF too simplistic and boring. The opposite of what people want

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Like you said... it's rare, so what weight that bears?

I think the gains in complexity of having more available keybinds for other kinds of actions overshadow this minimal complexity losses in having the pvp combos by default for pve.

Agree with cutting down bloat, but no auto-combo please.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

Agree with cutting down bloat, but no auto-combo please.

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They removed nearly every bloated action by now, everything we have and used in a rotational basis is useful... There's no bloat to cut anymore.

People equating having 3-4 buttons taken up where one would do with difficulty is amusing. You aren't losing difficulty by having a button cycle through the individual combo components; you still have to do your positionals. It also doesn't eliminate the large number of oGCD abilities most jobs have, so that remains intact.

Personally, I would like to see the combos put on one button and the newly empty slots filled with even more oGCD abilities. Or, if not that, uncomboed abilities like DRK's old dot.

Why have combos to begin with if they're all gonna be the same button? Might as well just have a single spammable attack and that's it. Healers love it! /s

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

Do you think we will see the day where our rotation for combos will be just one button instead of 3-4? I think it would be a blessing and cut down on the hotbar bloat that we are getting for skills. What are your opinions on it?

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I mean, the game is heading toward a single-player experience. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

I can already promise you, it'll actually make me play worse. Case and point: BRD. BRD is just 1 1 1 1 1 1, and sometimes you get that 2 proc, but it's not confirmed. What ends up happening when I play BRD? It takes me forever to realize I have said proc because I've pressed 1 so many times by this point that I've literally being numbed into it, there by not really having any stimulation to continue to 2 anymore.

I'm really not joking, and I know I'm not alone on that. I already absolutely hate the fact that BRD and all healers play a 1 button rotation style for 99% of their key presses. If you made that for every job, I would just be incapable of playing them because I just couldn't keep attention on anymore, which would mean I'd just end up not using those new off globals anyways which results in the point being completely gone for me.

If you're desperate enough to really need them, I'm pretty sure there's resources people have pointed out exist already, just it'd be ToS breaking (though, how will they know right?) but it'd solve all your wonderful problems. I'd rather stick to my usual method, that at least lets me keep the smallest of attention.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

They removed nearly every bloated action by now, everything we have and used in a rotational basis is useful... There's no bloat to cut anymore.

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There are still a lot of actions that can be consolidated that aren't weaponskill combos.

• AST Draw + Redraw or Draw + Play
• AST Minor Arcana + Crown Play
• BLM Leylines + Between the Lines
• BLM Freeze + Flare
• BLM Blizzard IV + Fire IV
• BLM Despair + Umbral Soul
• BRD The Wanderer's Minuet + Pitch Perfect
• DNC Flourish + Fan Dance IV
• DNC Devilment + Starfall Dance
• DRG Jump + Mirage Dive
• PLD Sheltron + Intervention: Essentially same ability with different target
• MCH Hypercharge + Heat Blast
• MNK Perfect Balance + Masterful Blitz
• NIN Hide + Trick Attack
• PLD Requiescat + Confiteor
• RPR Arcane Circle + Plentiful Harvest
• RPR Enshroud + Communio
• SMN Summon Carbuncle + Radiant Aegis
• SMN Energy Drain + Ruin IV
• SMN Energy Siphon + Ruin IV
• WAR Inner Release + Primal Rend
• WAR Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting + Nascent Flash: Essentially same ability with different target

Additionally, WHM would benefit from consolidating Cure II + Afflatus Solace and Medica + Afflatus Rapture, since Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture are exactly just free+instant Cure II and free+instant Medica.

Worth mentioning is, just because an ability is used, that doesn't mean I think it's justified. This game has a bunch of buttons where you have a ST button, then an alternative AOE button, and that's fine. For CDs 30sec or less I do think having to think about whether or not to use it is OK. Then I look at something like SAM where we have a 2m CD with a ST and AOE version. At that point I rather just have a ST version that cleaves. There is also stuff like Cure 1, Medica 1, and AST equivalents, where yeah there are environments Cure 1 and Medica 1 are merited but I rather they just tweak the abilities to make them upgrades. You can make Cure 2 just have the cast time and MP economy of Cure 1 and it will be fine. Having to use a GCD heal at all is punishment enough.

We've built up a narrative of "depth" for having to hit up to 7 buttons for a single separable decision; where would all that "depth" go if we stopped wasting meaningfully using those 6 buttons on traps that only really affect those with motor skill issues or the occasional spike of hand-flinching panic?

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Personally, I would like to see the combos put on one button and the newly empty slots filled with even more oGCD abilities. Or, if not that, uncomboed abilities like DRK's old dot.

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As something to mention, alot of jobs (looking mainly at DPS here) already have alot of oGCDs to fit into every burst window, adding too many more would start to cause them to drift outside the burst window just because you have no more weave slots to use. Just something to keep in mind.

The Dev team also done away with most standalone DoTs since SB, Touch of Death, Mutilate, Fracture, Phlebotomise, Shadow Fang, Lead Shot, Scourge etc. So would it be wise to add them back in? especially since I can see alot of them just getting in the way with current jobs, Touch of Death on Monk could get in the way of Masterful Blitz, Mutilate/Shadow Fang, Ninja already has so much to fit into the TA window, I really do not think that adding another thing is going to help etc. Don't get me wrong, some additions would be nice, like Scourge back on DRK, but again, you also have to take into account whether it would mess up the job flow and just get in the way.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

There are still a lot of actions that can be consolidated that aren't weaponskill combos.

• AST Draw + Redraw or Draw + Play
• AST Minor Arcana + Crown Play
• BLM Leylines + Between the Lines
• BLM Freeze + Flare
• BLM Blizzard IV + Fire IV
• BLM Despair + Umbral Soul
• BRD The Wanderer's Minuet + Pitch Perfect
• DNC Flourish + Fan Dance IV
• DNC Devilment + Starfall Dance
• DRG Jump + Mirage Dive
• PLD Sheltron + Intervention: Essentially same ability with different target
• MCH Hypercharge + Heat Blast
• MNK Perfect Balance + Masterful Blitz
• NIN Hide + Trick Attack
• PLD Requiescat + Confiteor
• RPR Arcane Circle + Plentiful Harvest
• RPR Enshroud + Communio
• SMN Summon Carbuncle + Radiant Aegis
• SMN Energy Drain + Ruin IV
• SMN Energy Siphon + Ruin IV
• WAR Inner Release + Primal Rend
• WAR Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting + Nascent Flash: Essentially same ability with different target

Additionally, WHM would benefit from consolidating Cure II + Afflatus Solace and Medica + Afflatus Rapture, since Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture are exactly just free+instant Cure II and free+instant Medica.

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Ah, I agree with the list! It makes sense, because isn't actually removing actions but condensing them in a similar way the combos would be as per the OP suggestion.

My statement was more akin to removing actions that won't add anything to the gameplay other than just a button to press with zero depth behind.

Edit: Summon Carbuncle... That is something that I don't consider bloat itself because technically you never have to press it unless you die, but damn I'd love to see that just turned into a cosmetic spell because it is annoying as heck to have the utility unavailable most of the time because there's another summon going on.

God I hope not.
It is the absolute worst design.

Every time I play White Mage now I just die a little on the inside. Single button gameplay is not fun.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

God I hope not.
It is the absolute worst design.

Every time I play White Mage now I just die a little on the inside. Single button gameplay is not fun.

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"Single button" does not necessarily encapsulate "single action".
Healers are both.
PvP combos, Gnashing Fang, Continuation, and the like, are only the first.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Additionally, WHM would benefit from consolidating Cure II + Afflatus Solace and Medica + Afflatus Rapture, since Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture are exactly just free+instant Cure II and free+instant Medica.

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That one wouldn't work because the Afflatus skills need lilies so you're hamstringing us when we're out of them.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

That one wouldn't work because the Afflatus skills need lilies so you're hamstringing us when we're out of them.

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It would be like if you have a lilly it would make medica/cure 2 instant rather then outright get rid of them. I made the suggestion a while back cause I would never use cure 2 or medica when I have a lilly.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

"Single button" does not necessarily encapsulate "single action".
Healers are both.
PvP combos, Gnashing Fang, Continuation, and the like, are only the first.

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That does however require SE to actually add new actions/combos when they consolidate our 1-2-3 into a single button, something that is absolutely not guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That does however require SE to actually add new actions/combos when they consolidate our 1-2-3 into a single button, something that is absolutely not guaranteed.

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No, it just requires that they don't reduce the number of actions or their technical affordances. It doesn't require that DRG, for instance, suddenly get 7 ST and 3 AoE combos.

If there is never any point at which it's worth restarting, or rushing ahead in, a particular combo, then turning it into a single button will cost no affordance.

Well yes, we're already living that life on the PC world of plugins and it's great for those who want it.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'll admit, if the "combos" are literally going to be "1-2-3" combos as most of them currently are, then I'd say they should be condensed just like in PvP.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing them do something more akin to the old (ARR) Monk combos. You GENERALLY used "1-2-3" then "4-5-6", however if you were REALLY skilled, there would be times you might deviate, because each part of the combo had a specific EFFECT.

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You mean, a real combo, where independent decisions can... combine synergistically, instead of simply having all but one choice per combo locked out in any given GCD? You madman, you.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

That one wouldn't work because the Afflatus skills need lilies so you're hamstringing us when we're out of them.

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No, it would be like any action that changes to another action while under some effect. Just to pick something off the top of my head, when RDM has 20|20 gauge the action Moulinet upgrades to Enchanted Moulinet. WHM could easily be changed so that when you have one or more lilies, Cure II is upgraded to Afflatus Solace and Medica is upgraded to Afflatus Rapture.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Edit: Summon Carbuncle... That is something that I don't consider bloat itself because technically you never have to press it unless you die

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...but in what way is that not bloat? There is a button on your bar, that you never press but once per life; and you have another button that you can use often but not at all until you first press that one button that you only press once and then never touch again. Why wouldn't you want to make the button that you press once and never touch again change into the other button that can't be used unless you've pressed it?

(Yes, I know, SMN already doesn't have many buttons; however, it can be true that SMN doesn't have very many buttons and simultaneously also they still have buttons that can be reasonably consolidated because one is locked behind the other.)

This again.. Some jobs barely have any buttons, so just play those. If you're not going to make an attempt into getting to know a job, don't ask to make them easier >_>

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

This again.. Some jobs barely have any buttons, so just play those. If you're not going to make an attempt into getting to know a job, don't ask to make them easier >_>

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Because hitting 2 after 1 and before 3 was ever so difficult and engaging a mechanic as to be worth losing n-1 buttons per combo, and whatever actual complexity could have filled that space, for?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

No, it would be like any action that changes to another action while under some effect. Just to pick something off the top of my head, when RDM has 20|20 gauge the action Moulinet upgrades to Enchanted Moulinet. WHM could easily be changed so that when you have one or more lilies, Cure II is upgraded to Afflatus Solace and Medica is upgraded to Afflatus Rapture.

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This, on the other hand, would cost WHM some actual functionality. Want to save mobility for the likes of O4S Black Hole mechanic? Too bad; you're forced to burn lilies before you can again access your basic heals. Want that handy weave-space for later? Nope. Gotta use it now or be locked out of basic heals.

There are ways to, without adding button cost, still consume those opportunities only when one wants to, but simply hot-swapping a spell that provides more than mere MP efficiency over a basic capacity (thereby making its affordances impossible to bank) is not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

"Single button" does not necessarily encapsulate "single action".
Healers are both.
PvP combos, Gnashing Fang, Continuation, and the like, are only the first.

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PvP too was also more engaging on the gameplay level before they did this.