Open World elements in FF14

FF14's open world does not encourage, incentivize, or reward exploration. Other than sightseeing logs, which give measly rewards if you actually organically explored rather than following a guide, there's almost next to no point in exploring the world.

Furthermore in Endwalker most of the zones, bar Garlemald, are really just a linear corridor disguised as a zone. You can most clearly see this in Ultima Thule. The entire zone is a linear corridor designed for the story. Now I don't mind this if only one zone is like this but Labyrinthos is also a linear corridor. Thavnair is a linear corridor for the west half of the MSQ. Only Garlemald felt like a zone where you can actually stretch your legs and explore - and that's what I've done when I played through the MSQ and found all the aether currents without a compass.

Exploration should be a big feature during the MSQ as you get to learn the lore of the land. I suggest:

1. Put hidden stories and sidequests throughout the zone that can only be seen when you are close. These quests should reward XP, coffers and gil similar to a MSQ quests, and give more lore and information about the zone.

2. Sightseeing log incentives should be increased and be accessible on foot. This allows players to organically find the sightseeing logs while going through the MSQ, and exploration before you unlock flying is always far better and more interesting.
I suggest giving players 2 coffers once they finish all sightseeing logs in the zone.

3. Zones should be far more fleshed out. ARR zones are compact - closed and bounded. Compact doesn't just mean small. It also implies density. There is so much life to be found in ARR zones - like the cabin that in Upper La Noscea that makes you wonder whose it is, and allow you to go in to explore. Zones shouldn't be purely open world aesthetically. There should also be thematic switches - little caves, cabins, etc. for you to look at. It's disappointing that so many rooms in Elpis and Labyrinthos are inaccessible. Making them accessible will help with immersion and exploration. Put interactable books that provide little lore details in these hidden corners of the world.

Yoshi's team can't design openworld content. Not a hot take, a fact

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Originally Posted by Skiros

FF14's open world does not encourage, incentivize, or reward exploration. Other than sightseeing logs, which give measly rewards if you actually organically explored rather than following a guide, there's almost next to no point in exploring the world.

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1. Daily hunt bills take you all over the map.
2. Finding your weekly mark takes you all over the map.
3. Scouting A ranks takes you all over the map.
4. Spawning S ranks takes you all over the map depending on the condition.
5. Fate farming takes you all over the map.
6. Sight seeing log as you mentioned takes you all over the map.
7. Side quests take you all over the place as well.
8. Gathering takes you to a number of gathering points around the map.
9. Treasure maps take you all over the map depending on where the X is.

All of these things are popular and done by many people.

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1. Put hidden stories and sidequests throughout the zone that can only be seen when you are close. These quests should reward XP, coffers and gil similar to a MSQ quests, and give more lore and information about the zone.

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FATEs are supposed to do this and some of them used to only be seen when you were close to them, but the problem is that nobody activated them because they were unaware of them.

I've seen open world be used in a few games, both well and not so well. In elden ring for example I feel like the world is very dense on top of being large. It never feels like there are big spaces that are there for nothing other than increasing the size. This does lead to me getting easily side tracked. In warframe on the other hand the open world maps have almost nothing in them, almost everything is just placeholder for randomly generated mission steps.

FF14 falls somewhere in the middle of that. I dont think maps being "corridors" is inherently bad, it only becomes bad when the density of things to do is lacking. Many activities we do in the open world are "fly from the aetheryte to your destination". That being said I do think there are a few things already that can give the maps life: msq obviously, aether current quests, beast tribe dailies. I'd love to say fates there aswell but fates arent really doing it for me.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

1. Daily hunt bills take you all over the map.
2. Finding your weekly mark takes you all over the map.
3. Scouting A ranks takes you all over the map.
4. Spawning S ranks takes you all over the map depending on the condition.
5. Fate farming takes you all over the map.
6. Sight seeing log as you mentioned takes you all over the map.
7. Side quests take you all over the place as well.
8. Gathering takes you to a number of gathering points around the map.
9. Treasure maps take you all over the map depending on where the X is.

All of these things are popular and done by many people.

FATEs are supposed to do this and some of them used to only be seen when you were close to them, but the problem is that nobody activated them because they were unaware of them.

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Exploration =/= going all over the map. Please get better at reading comprehension. The only thing that actually resembles exploration is the sightseeing log because some of them are in hidden nooks and crannies. Flying around the map is not exploration:

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Many activities we do in the open world are "fly from the aetheryte to your destination".

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Exactly. One of the biggest reasons why the earlier zones of Eureka felt explorable is because you can't fly.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Exploration =/= going all over the map. Please get better at reading comprehension. The only thing that actually resembles exploration is the sightseeing log because some of them are in hidden nooks and crannies. Flying around the map is not exploration:

Exactly. One of the biggest reasons why the earlier zones of Eureka felt explorable is because you can't fly.

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Finding B, A or S marks is not "fly to a specific destination" because you don't know which spawn point it's at. Treasure maps can involve looking in nooks and crannies because you are figuring out where the exact X is from a vague, zoomed in picture of the map and it can involve several dig attempts. Gathering isn't done at any specific location because they are dotted all around the place so you get to explore and gather where you please.

I do personally feel satisfied that I have been everywhere on the map once I have done all of the quests including the sidequests and job quests. The cabin in Outer La Noscea is used in job quests and so is the cabin in The Fringes. This is the sort of game where everything has a purpose or a quest it's used for. I would like if that wasn't how it is but like everything the maps are designed around the stories or at least there is no part of the map they don't use for them.

As well as sightseeing there's also:
Side quests
Hunts
FATEs and their chains, plus the super FATEs.
Gathering
Treasure Maps

There's plenty of open world content to do. You just don't want to do it.
Anything else they add in, you also won't want to do. Because no matter what it is, it won't give endgame gear or be an optimal source of tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Finding B, A or S marks is not "fly to a specific destination" because you don't know which spawn point it's at. Treasure maps can involve looking in nooks and crannies because you are figuring out where the exact X is from a vague, zoomed in picture of the map and it can involve several dig attempts. Gathering isn't done at any specific location because they are dotted all around the place so you get to explore and gather where you please.

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- Hunt marks: Locations are very much publicly available and in hunt trains you're literally provided coordinates of where to go. Hell, when EW started people were shouting mark locations to help out others and make finding them easier.

- Treasure Maps: Same thing as above, locations are easily found and you really don't have to put a ton of brain power into it.

- Gathering: The gathering log exists and shows you exactly where to go depending on what you're looking for. There's no exploring needed.

I get your point of what you're trying to say but I wouldn't classify things that the game obviously points you to as exploration.

Hunts are interesting in that they are one of two truly "open world" pieces of content in the over world, but the community put a structure over it, creating a system of reporting and hunt trains.

Same thing with Eureka, actually. I imagine the intended play pattern was for players to group up and find a place to level, dealing with whatever shenanigans happen as they come, whether they are weather changes or NM spawning. The community put a structure on this too, creating NM trains.

Note I have a specific definition for "open"; I contrast it against "instanced" - the former invites interaction with otherwise uninvoled players, the latter denies it. Gil is open, tomestones are instanced. FATEs are open, treasure maps are instanced. Quests are instanced, and your recommendations are all variations of questing, making it less accessible by removing signposts in order to facilitate wandering the map.

I believe the team wants their lore to be accessible and easily found if you want it; it's why 8 man raids have normal modes now, after all. Plus the fact that we live in a world where the inter is ubiquitous is also important. Regardless of their value, these may be the reasons why they wouldn't want to do what you ask. After all, back in ARR, sightseeing logs were unmarked on the map, and they made the conscious decision to move away from that design.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Yes it is. You fly to specific spawn points to check whether they are there. That's literally flying to specific destinations.

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The same could be said of the aether currents which you praised. Just like you didn't look at a map of where the aether currents are, you can not look at a map of spawn points.

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You literally look up a map and use your minimap to look at the nodes. And if you don't know where it is, you use Triangulate and just fly in that direction.

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I've not found any of these things necessary because the nodes show up in plain sight as I move around the rocks and hills.

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Furthermore, I hope you realize that "exploration" implies that those details in the world have stories and lore attached to them. Otherwise it's not called exploration, it's pure padding.

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So your definition of exploration is that there must be story and lore attached to it beyond that implied from just looking at ruins and ancient rubble. Well none of the content I listed does that or not in the way that you want it.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

- Hunt marks: Locations are very much publicly available and in hunt trains you're literally provided coordinates of where to go. Hell, when EW started people were shouting mark locations to help out others and make finding them easier.

- Treasure Maps: Same thing as above, locations are easily found and you really don't have to put a ton of brain power into it.

- Gathering: The gathering log exists and shows you exactly where to go depending on what you're looking for. There's no exploring needed.

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The same could be said of the sightseeing log and aether currents. Looking up the locations is spoiling yourself and no matter what "exploration" content gets added, you will always be able to spoil yourself by looking up the coordinates on the internet.

I definitely agree with point No. 3. Garlemald in particular is a big disappointment to me when this big empire that's been the bane of Eorzea in the few expansions it was a threat for turned out to become a small, ruined city. Nothing grandeur other then the tower poking up right in the middle of it. I was hoping for more then just a filler zone, like it would be cool to explore a little more then what's already right in front of your eyes.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

FF14's open world does not encourage, incentivize, or reward exploration. Other than sightseeing logs, which give measly rewards if you actually organically explored rather than following a guide, there's almost next to no point in exploring the world.
...
Exploration should be a big feature during the MSQ as you get to learn the lore of the land.

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Your ideas are based on the premise that an 'Exploration' activity would not be reduced to following a guide for the rewards you've suggested. Any activity in-game has multiple guides, video and text, before the first month of an expansion has passed.

I 'explore' the world in an organic fashion while leveling through the zones. The MSQ provides access to the world in general. The side-quests provide access to those places whose existence comes as a nice surprise. I go back to places I've discovered and do other things (mostly involving gshade screenshots and commentary on tumblr and twitter).

You are under the mistaken idea that everything you do in-game should be rewarded with loot. And yes, I've played That Other Game where there was an achievement for reading almost every 'interactive book'. There was also an achievement for exploring every corner of the map. And one for completing every single in-game quest, on both sides. Everybody used guides to get those achievements, as it was extremely difficult to figure out what you missed in order to complete them.

Final Fantasy isnt a open world mmo its a theme park mmo get ur facts straight

I love exploration in open world games and I've noticed it's an area where FFXIV is weak. We don't have much in the way of content that encourages players to wander around just to see if they find, for example, a small loot cache, an npc with a quest, or a bit of lore. Things minor enough to have well randomized locations without inciting too much ire, but fun to find. Everything available currently is very streamlined and specific. For me the fun isn't necessarily in finding something that was extremely difficult to locate, but in checking all the books and crannies for a "surprise" find.

Personally, I don't think Final Fantasy designers are fans of exploration type content because FFXI (during the time I played) was also weak in that regard. Only it went in the opposite direction, with things players absolutely needed to find hidden so well that the only way to accomplish anything was with a guide. I've had a lot of fun in both worlds but they do encourage more goal oriented play as opposed to unguided.

I have been working on my SMN ARR relic and I do feel that the ARR zones feel much more lively for me. There seems to be less purpose to the design and a more organic feel if that makes any sense. Ultima Thule is a great example of a map that was designed solely for one purpose, to serve the MSQ, and little else. It's laid out so you can only progress a certain way through MSQ blocks and once you can fly it is little more that 3 islands with some quest NPCs on them. The shroud though has all kinds of buildings and areas that are there just because they feel like they belong there.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I have been working on my SMN ARR relic and I do feel that the ARR zones feel much more lively for me. There seems to be less purpose to the design and a more organic feel if that makes any sense. Ultima Thule is a great example of a map that was designed solely for one purpose, to serve the MSQ, and little else. It's laid out so you can only progress a certain way through MSQ blocks and once you can fly it is little more that 3 islands with some quest NPCs on them. The shroud though has all kinds of buildings and areas that are there just because they feel like they belong there.

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100%. ARR zones feel like a real world you can explore. Ultima Thule feels like a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Exploration =/= going all over the map. Please get better at reading comprehension. The only thing that actually resembles exploration is the sightseeing log because some of them are in hidden nooks and crannies.

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This game is all about making your own fun. If people really wanted "exploration" it would come up more often, including question/answers time during live letters and the likely some content would be created. That's how Island Sanctuaries started. As there is only sightseeing log it seems there isn't much interest in this... and it's a one-off content. Repeatable tasks as those listed in previous posts work much better at having people in the zones.

It's very sad how bad expac zone design is. There shouldn't be a carrot on a stick like currents or the sightseeing log to encourage exploration, exploration should be its own reward. Those to me are just one of the many items on the FFXIV shallow content checklist I complete every expac, not something I do because I enjoy exploring the zones.

More condensed zones, sidequests that aren't obviously marked on the minimap and with a bit more thoughts put into them than "kill x amount of _ because ???" would go a long way.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

This game is all about making your own fun. If people really wanted "exploration" it would come up more often, including question/answers time during live letters and the likely some content would be created. That's how Island Sanctuaries started. As there is only sightseeing log it seems there isn't much interest in this... and it's a one-off content. Repeatable tasks as those listed in previous posts work much better at having people in the zones.

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Then I will plan on complaining about it more. I think the environmental design has been one of XIV's weakest aspects since Heavensward. EW's zones were literally five large circular bowls...and Thavnair. And part of that is ruined by flight which allows the player to quickly escape the denser ground level, but the earlier zones have a combination of denser level design and a lower flight ceiling that encourages a more immersive feel to the environment. And even comparing the earlier zones to stuff in say GW2 just isn't as richly designed.

I can say the same thing about dungeons and raids as well. Very sparse, linear experiences running through very beautiful backdrops. Everything is designed to look stunning in panorama, but generally lacking a degree of fineness that makes your immediate surroundings feel distinct/discrete/intimate.

This Zenos yae Galvus rper is really committed.

Wonder if OP is subscribed to some "things to complain about in MMOs" reddit or something.

Have to say most of these topics I don't really care about at all or find problematic. Oh well something to talk about I guess.

I'm personally fine being funneled into meaningful content and in general dislike wandering around in games. I have been pleasantly surprised by many sites in FFXIV while questing though and that's enough for me.

They could certainly do more with the open world, but adding more rewards for looking around won't fix this any more than the other things being presented as current incentives in this thread. really the only thing that can make people stop and look around is making the world more interesting and applying a sense of open world narrative to the locations. Not quests that have someone tell you (To take an real world equivalent) that "Or, this is the breach of Roland. a knight attempted to break his weapon and instead clove into the mountain." but rather adding interesting geological features and leaving the player to wonder at it. (Though stories like that certainly have their place. you want both.)

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Originally Posted by Skiros

FF14's open world does not encourage, incentivize, or reward exploration. Other than sightseeing logs, which give measly rewards if you actually organically explored rather than following a guide, there's almost next to no point in exploring the world.

Furthermore in Endwalker most of the zones, bar Garlemald, are really just a linear corridor disguised as a zone. You can most clearly see this in Ultima Thule. The entire zone is a linear corridor designed for the story. Now I don't mind this if only one zone is like this but Labyrinthos is also a linear corridor. Thavnair is a linear corridor for the west half of the MSQ. Only Garlemald felt like a zone where you can actually stretch your legs and explore - and that's what I've done when I played through the MSQ and found all the aether currents without a compass.

Exploration should be a big feature during the MSQ as you get to learn the lore of the land. I suggest:

1. Put hidden stories and sidequests throughout the zone that can only be seen when you are close. These quests should reward XP, coffers and gil similar to a MSQ quests, and give more lore and information about the zone.

2. Sightseeing log incentives should be increased and be accessible on foot. This allows players to organically find the sightseeing logs while going through the MSQ, and exploration before you unlock flying is always far better and more interesting.
I suggest giving players 2 coffers once they finish all sightseeing logs in the zone.

3. Zones should be far more fleshed out. ARR zones are compact - closed and bounded. Compact doesn't just mean small. It also implies density. There is so much life to be found in ARR zones - like the cabin that in Upper La Noscea that makes you wonder whose it is, and allow you to go in to explore. Zones shouldn't be purely open world aesthetically. There should also be thematic switches - little caves, cabins, etc. for you to look at. It's disappointing that so many rooms in Elpis and Labyrinthos are inaccessible. Making them accessible will help with immersion and exploration. Put interactable books that provide little lore details in these hidden corners of the world.

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How I wish for an open world in this beautiful game, but that's never gonna happen!

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Exploration =/= going all over the map. Please get better at reading comprehension. The only thing that actually resembles exploration is the sightseeing log because some of them are in hidden nooks and crannies. Flying around the map is not exploration:



Exactly. One of the biggest reasons why the earlier zones of Eureka felt explorable is because you can't fly.

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Nobody is forcing you to fly anywhere. You're more than welcome to ground mount it or leg it. :)

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Then I will plan on complaining about it more. I think the environmental design has been one of XIV's weakest aspects since Heavensward. EW's zones were literally five large circular bowls...and Thavnair. And part of that is ruined by flight which allows the player to quickly escape the denser ground level, but the earlier zones have a combination of denser level design and a lower flight ceiling that encourages a more immersive feel to the environment. And even comparing the earlier zones to stuff in say GW2 just isn't as richly designed.

I can say the same thing about dungeons and raids as well. Very sparse, linear experiences running through very beautiful backdrops. Everything is designed to look stunning in panorama, but generally lacking a degree of fineness that makes your immediate surroundings feel distinct/discrete/intimate.

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Would be great if Square took note from GW2 how open world content can be rich in content and exploration. Also they just released new expansion pack so more to explore.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

100%. ARR zones feel like a real world you can explore. Ultima Thule feels like a dungeon.

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You realize that Ultima Thule is a construct and not a real-world area. Right? Of course it feels like a dungeon, in that dungeons are built to somebody's plan, and so was Ultima Thule.