A DRG feedback post and thread for Endwalker

The purpose of this post is to provide feedback on the current state of DRG in Endwalker and to open the way for a thread of discussion on the matter. This'll be a bit long and will take several posts so thank you for your patience in advance!

1. Busy burst windows

DRG’s burst windows are no doubt busier now than they ever were in Shadowbringers thanks to the addition of three extra oGCDs in the rotation in the form of Wyrmwind Thrust (WWT) and the charges of Spineshatter Dive (SPD) and Life Surge (LS).

Despite being busy during burst windows, the job does not feel boring between them due to the way DRG positionals work, WWT usage, as well as the need to use Geirskogul (GSK) and High Jump (HJ) on hard cooldown.

2-min burst windows are especially filled with many oGCDs to fit. However, the issue does not lie in the number per se, but the fact that jumps cannot be double weaved in most cases without clipping the GCD. And when we say most cases, we mean that the vast majority of people are unable to do it, but it is possible if you live close to the servers and have very low ping (10 ms or so). Normal oGCDs have an animation lock of around 0.6-0.7s, whereas jumps (and tinctures) have an animation lock of 1.1s, with Stardiver (STD) having a lengthy 1.5s one.

In a full-uptime fight (e.g., P1S), the 2-min windows don’t pose much of a problem despite this caveat because only one charge of SPD and LS will be available due to the fact that the 2nd one is used in the previous 1-min Lance Charge (LC) window, and that WWT can be double-weaved normally.

However, a problem arises in fights with any kind of downtime (e.g., P2S, P3S reopener after adds) or when needing to fit role actions such as Feint and True North (TN), because there’s simply no room to fit these oGCDs unless they are used exactly before the burst window starts. This is not always optimal or even possible for the case of TN, since mechanics or positioning may force it to be used later. And this is exacerbated by the fact that the downtime may cause alignment issues due to the need of using GSK and HJ on hard cooldown. An example would be the stun caused by the first arrows in P2S, which can cause both HJ and LS to be available right before a Heavens’ Thrust (HT).

In addition, having so many oGCD windows in which double-weaving is not possible for most people makes it very hard to fit all the oGCDs of the burst window —excluding the 3rd Nastrond (NAS)— into 15s buffs, which is weird if we consider the fact that DRG actually provides one of these.

Therefore, the solution would not be pruning oGCDs or buttons from the rotation, but to reduce the animation lock of jumps (except STD) so that they can be double-weaved with any non-jump oGCD. Their animation lock can still be a tiny bit longer than normal oGCDs if so desired to maintain that “feel”. This would make (2-min) burst windows more comfortable and flexible while allowing DRGs to fit their burst inside their own Battle Litany (BL) and any other 15s buffs.

2. Positionals

DRG right now is the “positional job”: in a 10 GCD string (the basic DRG rotation), 50% of the GCDs will be positionals. Additionally, the 4th and 5th positional hits are always back/flank (or vice versa) one after the other, meaning that they can be tight to hit during specific mechanic or movement-intensive moments.

Positionals add a layer of complexity to the job. It could be debated how good or bad it is, but it’s there. Therefore, removing them would be a step in the wrong direction, as it would simplify DRG. What could be done, instead, is to provide more tools to deal with them.

Reducing the animation lock of jumps and allowing the Fang and Claw (FnC) and Wheeling Thrust (WT) duo to be used in any order after Chaotic Spring (CS) or HT are two possible solutions.

3. Job difficulty

It is often said that DRG is one of the easier melees to pick up because of its fixed GCD rotation and “simple rule” of using all oGCDs on cooldown. Having a lower skill floor is not a negative point if a job has a high skill ceiling. However, could we say that this strictness makes the job easier?

Right now, any mistakes in the rotation, any drift caused by whatever reason, will already make it difficult to recover. For example, small drifts in GSK and HJ either due to player error or mismanagement of faster skillspeeds can slowly but surely move life windows and oGCDs out of buffs. This means that DRG gets quite punished unless things are used on hard cooldown.

This is partially due to the jumps’ animation lock, since they have to be used alone in oGCD windows and so can push non-jump oGCDs out of buffs when mistakes happen.

Additionally, due to the fact that all jumps are also gap closers, drifting them (HJ in particular) can kill or force even more drift during specific mechanics (e.g., Intemperance 1 in P1S). This can be countered by the order oGCDs are used in the opener but requires a strict use until then. A drift of only one GCD can already cause important alignment issues in a case such as this one.

The solution would not be to prune oGCDs or buttons, but to make their use a bit more comfortable and/or forgiving in some cases.

4. Gauges and oGCDs

a. Firstminds’ Focus (scales)
The addition of scales and WWT to DRG has been quite good, as it provides us with an extra button to press both outside of and within buffs and fits the job’s theme of being oGCD focused.

Something that could be done with scales is to allow a third one to be stored while maintaining the same WWT cost of two so that we can pool them to fit more into buffs. This would provide more decision-making and flexibility to its use, though there’s the argument that it could reduce the things to do between burst windows.

There’s also the consideration of making scales be given by the 5th hit of the combo instead of Raiden Thrust (RT) or Draconian Fury (DF) to allow the first WWT to be fit at the tail end of buffs in the opener. However, this could impact future alignment in the fight, unless the gauge was expanded to hold up to three scales.

b. First Brood’s Gaze (eyes)
The DRG’s main gauge is very good the way it is, though there are some things that could be done about it and its related oGCDs.

It's been said by the developers that not all jobs need to have all their kit available in the opener. DRG is one of the few jobs that cannot use their main gauge at the beginning of the fight.

A question arises though: does it mean then that a DRG’s 2-min burst window is stronger than that of those jobs that do have their full kit in the opener? There are many variables, since the job may deal more damage over time to compensate for this lack, and that the opener is just one part of the fight, although admittedly quite important.

If the developers ever decided to allow DRG the ability to have a Life of the Dragon window in the opener, then several things could be done to allow for extra eye generation.

HJ could have one extra charge, allowing for an extra eye at the beginning of the encounter. Though again we run into the issue of double-weaving jumps, and extra consideration would have to be taken concerning eye generation and life alignment with buffs for the rest of the fight.

Another solution would be to have Mirage Dive (MD) work as it does in PvP, where it has charges that are replenished by using certain actions. Having 2 MD charges every time we start a duty that can only be refreshed one by one through HJ would let us have a life window in the opener without impacting the rest of the fight too much. An MD charge-based system is, in my opinion, the way the ability should work, as it is flexible and would also allow it to be fit it into extra buffs in specific situations, for example.

Players have also suggested merging MD’s button into HJ’s, since the former cannot be used when the latter is available, to reduce button bloat. I personally don’t think DRG is a job that is button bloated, since almost all our buttons are used in most scenarios, with the only change being using either the single target or AoE combo, and we didn’t really gain an extra button in Endwalker compared to Shadowbringers. If anything, what should be done is making MD more interesting in its use, such as the suggestion previously made.

One thing is clear though, removing MD entirely would be a bad solution to button bloat in the future, as the ability is iconic to the job. I’d rather merge the MD button into HJ than see it removed.

Finally, concerning GSK and NAS, players have expressed their disapproval of making these abilities have falloff damage against more than one target since they are an integral part of DRG in both single target and AoE scenarios, and that they can only be used in a limited number every minute due to being abilities.

Another issue is the fact that only two NAS can be used when the Life of the Dragon trait is acquired at level 70. Why not allow life to last 30s by default and introduce something else as the level 78 trait? The 20s duration is a relic from when Blood of the Dragon (BotD) was not a trait and was only relevant at level 70, since it always had a fixed duration of 30s in Shadowbringers.

c. Spineshatter Dive and Dragonfire Dive
SPD was given a second charge to be used as a gap closer, but its potency is too high to be used outside buffs, unlike those of tanks, for example.

SPD’s role can stay, instead, as that of a medium-hitting charge-based ability that we try to accommodate during buffs. It should probably hit a bit harder in this sense, as otherwise there’d be nothing else to it.

Turning SPD into a pure gap closer by removing or lowering its damage would make it a bit strange, not only due to its name but also its long history as one of the iconic DRG jumps.

If the developers want DRG to have more gap closing options, they should look at Elusive Jump’s (EJ) cooldown and/or give us a non-potency gap closer with a 20-30s cooldown. Perhaps a forward EJ? But that’d make it too similar to RPR, so a Corps-a-Corps style gap closer without damage would be a more fitting solution.

Dragonfire Dive (DFD) on the other hand lacks identity right now. It’s just a fire-and-forget button we press every 120s during buff windows. Its AoE potential is barely used outside of dungeons and turning it into the “AoE jump” by having it share a cast time with SPD would be too “boring”, as it would break the DRG’s identity of jumping several times in a row during bursts.

I can think of two possible options for DFD. The easiest one would be to make it hit harder or to halve its cooldown while maintaining the potency. I’d rather prefer the former since, while it’d still be just a damage button pressed every 120s, it’d be a bit more meaningful, whereas the latter would just make it too like SPD in use.

However, the better solution would be to allow DFD to either give one eye, one scale, or both. This way, it’d act like an extra HJ every two minutes while also dealing respectable damage and thus having an identity of its own. Once again, getting extra eyes is something that needs to be looked at carefully, as it can considerably change life alignment during a fight’s timeline. Perhaps combining this option with a MD charge-based system such as the one previously mentioned would be helpful.

d. Life Surge
LS is a bit odd: it’s neither a jump, nor a buff nor a gauge-related oGCD. Many players were expecting its removal and were surprised when it was given a second charge. Nonetheless, it’s not a bad ability per se, just a bit out of place.

The recent 6.08 changes made it so that it’s mostly worth it to use LS on HT. Before, using it on the 5th GCD positional was a gain of 10 potency with at least one 10% damage buff over an unbuffed HT, but now it’s only worth it when the 5th is under both LC and Dragon Sight (DS)… for just 4 potency. If this happens, let’s say, four times in a fight, it’s just a 16 potency gain. Why optimize this when the gain is almost non-existent?

In order to make LS usage more interesting, the 5th's potency would need to be of 405 to make it 10 potency again (but with two buffs) or 410 for it to be a 16 potency gain over an unbuffed HT.

Another solution would be to allow LS to interact with CS in some way, by either buffing the DoT or making an LS-buffed CS to allow the initial hit to instantly deal an additional damage equal to 50/100% of the DoT’s damage, similar to BLM’s Thundercloud. Numbers would have to be looked at to avoid turning CS into the new HT, where you’d just want to buff the former and never the latter, but this change would make the ability more interesting.

However, my main problem with LS is that it’s an auto-crit 45s ability with two charges given to a job that provides a crit buff. It’s almost as odd as DNCs having a direct crit attack that must be used during a direct crit buff.

In order to fix this problem, I propose a probably-not-simple-to-implement solution: to make automatic (direct) crit attacks get extra damage under the effect of (direct) crit chance buffs. For example, an LS’d HT under BL would deal 5% extra damage, either directly added to the critical multiplier or as a normal 5% damage buff. A direct hit buff would still interact normally with the LS, and further crit buffs such as Chain Stratagem or Devilment would further increase the damage by 5% and 10% respectively.

Right now, I am basing my assumption on a damage boost of half the chance when it’s a critical buff, and perhaps 25/33% damage when it’s a direct hit buff. Numbers could be tuned as needed, since there’s probably many variables involved, but it shouldn’t be a drastic change for most jobs affected.

This would make skills like Starfall Dance, LS or Reassemble less weird to use when combined with (direct) crit buffs and it’d finally allow WARs to benefit from these buffs without wasting potential damage. Special care must probably be taken for both WARs and maybe MNKs due to how often they use automatic (direct) crit attacks, by perhaps reducing the damage they gain from these buffs. However, considering this’ll only happen for 15s every 120s (with the exception of The Wanderer’s Minuet), it shouldn’t be too drastic on those jobs either.

5. Dragon Sight

The recent 6.08 change to DS fixed the problem of having your partner close to you all the time, since this isn’t always possible.

As a side note, BL would benefit a lot from having a 20 yalm radius.

However, there are still some issues with the ability: if your partner dies you still lose the buff, and pets continue to be unaffected by it, making SMN and MCH bad choices by virtue of game mechanics and not player/job relevance. If AST cards can buff pets, the so should DS.

Other players have expressed the need to change the way it works when buffing a partner by maybe making it similar to DNC’s Dance Partner in order to avoid the use of a macro: two buttons, one to select a partner and one (the actual 120s cooldown buff) to activate the ability, yet still buffing the DRG if no partner is selected.

Nevertheless, DS feels like an uninteresting ability. I’d say there are two ways of making it better: either remove LC and make DS a 15-20% 60s personal buff or making DS work like Brotherhood or Arcane Circle, by giving something other than pure %-based damage. The former would make burst windows a bit better by allowing one more oGCD to be weaved, but it would probably require a bit of an animation overhaul by perhaps combining LC’s animation with the swirling dragon of DS. However, it’d be a “boring” solution.
The latter could prove interesting depending on its implementation, but right now I cannot think of what it could do. Perhaps give an eye? But then what of DFD?

Keeping DS the way it is now is fine, too, but it’d require some quality-of-life changes.

6. Piercing Talon

Our ranged attack to be used only when we’re unable to maintain uptime on the target is probably too weak, with only 150 potency. If we compare it to RPR, who has a 300 potency Harpe as well as the unique 600 potency option in Harvest Moon, it’d make sense for Piercing Talon (PT) to hit a bit harder, perhaps 200 potency. We’d still want to avoid using it no matter what, but it’d be less of a loss.

7. Aesthetics

The transition of BoTD to a trait also meant the removal of the blue aura. As many others have expressed: please bring back the blue aura when we have one or two eyes in a similar way to WAR’s gauge and DRK’s Darkside.

DRG is an aesthetically pleasing job that does not require much updating in this sense. Perhaps in the future Vorpal Thrust (VT) and PT should be upgraded to new, better versions. WT and FnC could maybe get a general graphical improvement: not an update to the skills per se, just a bit of polish. The same could be said for older skills of many other jobs that already look good but could look better.

True Thrust (TT) and Doom Spike (DoS) should be permanently replaced by RT and DF once the latter are learned. Scales can just be granted by RT/DF under the effect of Draconian Fire. TT and DoS are mostly used once per fight and never again, so it stands to reason that they should just be upgraded to their way better looking alternatives. In single target scenarios, this change would mean a single 50-potency boost, as the first TT will be an RT instead, but this’d be a negligible “buff”.

The removal of DS’ tether animation in 6.08 is a bit strange considering that Fey Union has the same range, but the animation stays. Would it be possible to give an option to allow players to select whether they can see the tether? Perhaps implemented in the same way Egi-glamours or pet size options work?

Finally, I’d like to reinstate the idea that removing skills for DRG is not a solution, as it’ll inevitable break the identity (aesthetically as well) of the job.

Conclusion

DRG is a well-rounded job, but this doesn’t mean that it can’t be better. The most important change I want to advocate for is the reduction of the animation lock on non-STD jumps, changing the way information with the server works so that there’s no need to wait extra time when inputting abilities, or both.

DRG is an oGCD-focused job and so being unable to double-weave jumps with non-jump oGCDs causes a lot of problems. Making jumps hit harder would just exacerbate the problem and still benefit those able to double weave them, while punishing players with high ping. Making all jumps' animation lock like STD would not fix the issue either and removing abilities is not a solution; it’d only make the job simpler and uninteresting.

Still, the animation lock issue is not the only thing to be looked at. The way LS interacts with crit buffs, DFD’s identity or DS are other points of concern.

I’d like to finish my post by thanking those that have read it until this point. I am by no means a theorycrafter. Most of the information I have used to base my post on comes from the knowledge provided by those at The Balance, as well as my own experience.

There’s a high chance that some of the things or suggestions provided may not be as good as they could be. Any feedback on them will be appreciated.

One other issue that Dragon Sight has is that macroing it means it won’t queue like a normal ability. This makes it very challenging to double weave in busy burst windows. I’ve had many occurrences where mashing it repeatedly still doesn’t make it activate, and then when it does finally activate, stuff has gotten delayed or desync’d.

Because so many Savage mechanics occur at the 2 minute windows (e.g. Intemperance, Pinax, Act 2), adding a button that you have to mash more than normal makes those windows much more uncomfortable than they otherwise would be.

I don’t really know what the solution is as far as the ability, but I’m hopeful for a mechanical rework given that Square has already scrapped most of its identifying features in 6.08.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishrak

One other issue that Dragon Sight has is that macroing it means it won’t queue like a normal ability. This makes it very challenging to double weave in busy burst windows. I’ve had many occurrences where mashing it repeatedly still doesn’t make it activate, and then when it does finally activate, stuff has gotten delayed or desync’d.

Because so many Savage mechanics occur at the 2 minute windows (e.g. Intemperance, Pinax, Act 2), adding a button that you have to mash more than normal makes those windows much more uncomfortable than they otherwise would be.

I don’t really know what the solution is as far as the ability, but I’m hopeful for a mechanical rework given that Square has already scrapped most of its identifying features in 6.08.

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Absolutely! This is a thing about macros in general. I understand that they don't want GCDs to be queued or responsive with a macro, but they should be with (some) oGCDs at least. Using a <mo> macro while moving was so annoying and unreliable at times that I permanently switched to fixed number ones (e.g. <2>) but while better, it can still cause problems: they are too restrictive and you need several to account for player deaths.

This is why I've seen the "DNC partner" treatment solution to DS, but then they'd have to be careful with the DNC partner buff because what happens if your chosen player dies shortly before it's time to burst? Changing partners should then be something that you can do at will without incurring any kind of GCD or oGCD slot...

I don't know what's in store for the future for DS, though I'd say I miss the tether animation and wish they brought it back as an option at least. I just hope that if they cannot find anything creative or interesting about DS, that at least they fix its issues. It's too clunky an ability for how simple its effect is...

All I want on dragoon: remove dragonfire dive, make high jump turn into mirage dive. Then again, I don’t main dragoon so