Azem timeline confusion

I'm confused as to when exactly we started being Azem. In the side story where Hades becomes Emet Selch Hythlodaeus asks if they should go and tell us and Emet says no. That we probably already know. Either from the Amurotin grapevine or that Convocation members get a memo/linkpearl buzz. This gave me the impression that we were already Azem. Heck even Hythlodaeus telling of who backed Hade's nomination backs that thought up in that we as Azem went "Yes, Hades would be a good candidate."

Yet when we get introduced to Venat it comes off as though she only recently stepped down. Unless Venat is that good at "annoying" Emet to the point it only seems like they've worked with each other for a lengthy amount of time.

Venat stopped being Azem sometime prior to the Grape/Volcano incident, which happened sometime prior to Elpis. They don't state specifically how long she's been retired for, just that it's unusual for her to not have returned to the star on her retirement.

We also don't know exactly how long Hades has held the seat of Emet-Selch, considering the ancients exceptionally long life spans its possible that he took up the seat while Venat was still Azem and was there when our Azem took over the seat when Venat retired.

Thus as to part of my confusion. In the side story where Hades had been raised to the seat of Emet Selch it comes off at least to me that our past self wasn't around due to us already doing Azem stuff. Yet Venat and Emet talk to each other like they had been co-workers for awhile.

It never said that they were out doing Azem stuff they just were not in Amaurot at the time and that he/she would receive the memorandum (English version) Once it was let out. I'd be more inclined to believe they weren't azem since when one is raised it looks like (from Elidibus' memories of him taking the seat of Elidibus) that the whole convocation is around for the raising.

Hmm the more I think about it besides Venat's support our PC ( with how they are portrayed in the side stories) may have only been raised to the seat of Azem because, while the convocation acknowledged their achievements and deeds, they thought Emet-Selch could reign them in a bit more.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Thus as to part of my confusion. In the side story where Hades had been raised to the seat of Emet Selch it comes off at least to me that our past self wasn't around due to us already doing Azem stuff. Yet Venat and Emet talk to each other like they had been co-workers for awhile.

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Venat is also buddies with Hythlodaeus, a guy with no big-deal role on that level at all. I think she's just the kind of friendly busybody who's got some history with everyone. Which, according to what we know of the Azem role, is the actual job description.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I'm confused as to when exactly we started being Azem. In the side story where Hades becomes Emet Selch Hythlodaeus asks if they should go and tell us and Emet says no. That we probably already know. Either from the Amurotin grapevine or that Convocation members get a memo/linkpearl buzz. This gave me the impression that we were already Azem. Heck even Hythlodaeus telling of who backed Hade's nomination backs that thought up in that we as Azem went "Yes, Hades would be a good candidate."

Yet when we get introduced to Venat it comes off as though she only recently stepped down. Unless Venat is that good at "annoying" Emet to the point it only seems like they've worked with each other for a lengthy amount of time.

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Venat implies that she knows Hades's age, so it's likely that she's known him his whole life. There's some shades of nepotism at hand with the Convocation and all that. Though also the Convocation seems to value outside input on the positions to some degree as well, since Hythlodaeus is giving input about Hermes in Elpis.

We, prior to being Azem, may have also known Hades our whole life. May have even known Venat before she was ever Azem too. Until they nail down something concrete, there's an enormous margin for possibility. Given how close the story paints us to be to her, becoming her successor much like Hermes became the previous Fandaniel's successor in both Elpis and on the Convocation, it's likely that we could have heard from Venat directly about Hades's appointment. If we weren't already Azem.

Something very appealing about the long life of the Ancients, at least to me, is the possibility to get to know so many people for a very long time.

I hate to say cause you don't ask a woman her age but damn how old do we think Venat may have been? She straight out says that when we fought her in our past life we were less than half her age and also (though this is by their standard) that Emet is even too young to get wrinkles...

Same age as Galadriel. 8372 years old! But wait, that's Arda time... Are we dealing with Valinean years here or solar ones? @_@ How long is a year in Etheirys? How long was a year in Unsundered Etheirys? Oh boy, my head spinnin'

Can I haz her age defying secret then? I need my hair to no longer being damn near completely gray at the young age of 40...

And no dyeing it doesn't always cover completely and it grows out >.<

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Can I haz her age defying secret then? I need my hair to no longer being damn near completely gray at the young age of 40...

And no dyeing it doesn't always cover completely and it grows out >.<

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I'll take her skin care regimen, thanks. I've already got clearly defined forehead wrinkles, and I only turn 32 this year. Not too mention the ones near my eyes.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I'll take her skin care regimen, thanks. I've already got clearly defined forehead wrinkles, and I only turn 32 this year. Not too mention the ones near my eyes.

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I hesitate to post this in a lore discussion but beyond the usual of mitigating sun exposure etc... research retinoids. You won't glow quite as much as she does, though.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I hate to say cause you don't ask a woman her age but damn how old do we think Venat may have been? She straight out says that when we fought her in our past life we were less than half her age and also (though this is by their standard) that Emet is even too young to get wrinkles...

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Incalculable, because we don't know how Ancients perceive time or how old 'old' is. Hell, basically our only frame of reference for the Ancients' perception of the passage of time is 'days exist and people sleep at night', which isn't exactly a groundbreaking discovery.

But if we were to hypothetically fit Ancient lifespans to the same relative length as a human lifespan of '100 years-ish' (which, mind you, also enforces an unwilling death on the Ancients which means it's also wrong), maybe she's... I dunno, fifty-ish? Not old old, but old enough to be the unquestionable senior figure in pretty much every group we see her in. It also means there's a decent stretch of time in 'less than half her age' where people are still grown adults.

Alternative answer: she was somewhere over four hundred, because if we take the 'less than half her age' comment to be literal, then we have to assume that 'half her age' is the upper limit of age any player character can be. And that upper limit is viera, with a lifespan of 200-250 years.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Venat is also buddies with Hythlodaeus, a guy with no big-deal role on that level at all. I think she's just the kind of friendly busybody who's got some history with everyone. Which, according to what we know of the Azem role, is the actual job description.

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Hythlodaeus is Chief of the Bureau of the Architect – maybe not ranking as high as the Convocation, but certainly not a nobody.

As for Venat and her likely age... well, she's old enough to have retired and kept on going, so despite having no apparent age and not seeming older than the others, logically she's more towards the "cool old lady" archetype.

Also it's possible that Venat still does some work with the Convocation as an advisor even if she's not an actual member any more.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As for Venat and her likely age... well, she's old enough to have retired and kept on going, so despite having no apparent age and not seeming older than the others, logically she's more towards the "cool old lady" archetype.

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Indeed. A lot of things allow for us to perceive her as such. You can likely attest that being a female Midlander during this part of the story really helps with the immersion and the seniority Venat has over us. Not that she needs the help being the heart of Hydaelyn and all, but other things like mentioning Azem being less than half her age, her appearance, and the sparring match also really help to put her in that position. Regardless of which race and gender you pick though, the current Azem is a Hyur and not as old, and likely not as physically imposing as Venat.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Venat is also buddies with Hythlodaeus, a guy with no big-deal role on that level at all. I think she's just the kind of friendly busybody who's got some history with everyone. Which, according to what we know of the Azem role, is the actual job description.

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Yeah this is the impression I got. Specifically, Venat is close with her student, these two are her student’s go to party members and best friends, therefore Venat has worked with them often. They’re likely just friends thru Azem.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Hythlodaeus is Chief of the Bureau of the Architect – maybe not ranking as high as the Convocation, but certainly not a nobody.

As for Venat and her likely age... well, she's old enough to have retired and kept on going, so despite having no apparent age and not seeming older than the others, logically she's more towards the "cool old lady" archetype.

Also it's possible that Venat still does some work with the Convocation as an advisor even if she's not an actual member any more.

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I'll point out further that Hythlodaeus was up for Hades's seat on the Convocation first, and was likely visited by/suggested by its members to fill the Emet-selch position and Venat could have come into contact with him that way, if she didn't already know him.

I like seeing Azem, Emet and Hythlodeaus as childhood friends... or if not something like middle school or high-school buddies. To me it seems odd not to see (though I'm probably going from my view of how long people live) that they're really close as friends and that it happened before them both being raised. Hythlodeaus even mentions that he is willing to do anything and everything to help both Azem and Emet out to finish their dreams. That it was his dream to make it happen and they'd all go back to the star together when hes helped them accomplish that.... kinda like a Sailor Moon friendship thing.

Edit: or even like maxing out your friendship with a specific character like in Persona.. (sorry picked up persona 5 royal during the psn sale and have been playing it as well since I played vanilla and heard they did well with the integration of the new character)

I also wonder if/when Hades was an Azem. He's used the Azem summoning powers a few times (Warrior of Light, Endsinger Trials). A friend and I reckon that the order was Venat, Hades, and then us. Just because we were her protege (so to speak) doesn't mean we haven't also been friends with Venat for a long time. Or that we haven't been doing things before that. You have to have a traveler's spirit and ability to counsel to be an Azem, after all.

Hades was never Azem once you become a member of the Convocation you are that seat until you step down and retire back to the planet... no he was only ever Emet-Selch and Hades mentions specifically that Venat was the Azem before as in right before us our previous life. He calls our past life HER successor (granted unruly) Not his...

Makes you wonder if he was a possible candidate for the seat of Azem. If so, it's very likely that Venat had the last word and probably agreed with the assertion that his sight of aether was better used as the seat of Emet-Selch.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Makes you wonder if he was a possible candidate for the seat of Azem. If so, it's very likely that Venat had the last word and probably agreed with the assertion that his sight of aether was better used as the seat of Emet-Selch.

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If he was, he himself was never discussed for the role.

But I don't think he ever was, because frankly, he's way too antisocial to be a good Azem. The role of Azem is all about going out and helping people, and if you recall, Emet was not exactly jumping at the chance to do so in Elpis.

Hythlodeaus even mentions he really only got his reputation for helping people because our past life was a busy body and was getting into everyone's business.

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Originally Posted by DestiniDestati

He's used the Azem summoning powers a few times (Warrior of Light, Endsinger Trials).

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He's been drawn to us by Azem's power a few times, but that's the opposite of using it.

I get the impression that, having created Azem's crystal, he still had something of a sentimental streak and "took Azem to interesting places". (Inbetween conquering and ruining interesting places, but it's the thought that counts...)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

He's been drawn to us by Azem's power a few times, but that's the opposite of using it.

I get the impression that, having created Azem's crystal, he still had something of a sentimental streak and "took Azem to exciting places". (Inbetween conquering and ruining interesting places, but it's the thought that counts...)

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That's the feeling I got. Seriously I wanted to have a sassy line of something like "Of course you did. You had how many years to travel? Partly to scope out places to use as rejoining sites; I'm sure.". As how else would there be sentimental nods to explain why symbols of Azem pop up every where?

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Originally Posted by DestiniDestati

Just because we were her protege (so to speak) doesn't mean we haven't also been friends with Venat for a long time. Or that we haven't been doing things before that. You have to have a traveler's spirit and ability to counsel to be an Azem, after all.

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It's a safe assumption, but we can still only speculate how exactly we came into the convocation. Based off of what we see in Elpis, there is a degree of nepotism when it comes to the passing of the seat, but natural ability and resonance also play a big part when it comes to the recommendations and eventual inauguration into the convocation. That being said, us being us catching the attention of Venat and/or other members is a far more likely scenario than backing into it.

... then again, it is the seat of Azem, which is probably the most mutable of them all. We very could have just stumbled into the role, and were just like, "Sooo Cool! I have to go take care of something now. Bye!" Makes you think Venat, who eventually becomes the god of stasis, was more than happy to give up the seat.