Let trusts flex at least one other role

i like trusts but i don't like being pigeonholed into having to play x role to most efficiently level them

for example in the mothercrystal urianger is able to also function as a dps.

now how i'd do it is have it is keep it within the same/similar gameplay style (for example, have alphinaud flex as a caster since he's a healer, let thancred function as a melee dps and estinien as a tank)

more flexibility would make things a lot nicer and grant you flexibility so you can play what you want without worrying about other characters falling behind

I think it would be healthier for the game moving forward if our future trust party was composed of characters with multiple roles as opposed to ones locked to specific jobs. It would make levelling trusts far less of a pain for a start, but also gives writers a chance to stick with a smaller and well-written cast of characters as opposed to ones that feel like they're just tagging along for the ride like Thancred and sometimes G'raha feel-though admittedly I find myself taking G'raha on trust runs often because of his multiple roles.

Of course, there's no reason why we should wait till 7.0 for this. Thancred still knows how to be a rogue, Y'shtola still knows how to heal, and Alphinaud and Urianger still know offensive Arcanist spells.

Sounds like a lot of development time spent on something that I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't touch after doing it the one time during MSQ where they scale with the dungeon. While the Squadron was a very efficient way of leveling and thus actually utilized, the Trust is.. not efficient to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Sounds like a lot of development time spent on something that I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't touch after doing it the one time during MSQ where they scale with the dungeon. While the Squadron was a very efficient way of leveling and thus actually utilized, the Trust is.. not efficient to say the least.

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They're actually not that inefficient. Trusts take about 30 minutes to complete a dungeon. 81+ Dungeons give a little bit under half a level. Praetorium is about a level for an hour or so, so they're about equal to that which a ton of people do. Unless you can get instant queues into the dungeons, they're actually a decent way to level.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

They're actually not that inefficient. Trusts take about 30 minutes to complete a dungeon. 81+ Dungeons give a little bit under half a level. Praetorium is about a level for an hour or so, so they're about equal to that which a ton of people do. Unless you can get instant queues into the dungeons, they're actually a decent way to level.

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Plus Thancred gives you no drama if you wall-to-wall pull ahead, unlike some snowflakes in this game.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Sounds like a lot of development time spent on something that I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't touch after doing it the one time during MSQ where they scale with the dungeon. While the Squadron was a very efficient way of leveling and thus actually utilized, the Trust is.. not efficient to say the least.

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Just because you don't utilise a certain game feature does not make altering that game feature a waste of development time.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Sounds like a lot of development time spent on something that I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't touch after doing it the one time during MSQ where they scale with the dungeon. While the Squadron was a very efficient way of leveling and thus actually utilized, the Trust is.. not efficient to say the least.

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I like the Trust. Liked my squad even more, since I could make it All-Lala and play dress up with them. It's by no means a dead kind of content.

If I'd criticize one thing about this dev team, it's their tendency to abandon older content. The chocobo, for example, could use a touch up.

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Originally Posted by technole

Plus Thancred gives you no drama if you wall-to-wall pull ahead, unlike some snowflakes in this game.

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There are a couple spots he seems perfectly willing to do it himself now actually. He's not consistent about it, but I've seen him do it in both Zot and Vanaspati.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

There are a couple spots he seems perfectly willing to do it himself now actually. He's not consistent about it, but I've seen him do it in both Zot and Vanaspati.

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What? I have never seen My Turn do it on his own. I must be unlucky. I pull for him.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

What? I have never seen My Turn do it on his own. I must be unlucky. I pull for him.

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He can. I even saved a clip of it from the first time I saw it happen.
https://twitter.com/Eusis_Landale/st...12505754390529

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

He can. I even saved a clip of it from the first time I saw it happen.
https://twitter.com/Eusis_Landale/st...12505754390529

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That seems more like the mobs entered his aggro range so he went to get them.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

That seems more like the mobs entered his aggro range so he went to get them.

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You can, kind of due to the crappy twitter quality, see him pop off provoke before any of that second group turns red. So while it's possible that it's just because they got too close and aggroed him, it wasn't due to them being pulled first. Whatever's going on with his programming, it made him make an extra pull.

The other place I've seen it makes me wonder a bit more though. It's the last floor in Zot, he'll go running for the Roaders as they get to the closer end of their path if he's kind of near there which is in line with your "his aggro range is bigger than theirs" idea. But then he proceeds to keep going until he's pulled the second actual group.

I can certainly see why this would be attractive to some. make the game more solo friendly so you dont have to interact with other real people.

but sure, why not flesh it out a bit. might cut down on some people entering the roulettes

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

They're actually not that inefficient. Trusts take about 30 minutes to complete a dungeon. 81+ Dungeons give a little bit under half a level. Praetorium is about a level for an hour or so, so they're about equal to that which a ton of people do. Unless you can get instant queues into the dungeons, they're actually a decent way to level.

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When it comes to time spent in dungeon, they're quite inefficient. Praetorium is great because you spend the majority of it in cutscenes, doing something else. Even with relatively long queues, you can at least do something else meanwhile there as well, and the runs on average go twice as fast as the Trust (in my experience). You can do this with your Trust, granted, by pulling a pack and letting them 3-man it (assuming you're a dps), but then that greatly increases the duration of the run.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

Just because you don't utilise a certain game feature does not make altering that game feature a waste of development time.

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Merely implied I don't think it's something people utilize enough to warrant the amount of time it would take to implement it. I might be entirely mistaken, and I might not be.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

When it comes to time spent in dungeon, they're quite inefficient. Praetorium is great because you spend the majority of it in cutscenes, doing something else.

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Ah yes, this is exactly why I play the game: to not play it....

I know a lot of people in my in-game social circle who prefer to level through all their DPS with trusts because it's about equal in time to an actual player-filled dungeon run if you factor in queue times. I level things I'm not confident in through trusts to stop from dragging down others. Guaranteed loot like minions and orchestrions when they do drop is also a nice bonus. Others just do it to get the special title from leveling them all to cap, and that's nice too. Giving trusts more flex roles gives players more flexibility when it comes to getting them capped out.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I can certainly see why this would be attractive to some. make the game more solo friendly so you dont have to interact with other real people.

but sure, why not flesh it out a bit. might cut down on some people entering the roulettes

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me personally i vastly prefer trusts while levelling dps since it's less time waiting and i still get a decent chunk of xp

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Originally Posted by Illy_Peridot

Ah yes, this is exactly why I play the game: to not play it....

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While you are technically correct that you are playing more, it does leave you with AI allies that are programmed to make next to no mistakes (for good reason) except during the trial where they are available, while being woefully slow. If purely playing the game for the sake of pressing your class's buttons while leveling (in lieu of efficiency and the core MMORPG element of playing with actual people) is the goal, then sure, going in with the Trust will generally give you more of that. But then again, you could just go grind out FATEs at that rate, another system in the game that has felt woefully abandoned design-wise.

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Originally Posted by Illy_Peridot

I know a lot of people in my in-game social circle who prefer to level through all their DPS with trusts because it's about equal in time to an actual player-filled dungeon run if you factor in queue times. I level things I'm not confident in through trusts to stop from dragging down others. Guaranteed loot like minions and orchestrions when they do drop is also a nice bonus. Others just do it to get the special title from leveling them all to cap, and that's nice too. Giving trusts more flex roles gives players more flexibility when it comes to getting them capped out.

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That's fair, but why do you care about whether Thancred is slapping the enemy with a gunblade or stabbing them with daggers with different dialogue lines and ability animations, then? I can understand the flexibility argument for the sake of the title, but I think you'll find other 1% groups in the game who feel a lot more ignored than this one.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Sounds like a lot of development time spent on something that I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't touch after doing it the one time during MSQ where they scale with the dungeon. While the Squadron was a very efficient way of leveling and thus actually utilized, the Trust is.. not efficient to say the least.

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Lmao, how's it a waste? Because you don't do it?
I actually use trusts for tanks, EVEN healing. If you take in account the 20 mins DPS wait timers, it's actually
faster to do the dungeons with trusts than to wait 20+ mins for people. Trusts are one of the best things
they added to this game. What they need to do it expand Trusts/Squadrons/Retainers level with you in all the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Even with relatively long queues, you can at least do something else meanwhile there as well, and the runs on average go twice as fast as the Trust (in my experience).

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Outside of Experts, 15 minute runs aren't really all that common in my experience. Closer to 20. That gives you about 10 minutes of Fate time, which is maybe 10-15% of a level if the area is active. If not considerably less.
So, sure, you could get 20-30% more EXP an hour. But everything needs to be absolutely perfect. You need a bunch of people doing Fates at the same time as you, you need a half decent group when your queue pops, you need the queue to take 10 minutes maximum.
Or you could just go with Trusts. It's not optimal, but that's not what you were arguing. You spoke only of efficiency and Trusts are quite so. Nearly one level every hour, without subjecting you to the whims and competency of other players.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

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Running with trusts gives a great benefit in that you can practice out your combat rotation in living content that you'll continue to encounter via roulettes in the future, and feature mechanics you'll see in other instanced battle content later. FATEs are zergfests half the time and most people ditch those after they've gotten to cap or reached their gem goals. They're even more boring and repetitive than leveling dungeons and I say that as someone who's been grinding those out alongside trusts as part of my leveling experience. You can say that the core part of this game is playing with other people but considering most of the other people experience is finding randos in DF you'll never speak to again...

You see from this thread alone how many people are vouching for trusts, and that's just a fragment of the playerbase. Imagine how many people who aren't signed up on the forums use them. Just because there's a plethora of ignored content in this game that's in need of attention doesn't mean that this couldn't use improvements, and most things I can think of that need fixing aren't even battle content anyway so another part of the team would likely be tasked with fixing it up anyway. I also really don't care what the NPCs are slapping mobs with as long as they're doing their jobs; we just need a better balance between roles in trusts to ease the experience for those of us who multitask capping their levels alongside our own.

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Originally Posted by Illy_Peridot

You see from this thread alone how many people are vouching for trusts, and that's just a fragment of the playerbase. Imagine how many people who aren't signed up on the forums use them. Just because there's a plethora of ignored content in this game that's in need of attention doesn't mean that this couldn't use improvements, and most things I can think of that need fixing aren't even battle content anyway so another part of the team would likely be tasked with fixing it up anyway. I also really don't care what the NPCs are slapping mobs with as long as they're doing their jobs; we just need a better balance between roles in trusts to ease the experience for those of us who multitask capping their levels alongside our own.

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so, excuse me.. what?

"how many people are vouching for trusts"

you are aware that the number of people that use the forums is a VERY small percentage of actual players? are you also aware that, that even of that small percentage, a 2 page thread is a very small percentage? I wouldnt even glorify the amount with naming it a "fragment". I can think of MANY things in need of improvement which would be more useful. an upgrade for my faithful chocobo companion. crafting supplies in the saddlebag being seen as "on me", working in actual bans for people who buy gil, keeping a group in the same instance when exiting a dungeon (for those of us that experience an MMO with actual people). a right click reporting system for more than RMT. change the squadron system to I can be more than a "captain"

I realize for many using trusts, an FC or friends is not an option, and feel sad that is the case, but I think it would be far more important to fix the instance exit issue with being separated than adding "flex" to trusts

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

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I repeat myself: based on just the small group here, you can assume there's far less vocal people out there using trusts that don't post here? I straight up said that in my message. And I also tackled the fact that other content in the game is not all battle content that the team handling trust programming would also be tackling. You think the team doing that is working on the chocobo saddlebag, an entirely different aspect of the game, or the special task force dedicated to weeding out the RMT and bot issues is gonna be programming trusts?

Instances are temporary anyway, why does that need a dire fix? It lasts barely at all through an expansion, so by your logic, it shouldn't need any attention because it's a small bit of the game's experience.

This reminds me of how Y'shtola is a Black Mage strictly at this point in the story, but in Dissidia Opera Omnia they didn't give her a Black Mage version and instead made her a full white mage complete with Pulse of Life, blood lillies and Misery.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

They're actually not that inefficient. Trusts take about 30 minutes to complete a dungeon. 81+ Dungeons give a little bit under half a level. Praetorium is about a level for an hour or so, so they're about equal to that which a ton of people do. Unless you can get instant queues into the dungeons, they're actually a decent way to level.

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30 minutes for a dungeon is a really long time IMO...especially when dungeons with actual players take anywhere between 15 and 20 minutes to complete (usually 15 minutes)

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Originally Posted by Akimori

30 minutes for a dungeon is a really long time IMO...especially when dungeons with actual players take anywhere between 15 and 20 minutes to complete (usually 15 minutes)

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They don't, though. Most of my trust runs are 24-25 min. And my experience for running with actual players is that most runs take 15+ minutes, some slower ones even 20+ minutes. And the DPS queue time is 10+ minutes on my server.

Sure you can work on something else while queuing, but sometimes you just prefer to do some dungeon spam.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

He can. I even saved a clip of it from the first time I saw it happen.
https://twitter.com/Eusis_Landale/st...12505754390529

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Thancred has always had a large aggro radius, even since SHB. If you stand just inside a boss arena he will usually pull. That's all that happened in that clip. Some mob was in his detection circle so he put it on the threat table.

Why is it important how efficient Trusts are? They're just one more way to do dungeons.

I don't think we should reduce the game to only one way to do content to "save development time". More options are always better.

I remember in ARR, when everyone ran in circles in Northern Thanalan all day long, because it was just the only way to level for DPS. The tank and healer crisis was way worse back then, and the queues took much longer. That led to burnout, and I took a long break (multiple years), until I hesitantly gave XIV another chance.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

30 minutes for a dungeon is a really long time IMO...especially when dungeons with actual players take anywhere between 15 and 20 minutes to complete (usually 15 minutes)

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You're discounting the 10-15 minute queue time on DPS to get into the dungeon in the first place, when Trusts are instant.

You have 2 healers in the Trust in content that can only have 1 in dungeon that is what turns me off.
What is stopping them to have Avatar Urianger the Lithomancer treatment? Levelling Alphi and Urianger are a pain because their healing is not as reliable as tanking (and Thancred has been an amazing tank to heal, his Brutal Shell heals a lot, has Flash, superbolide and can hold aggro well) while Alphi and Urianger can easily stagger on healing depending on situation.

But yeah, more multi role trust would be welcome in general.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

You have 2 healers in the Trust in content that can only have 1 in dungeon that is what turns me off.
What is stopping them to have Avatar Urianger the Lithomancer treatment? Levelling Alphi and Urianger are a pain because their healing is not as reliable as tanking (and Thancred has been an amazing tank to heal, his Brutal Shell heals a lot, has Flash, superbolide and can hold aggro well) while Alphi and Urianger can easily stagger on healing depending on situation.

But yeah, more multi role trust would be welcome in general.

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Funnily, just like Trusts stop damaging while a telegraph mechanic is going out, they stop healing too sometimes. I was doing Dohn Mheg and that pesky first boss took a bit because I'd get hit by one of the whirlpools but my health wouldn't get touched until the entire mechanic ended.

Also the two-healer thing helped out at least in the two Trials we can do with them.

I just wish the Trust had "burst windows".
There is basically nothing in the game to teach burst windows to new players.
For example, why is Urianger not casting Divination occasionally and saying "Now! Strike with all thy might!"? This at the same time as Estinien using a tether on you and Alisaie uses Embolden.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Why is it important how efficient Trusts are? They're just one more way to do dungeons.

I don't think we should reduce the game to only one way to do content to "save development time". More options are always better.

I remember in ARR, when everyone ran in circles in Northern Thanalan all day long, because it was just the only way to level for DPS. The tank and healer crisis was way worse back then, and the queues took much longer. That led to burnout, and I took a long break (multiple years), until I hesitantly gave XIV another chance.

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I'd prefer better content over better trusts.
Also people did that because it was the fastest was to level until they nerfed fate xp in HW had nothing to do with the queue. I leveled Drk to 50 doing that cause it only took about 2 hours to get 20 levels.