Character Configuration Option for Positionals

Since most of the people on the forums like positionals, for some reason, and most of the people I talk to in game hate them, why not have a toggle for them in the Character Config to turn them on or off.

Can I have a toggle for cast times too?

And if you turn them off, which direction would yo go?

You can either disable the positional bonus, meaning you do less damage or do you keep the full positional bonus meaning you can do full damage with alot less effort?

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

And if you turn them off, which direction would yo go?

You can either disable the positional bonus, meaning you do less damage or do you keep the full positional bonus meaning you can do full damage with alot less effort?

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As someone that plays on controller I don't find it takes much effort to tilt the control stick left or right every few seconds. But that's just me.

I was thinking the easiest thing for the Devs to program if they were to do this is for the toggle to simply make all mobs omni directional. Not sure if you can do that on a per person basis.

So don't do positionals and accept the DPS penalty.

Positionals on a striking dummy are easy as sin I agree, but so is everything. Positionals in a raid open up a new section of the gameplay loop for melees where they need to interact with arena denial mechanics (ie, get out of melee / positioning for protean wave type mechanics) differently or take them into account for wider strategy development.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

As someone that plays on controller I don't find it takes much effort to tilt the control stick left or right every few seconds. But that's just me.

I was thinking the easiest thing for the Devs to program if they were to do this is for the toggle to simply make all mobs omni directional. Not sure if you can do that on a per person basis.

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I want to keep positionals as well, infact, I want them to add the positionals back to Monk. However, I'm just asking the obvious question of which side gets the short end of the stick. Since you suggest making everything omni-directional, that implies you want everyone to be able to hit all positionals and get full bonuses from it. This basically means it is optimal to have the setting on so that you never miss a positional, which defeats the purpose of the positionals in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

So don't do positionals and accept the DPS penalty.

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Considering that penalty is minimum, it's been said again and again that keeping uptime is far more valuable that holding a GCD for 0.05 seconds to get the positionnal.
The penalty is ridiculously low, you can actually ignore positionnals and perform very well.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Considering that penalty is minimum, it's been said again and again that keeping uptime is far more valuable that holding a GCD for 0.05 seconds to get the positionnal.
The penalty is ridiculously low, you can actually ignore positionnals and perform very well.

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No one is actually saying that you should stand in AoE/ ignore mechanics or miss a GCD to hit a positional.
It's not an either or.

Someone who is not ignoring positionals will perform better that is the point, and it's completely possible that it will be the difference between a wipe and a kill.
I'd say you've got a fairly loose definition of '' perform very well '', you can get kills and not cast a single Xeno or Sharpcast on BLM too but I wouldn't say that you're '' performing very well '' if you do.
When I think of someone performing well I think of someone who is actually making an effort to play properly not someone who is intentionally ignoring things and doing less damage on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I want to keep positionals as well, infact, I want them to add the positionals back to Monk. However, I'm just asking the obvious question of which side gets the short end of the stick. Since you suggest making everything omni-directional, that implies you want everyone to be able to hit all positionals and get full bonuses from it. This basically means it is optimal to have the setting on so that you never miss a positional, which defeats the purpose of the positionals in the first place.

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I think he's aware of this, he's basically making the argument that they should remove positionals and put in a fluff setting for those who like them to make it harder which no one would do.
Ultimately people just need to accept that this game is different and stop trying to change it... I am getting so sick and tired of it.
It'd be like complaining that a game like Tera or ESO is an action MMO and that it needs to be tab target.
Not quite as drastic but still.
Positionals is part of the game design and flow of FFXIV and it adds an extra level of uniqueness to the game over other MMO's.
It's fine not to like them but that doesn't mean that they're bad design or '' wrong '' and needs to be removed...

That's just entitlement.
Some people just gotta accept that not everything in existence is designed for them and play something different.
It's like people complaining about skimpy glams and trying to get them removed like holy shit just glam something else or if it bothers you so much play a different game...

Edit: Which btw people ask for toggles about skimpy glams too...
A toggle would make sense if things were getting censored and people wanted to play the original game as intended.
But just putting in toggles to appeal to very specific niches or petty hang-ups a very tiny minority has that is part of the game already just gets ridiculous and comes across as entitled.

In this case it'd be significantly more drastic and fundamentally change the game for melee too.
So it's like '' I don't like it, change it for me and screw everyone who likes what the game is already give them a token toggle ''.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I want to keep positionals as well, infact, I want them to add the positionals back to Monk. However, I'm just asking the obvious question of which side gets the short end of the stick. Since you suggest making everything omni-directional, that implies you want everyone to be able to hit all positionals and get full bonuses from it. This basically means it is optimal to have the setting on so that you never miss a positional, which defeats the purpose of the positionals in the first place.

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The point of a person doing positonals at that point is the simple point of them liking positionals. Why would someone climb Mt. Everest and chance frostbite or death. Cause they want the challenge. But I main DNC so I was just trying to think of a option that all might be ok with lol.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Positionals on a striking dummy are easy as sin I agree, but so is everything. Positionals in a raid open up a new section of the gameplay loop for melees where they need to interact with arena denial mechanics (ie, get out of melee / positioning for protean wave type mechanics) differently or take them into account for wider strategy development.

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Positionals are different imo than knowing when you need to go ranged for mechanics. Most people I've seen stream Ultimate or Savage content the melee floats on the line between the flank and rear moving very little till time to run out of melee range to do a mechanic. Meaning positional attacks don't matter at that point.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

So don't do positionals and accept the DPS penalty.

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I do. Frequently as a matter of fact. Mostly cause I've stopped caring, play DNC as a main, and don't even do Extreme trials anymore.

You seeing the streams is not the same as you seeing the strategies being formed or the logic that goes into the formation of those strategies. Congratulations you saw a Monk hitting both the rear and flanks for Brute Justice, but do you understand why he stands where he does when he does? The planning that has to be done so he and the drg can both get their positionals while at the same time not running into each other and leaving lanes of motion open to go to the enumeration stacks again without running over each other? The plotting of every greedable positional and how to capitalize on them when moving on the way to the judgment line?

It's easy enough to be an observer and say "it doesn't matter" and "I don't see it." It doesn't change that positionals add a layer to the optimization game for melees.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

You seeing the streams is not the same as you seeing the strategies being formed or the logic that goes into the formation of those strategies. Congratulations you saw a Monk hitting both the rear and flanks for Brute Justice, but do you understand why he stands where he does when he does? The planning that has to be done so he and the drg can both get their positionals while at the same time not running into each other and leaving lanes of motion open to go to the enumeration stacks again without running over each other? The plotting of every greedable positional and how to capitalize on them when moving on the way to the judgment line?

It's easy enough to be an observer and say "it doesn't matter" and "I don't see it." It doesn't change that positionals add a layer to the optimization game for melees.

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I jump around a lot from ranged to melee and it screws with my head sometimes, playing melee and casters in particular can be a very different experience.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I jump around a lot from ranged to melee and it screws with my head sometimes, playing melee and casters in particular can be a very different experience.

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For sure. It's those little metagames that I enjoy in this game personally, the way that a fight can be so drastically different just because one is playing a different role and it requires different layers of planning ahead.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Considering that penalty is minimum, it's been said again and again that keeping uptime is far more valuable that holding a GCD for 0.05 seconds to get the positionnal.
The penalty is ridiculously low, you can actually ignore positionnals and perform very well.

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Which is why the solution isn't to appease people who don't want to actually put in effort into the game by making every job reward them just for showing up and pressing buttons. Instead, it is to recognize that some jobs aren't going to appeal to everyone. What has happened to Monk is that the devs did try to cater specifically to such players, and now the job has fewer players taking it into endgame content than even during Shadowbringers. It is still unappealing, from a mechanical OR visual standpoint. Summoner produces considerably less DPS, yet tens of thousands more players are submitting parses for the job. The same can be said about Red Mage, Bard, and Dancer.

Positionals should not only be a significant bonus, players who purposefully refuse to do them should struggle to properly contribute to groups. In the case of Monk prior to Endwalker, such players should have produced at least 25%-50% less DPS than a "perfect" player who lands every single one. It should be very easy to notice when a raid fails a DPS check despite having one of the top raidDPS jobs in the game in their roster, a position that Monk sat comfortably in throughout Shadowbringers.

Players who didn't like that could have stayed as happy ranged DPS mains, though doubtlessly they'd have found something else to complain about. But if they wanted so badly to punch things for the ~aesthetic~, they should have learned how to play it right.

Note: it isn't always possible to land every positional. It almost never was possible. Sometimes the game does things to force you out of position, to force you to choose safety rather than dps. It's no different from Black Mages being forced out of leylines due to AoE or knockback or having a spell interrupted, or a Samurai or Bard missing their dot refresh, or a Ninja flubbing a jutsu. Stuff happens, mistakes happen. The fun isn't in having numbers handed to you, it's in working around the things that stop you from doing everything perfectly, and producing successful results despite what the devs are throwing your way.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

The point of a person doing positonals at that point is the simple point of them liking positionals. Why would someone climb Mt. Everest and chance frostbite or death. Cause they want the challenge. But I main DNC so I was just trying to think of a option that all might be ok with lol.

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But there is no reward. The whole idea behind positionals is to reward the players for putting in that extra bit of work. You can climb Mt. Everest and get a reward, or take a cable car up to make it easier (if there was one) and still get the same reward. Obviously, there is no cable car, so why should there be omni-directions on everything.

I'm not a fan of positionals, but they should have 1 or 2 jobs which utilize them, there's a ton of people who likes them and sucks not having a job that fits your gameplay