What has happened to Vana'diel? (Spoiler)

For anyone played since ARR, you would know that Vana'diel do exist in FF14's timeline and confirmed to be not one of the 14 shard.
This is evident in Black Mage's request line and first Black Mage relic weapon.
During the Black Mage soul stone the soul stone is referred to as "The Gem of Shatotto"

Base onMeteion's report, she basically confirmed there is no trace of life form left outside of Etheirys. Is this solid evident to say Vana'diel was destroyed already?

It could just be another world that Meteion didn't find. Or a parallel timeline, like the Exarch's bad future.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It could just be another world that Meteion didn't find. Or a parallel timeline, like the Exarch's bad future.

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This still doesn't make sense.
Exarch's bad future is our timeline and Exarch altering it by go to one of the shard
From Shatotto's speech in FF14, she is from different world by using her Black Magic

Vana'Diel exists in the same way that FF15 exists with Noctis visiting us through a 'magic portal'.

AKA an excuse to have a crossover.

Also Final Fantasy in general loves to reuse names all the time. FFXIV's Shantotto is not the same person as FFXI's Shantotto.

Are you talking about Shantotto or Shatotto?

Shatotto is not the same person as Shantotto since she's just a reference to her. We did have 2 XI event where 1 featured Shantotto coming to XIV's world and the other one being Iroha.

Give Roe's their tail back SE.

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Originally Posted by Dancingweapon

Give Roe's their tail back SE.

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Excuse you?

Galka.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Base onMeteion's report, she basically confirmed there is no trace of life form left outside of Etheirys. Is this solid evident to say Vana'diel was destroyed already?

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She only confirmed the planets she visited were dead, or about to become so. I have doubts she and her unknown amount of sisters were able to exoplore the entirety of the galaxy in so short of time.

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Originally Posted by Atamis

She only confirmed the planets she visited were dead, or about to become so. I have doubts she and her unknown amount of sisters were able to exoplore the entirety of the galaxy in so short of time.

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Yeah honestly how many Meteions did Hermes crank out of his factory?

1,000?

10,000?

1,000,000 Meteions?

We're gonna need a lot of bird seed.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Vana'Diel exists in the same way that FF15 exists with Noctis visiting us through a 'magic portal'.

AKA an excuse to have a crossover.

Also Final Fantasy in general loves to reuse names all the time. FFXIV's Shantotto is not the same person as FFXI's Shantotto.

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This ^

other games are different "dimensions", not other planets. Potentially other timelines but more likely entirely different realities. If they referred to Vana Diel as a "star" there'd be more cause to believe it was just another planet.. but IIRC it's called a "world".

Probably a different dimension. Like how the Ivalice we know from FFT is a different dimension than the Ivalice in FFXIV. Others have mentioned FFXV as well. I actually have a Shantotto minion from that event. It's not the same Vana'diel.

Think of it like a Final Fantasy multiverse.

Maybe the decision to depict the entire universe as being full of suicide planets wasn't the greatest idea after all.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Vana'Diel exists in the same way that FF15 exists with Noctis visiting us through a 'magic portal'.

AKA an excuse to have a crossover.

Also Final Fantasy in general loves to reuse names all the time. FFXIV's Shantotto is not the same person as FFXI's Shantotto.

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Basically all of this. If you've played ANY other Final Fantasy game, not only in the mainline numbered series but even the spinoffs, you'll be well aware that Square Enix loves to both re-use people's names AND location names. In FFXII, the airships were the names of common summons. Matoya was in FFXIV but that doesn't mean she's the same Matoya from FF1, and so on.

Metion didn't report not finding life anywhere, just not finding intelligent life that wasn't dying or already dead. And that was 10,000 years ago. A lot can happen in that span of time, not to mention as others have said, there's no way the Metions visited EVERY planet in the entire universe, or even entire galaxy, in such a short span. They found nothing but ruin on the hundred or so planets they visited and extrapolated an assumption that since they found no exceptions it must be the same everywhere, which was kind of stupid since they DID already have an exception to the rule in Etheria itself and if one exception can exist so can others.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

Metion didn't report not finding life anywhere, just not finding intelligent life that wasn't dying or already dead. And that was 10,000 years ago. A lot can happen in that span of time, not to mention as others have said, there's no way the Metions visited EVERY planet in the entire universe, or even entire galaxy, in such a short span. They found nothing but ruin on the hundred or so planets they visited and extrapolated an assumption that since they found no exceptions it must be the same everywhere, which was kind of stupid since they DID already have an exception to the rule in Etheria itself and if one exception can exist so can others.

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The story implies strongly that they went everywhere. Her nest is said to be at the farthest possible point in the universe, at the most distant endpoint. Her entire narrative is that everywhere she looked, she found the same thing. Her story is not "but I didn't look everywhere so maybe..."

The shards are fragments of the source when it was sundered.

The crossovers for FFXV and FFXI etc that brought characters from that game or world over were actual dimension hopping from a multiverse standpoint. The version of Gilgamesh that appeared in the mobile game Final Fantasy Mobius actually broke the 4th wall telling your character about said multiverse referencing hero characters from games throughout the main series and when asked how many stories there were going to be said something like "about 15 not counting spinoffs and side stories."

Just to reiterate, Shatotto from the black mage quests and relic is not the same as Shantotto. In the later black mage quests where you talk to her, she mentions confusion about the assumption that she has a habit of rhyming as a reference to Shantotto.

Also, technically Vana'Diel is destroyed. That world went through its own kind of sundering when it's mothercrystal was shattered into five pieces, and exists in a kind of less real state because of this. This is more headcanon territory, but it is my theory that that has led to a high degree of instability which is why there is so much in the game that involves other realities like Dynamis, the walk of echoes, Sea, wherever voidwalkers come from, promyvion, the summon crystals, escha, and so on and so forth.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

For anyone played since ARR, you would know that Vana'diel do exist in FF14's timeline and confirmed to be not one of the 14 shard.
This is evident in Black Mage's request line and first Black Mage relic weapon.
During the Black Mage soul stone the soul stone is referred to as "The Gem of Shatotto"

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Aside of the point already raised that Shatotto is not Shantotto, the BLM quest line is only evidence that someone called Shatotto once existed in FFXIV's world. It doesn't prove that it's the exact same person once seen in another game.

Seeing how many assets/designs from XI the reuse every expac ; I'd say Vana'diel is well and will continue to do so for a while

Considering that the narration seems to confuse "star" with "planet", I wouldn't be so sure that "Meteion explored the Universe" means "Meteion saw absolutely everything"

Not to mention that "Ultima Thule" is a medieval European expression metaphorically meaning "the furthest point from here in existence" - but literally meaning "farthest Scotland"... not exactly the most distant point, yes?

Depending on how canon you wish to consider events... Long ago, this was a thing https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...dens_Rhapsody/

7.0 expac: Return to Vana'diel.

Actually...Would anyone want something like this?
I haven't played XI but I think it'll be cool to see the game in modern times.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

7.0 expac: Return to Vana'diel.

Actually...Would anyone want something like this?
I haven't played XI but I think it'll be cool to see the game in modern times.

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There was a mobile remake that was canceled a while ago.
There were also rumors for "something big" for 20th anniversary next year ; but I haven't looked into that for a while.

(And yes : Vana'diel > Etheirys)

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The shards are fragments of the source when it was sundered.

The crossovers for FFXV and FFXI etc that brought characters from that game or world over were actual dimension hopping from a multiverse standpoint. The version of Gilgamesh that appeared in the mobile game Final Fantasy Mobius actually broke the 4th wall telling your character about said multiverse referencing hero characters from games throughout the main series and when asked how many stories there were going to be said something like "about 15 not counting spinoffs and side stories."

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Canon wise Gilgamesh is ALWAYS the same person, he jumps from one plane to another using the power of the Rift and he is a good actor being able to display several personas from serious to goofy. And yes is one of the most powerful characters of the entire franchise... when he feels like it since he tends hold back a lot in most of his personas

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Canon wise Gilgamesh is ALWAYS the same person, he jumps from one plane to another using the power of the Rift and he is a good actor being able to display several personas from serious to goofy. And yes is one of the most powerful characters of the entire franchise... when he feels like it since he tends hold back a lot in most of his personas

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Yep, he's one of a handful of characters in the franchise that can universe hop.

* Aforementioned Shantotto (her mini expansion was her developing the spell and it backfiring)
* Aforementioned Noctis (likely due to an Imperial experiment)
* Lightning (not just during her crossover, but also during her actual game)

We've gotten hints that Y'shtola may eventually find a way to travel between the shards via magic. If anyone in the XIV cast would be able to find a spell to go beyond just the Reflections but also to other universes, it would be her.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Considering that the narration seems to confuse "star" with "planet"

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I'm so glad to see someone else say this. It's the stupidest translation mistake ever and it grates on me like 10,000 nails on 10,000 chalkboards every time they do it. And everyone wants to defend it by pointing out that it's -technically- the correct translation of the precise Japanese word used. Be that as it may, it's still the wrong word to use in English. Precise word to word translation is what Google Translate does, not what we should see from human translators who should know better.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

I'm so glad to see someone else say this. It's the stupidest translation mistake ever and it grates on me like 10,000 nails on 10,000 chalkboards every time they do it. And everyone wants to defend it by pointing out that it's -technically- the correct translation of the precise Japanese word used. Be that as it may, it's still the wrong word to use in English. Precise word to word translation is what Google Translate does, not what we should see from human translators who should know better.

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Just gonna point out that "star" is an old timey way of referring to a planet. So, no... it's not stupid or a mistranslation, considering a lot of dated dialog the game uses. It's fits the world of the game perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Just gonna point out that "star" is an old timey way of referring to a planet. So, no... it's not stupid or a mistranslation, considering a lot of dated dialog the game uses. It's fits the world of the game perfectly.

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I'm sorry, but I reject this explanation too. Think about it: When ancient peoples called the planets they saw in the sky stars it's because they were too primitive to know what they really were, and how they varied from actual stars (save that their position in the sky wasn't 'fixed.') It would never have occurred to them to think of the world beneath their feet as a star, or of the planets in the sky as worlds. Therefore, in universe, either the people of Etheria are not advanced enough to know, in which case they wouldn't call their planet a 'star' because such a thing wouldn't occur to them, or they are advanced enough (which seems to be the case) in which case they wouldn't call the planet a star because they wouldn't want to sound like fricking idiots. Either way, in real life terms this is a translation error born of supposedly intelligent payed translators failing to pay attention to semantics and just stupidly running with the easy (but semantically wrong) direct translation.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

I'm sorry, but I reject this explanation too. Think about it: When ancient peoples called the planets they saw in the sky stars it's because they were too primitive to know what they really were, and how they varied from actual stars (save that their position in the sky wasn't 'fixed.') It would never have occurred to them to think of the world beneath their feet as a star, or of the planets in the sky as worlds. Therefore, in universe, either the people of Etheria are not advanced enough to know, in which case they wouldn't call their planet a 'star' because such a thing wouldn't occur to them, or they are advanced enough (which seems to be the case) in which case they wouldn't call the planet a star because they wouldn't want to sound like fricking idiots. Either way, in real life terms this is a translation error born of supposedly intelligent payed translators failing to pay attention to semantics and just stupidly running with the easy (but semantically wrong) direct translation.

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So you being ignorant of the origin of words and so on means something in a given piece of media is stupid, wrong, or mistranslated? Okay. If I sound snarky it's because I am. I'm also sleep deprived which makes it worse but w/e.

Given that it's clear the ancients are heavily based on ancient Greek culture and such, and the origin of the word planet is greek and meant star...
Asteres planetai or "wandering stars" for what ancient Greeks saw in the sky vs what they thought were asteres aplaneis or "fixed stars" (most Greeks thought Earth was this)... I say again, the use of the word "star" in the game to refer to Etheirys (since you can't even be bothered to get the name of the world right...) is correct.

Not having a large vocab or knowledge of the origin of certain things isn't a crime but for crying out loud, a quick google search lit anywhere could have told you this, come on. Even wikipedia (which isn't a credible source if you're writing a paper or w/e, so don't use it) gets this right.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

So you being ignorant of the origin of words and so on means something in a given piece of media is stupid, wrong, or mistranslated? Okay. If I sound snarky it's because I am. I'm also sleep deprived which makes it worse but w/e.

Given that it's clear the ancients are heavily based on ancient Greek culture and such, and the origin of the word planet is greek and meant star...
Asteres planetai or "wandering stars" for what ancient Greeks saw in the sky vs what they thought were asteres aplaneis or "fixed stars" (most Greeks thought Earth was this)... I say again, the use of the word "star" in the game to refer to Etheirys (since you can't even be bothered to get the name of the world right...) is correct.

Not having a large vocab or knowledge of the origin of certain things isn't a crime but for crying out loud, a quick google search lit anywhere could have told you this, come on. Even wikipedia (which isn't a credible source if you're writing a paper or w/e, so don't use it) gets this right.

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Okay, so, a few things...

First, I would say that the ignorant insult is uncalled for since no one can know everything, but I'll let it go since I'm just as guilty in having used words like 'stupid' and 'idiot' when I should have been more careful.

Second, I suppose I should have looked things up first. But I have in fact read up on astronomy at varying time in my life and not one of the books I read gave the definitions for 'fixed star' and 'wandering star' that you give. Not a one of them said that 'planetai' just meant star and was modified by another word to mean either fixed or wandering, they all just defined 'planet' as 'wandering star.' This is also what I was taught in school (which in fairness, sadly, often isn't the best source) and so I went with what I thought was accurate based on what I'd already learned.

Third, yes, I didn't spell Etheirys correctly. My bad.

Fourth, I did acknowledge, all along, that 'star' is correct in antiquated usage. But it just sticks out like a sore thumb in modern usage, which is closer than not to how everyone in the game except Urianger speaks most of the time. I haven't a word to say about Urianger using star in that way, and if everyone talked in a more old-timey manner I wouldn't have a word to say about them using it either. Even accepting the correct old meaning of the word, it just doesn't seem right when inserted into the middle of an otherwise modern sentence.

In any case, I had no intention of upsetting you or anyone else and I apologize if I did.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

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Let me be clear, here. I don't have an issue with you personally (don't know you, after all), but as you acknowledged, you came off poorly, and me, in my already irritable state, took issue. As I said, it isn't a crime to lack knowledge of something; hell, I couldn't remember for sure (insomnia rearing its head, yay)and had to double check to make sure I wasn't imagining it and talking out my butt. However, speaking for myself personally, I (try to, anyway) look into things first before making a claim. That's all.

That said, for the reasons already stated, using "star" in this context works, and Urianger is hardly the only one to speak in a more antiquated fashion throughout the story. Many (nearly everyone, really) using the world "pray" to indicate a plea or request (insert "pray return to the Waking Sands" meme here), for example. There's a lot of antiquated words used throughout the game, and it works given the setting of the world. While I do take issues with certain actual, weird changes (some of Estinien's dialog being reduced or just turned into "..." wtf?), the use of "star" isn't one of them. Again, it actually is used correctly given the setting.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

This ^

other games are different "dimensions", not other planets. Potentially other timelines but more likely entirely different realities. If they referred to Vana Diel as a "star" there'd be more cause to believe it was just another planet.. but IIRC it's called a "world".

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Yeah, they're generally all different realities, with the possible sometimes exception of X being considered a distant past on a different planet to VII, and the Ivalice entries being different times of the same world.

Though the idea that Gil (Whom is usually the same person every time, but not always (unless his vastly different characterizations in some games, like XI are him having non lineal character development)) managed to survive intact traveling between worlds casually when two vastly more powerful entities were driven to despair does entertain me.

This does open doors for the real Gods to appear, but also Vana'diel is in another time and different universe as what Yoshida Stated, but their is a possibility, because Shantotto did travel to different universes of Vana'diel and some had a doppelganger of her who is evil and another world that is Vana'diel but with a different name "Etheirys"??? Also another world called Tartarus where Balamor lives and Sel'Theus was taking light from all these other worlds to re create a new mother crystal. Ascians are very much alike the Zilart in every way, always trying to seek Paradise and cause of their ways to seek Paradise it became their downfall, so it does resemble FF11 in somewhat of a way and FF12 but mostly 11 MSQ.
But the doors are open for Vana'diel to be the 1st FF series to be converted if they want to change up the series and have them collide in a multiverse deal, however Their is no gods or goddesses in the universe of ff14 but cause of what Meteoin did may have awoken some gods for tapping into their divine energy. Altana and Promathia are a possibility to be in 14 if they play their cards right.
Hoping they do bring some real deities.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Excuse you?

Galka.

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This needs more likes.

Etheirys is just another Copy of Vana'diel
, different universes of Vana'diel itself like where Shantotto met her Belle Shantotto and other Vana'diel's with different names like Tartarus where Hades and Balamor are from but it's a different Vana'diel or world and yes Vana'diel has copies of itself with different universes like the Abyssea Universe or where Lady Lilith is from because Lilisette fights the void from her world.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

This needs more likes.

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Im about to start a flame war with Dark Knight fanboys.......Zeid was better than Fray.