Nuking WHM stats

I'm wanting to put together a nuke set for whm but i'm a bit lost on the specifics on mage stats for this game. Is aero/stone affected by INT like blm/thm spells, or is it MND? or is the elemental+ stat by far more effective? Any help/info on tests that have been done would be amazing. I think with the DoT's, enfeebs, chainspell, and rediculous mp recovering abilities, whm could be an offensive RDM/geomancer type job. With the right equipment that is.

Stats are the same, it's not dumb like FF11 where everything had different modifiers from everything else. INT and Magic attack potency will boost CNJ/WHM nukes just like they do for THM. There's very little if any overlap of INT/M Attack so I don't think you will have to pick between one or the other.

Concerning Elemental Potency vs. Magic Attack: Magic Attack is general purpose but Elemental Potency comes in larger numbers. It's up to you but most people will go for the Magic Attack.

WHM is really good at nuking, the problem really is that two of the three most prominent slots for magic attack potency or INT, Head and Feet, are most likely going to be taken up by the REALLY GOOD AF pieces available in those slots. You could probably get away with using an INT headpiece instead of the AF head, but that Regen boost on boots is just too good.

whm can do decent damage but a damage build is a lil silly i think. that's what cleric stance is for. But if you insist, what i would do is use rings for damage, since you can change them easy, and use food:crown cake" to boost amp and int. That way you don't have to commit to the damage build on your gear.

A damage setup isn't too farfetched since it makes a big difference if you actually gear up for it. My nuking set vs my non-nuking set is around the realm of 100 magic attack and 50 INT difference, which is really significant. If you have any intention of playing BLM, you can have both BLM and WHM use the same nuking armor pieces anyway.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

A damage setup isn't too farfetched since it makes a big difference if you actually gear up for it. My nuking set vs my non-nuking set is around the realm of 100 magic attack and 50 INT difference, which is really significant. If you have any intention of playing BLM, you can have both BLM and WHM use the same armor pieces anyway.

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Theres no reason t have a whm with a damage build though. they dont have third tier damage spells and their role is to heal. They can assist in damage when the time allows but the dont wanna to to much damage anyway because they dont wanna build more hate then needed. Theres really no good reason to have a DD whm. Like i said above, that's what cleric stance is for.

i can see having a DD gear set for cnj for soloing, but thats a different story.

It's just useful to have when fighting trash enemies or during XP/spiritbond groups. In non-boss situations you can usually throw up stoneskin on everyone, Regen whoever takes dmg, then go to town nuking. It's better than just standing there at full MP. On older bosses like Deepvoid Slave and Ifrit you can get away with wearing nuking gear and speed up kills significantly/kill nails/cover dmg because your pickup members can't stay alive/etc.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

It's just useful to have when fighting trash enemies or during XP/spiritbond groups. In non-boss situations you can usually throw up stoneskin on everyone, Regen whoever takes dmg, then go to town nuking. It's better than just standing there at full MP. On older bosses like Deepvoid Slave and Ifrit you can get away with wearing nuking gear and speed up kills significantly/kill nails/cover dmg because your pickup members can't stay alive/etc.

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See this is the problem I have with WHMs who focus on damage too much. While most of your sentiment is true, your last line "pick up damage because your pick up group members can't stay alive" is the problem. If your party members die, you failed your role. They're your responsibility as long as they're not getting one shot (and I mean one shot, if they have ANY HP after getting hit they're still your responsibility). While you can nuke, never forget that you're a healer first and foremost.

Until new jobs are added, i'm going to take old jobs and put new twists on them. I know how to heal. Now I want to go against the grain and try to do damage with a healing class. Same as a DD gld. or a tank pug. Just something fun/different.

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Originally Posted by Sol_Aureus

See this is the problem I have with WHMs who focus on damage too much. While most of your sentiment is true, your last line "pick up damage because your pick up group members can't stay alive" is the problem. If your party members die, you failed your role. They're your responsibility as long as they're not getting one shot (and I mean one shot, if they have ANY HP after getting hit they're still your responsibility). While you can nuke, never forget that you're a healer first and foremost.

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When I mention pickup members can't stay alive, i solely mean for Ifrit. There is a point you have to give up on people if they literally cannot avoid a single eruption an entire fight or they otherwise run over to other people and get them killed after you nag at them constantly not to do so. I'm one of the few WHMs apparently who do keep the melees up in Ifrit by tossing Regens/Curagas out, there is more than enough time to do. Ifrit requires everyone to do their part by helping you out by covering their own ass by avoiding Eruptions/Plumes. I'm sure you know when people are just atrocious at avoiding them it's just too far beyond anything you can do.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

When I mention pickup members can't stay alive, i solely mean for Ifrit. There is a point you have to give up on people if they literally cannot avoid a single eruption an entire fight or they otherwise run over to other people and get them killed after you nag at them constantly not to do so. I'm one of the few WHMs apparently who do keep the melees up in Ifrit by tossing Regens/Curagas out, there is more than enough time to do. Ifrit requires everyone to do their part by helping you out by covering their own ass by avoiding Eruptions/Plumes. I'm sure you know when people are just atrocious at avoiding them it's just too far beyond anything you can do.

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While it's true that a lot of people are terribad like that, as far as I'm concerned until their HP hits 0 they're still my responsibility. For Ifrit specifically, if after glowing phase starts and he's doing 3 and they just stand there, yeah, they're dead. Nothing you can do about that. If they're running eruptions into your mages or tank, that's the dumb DD's problem, not yours. Your problem is keeping them (and they people they almost kill) alive. As dumb as they may be, no one can fault you for keeping your party members alive as a WHM.

Thing is, WHM's damage is bad compared to other DD classes. By a lot. Yes, we can do damage. But a DRG, MNK, WAR, MNK, BLM will do more. As dumb as they may be, keeping that dumb DD alive will end up being more beneficial than nuking 99% of the time.

My point is, even if someone is really dumb and constantly gets hit by stuff, as long as they have more than 0 HP it's much more beneficial for the party for you to cure them as opposed to nuking.

There's a difference between people that get hit by 1/3 eruptions while running away (they live so of course it's possible to be Cured) and people that stand there or those that Chaos Thrust/Bloodletter/whatever long animation WS every single time. If they are dying that often they are wasting valuable Raises. I'm specifically talking about people getting instakilled by stuff. It's not a situation of "Oh that guy got hit I am going to nuke before I heal him", it is "Oh that guy is dead for the 4th time in 2 minutes, the rest of the party is perfectly fine, I am going to toss out a nuke"

Conversely, when you have a good group and you want to knock 15-30 seconds off your kill times, having a WHM who knows how to judiciously balance healing and nuking is a huge boon. Because of how powerful Healer's Robe and Boots are, a WHM can replace every other slot with pure nuking gear and still be a competent healer.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Conversely, when you have a good group and you want to knock 15-30 seconds off your kill times, having a WHM who knows how to judiciously balance healing and nuking is a huge boon. Because of how powerful Healer's Robe and Boots are, a WHM can replace every other slot with pure nuking gear and still be a competent healer.

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This

/10char

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Originally Posted by carraway

Conversely, when you have a good group and you want to knock 15-30 seconds off your kill times, having a WHM who knows how to judiciously balance healing and nuking is a huge boon. Because of how powerful Healer's Robe and Boots are, a WHM can replace every other slot with pure nuking gear and still be a competent healer.

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This. most of the times stoneskin, regens are enough and you have plenty of mp you can spend on nuking.

I am actually a real fan of the DD WHM (hereafter referred to as White Cleric). Yes, the DPS is lower than most other classes including Black Mage. BUT...!

- Your MP to damage ratio is as good as, if not better than a Thaumaturge (I didn't say black mage, due to Convert).

- You don't need to go as fast as a Black Mage can, because that is a recipe for stealing hate. Even using White Cleric against Ifrit, I still find I'm slowing down to avoid having the king of the inferno shove his claws down my collarbone.

- A Black Mage using tier 3 spells in a long fight is doing it wrong anyway. You don't need tier 3 spells. As a white cleric, I swap between aero and stone, only using stonera or aeora if there is a specific elemental weakness the mob has or I must remove a buff.

- If something goes wrong (and it does more often than any of us would like to admit), you have amazing survival capabilities (Stoneskin, Sentinel, Rampart, Featherfoot) and recovery abilities handy (Second Wind, White Magic).

- You have debuffs that other classes don't. Magic Evasion Down is good for the black mages comboing thunder-thundara and a powerful aero's bleed effect is nothing to sneeze at.

- Your MP recovery is far more reliable and less life-threatening than with black magic.

- Against lesser mobs, just about anything works anyway.

- You have a "Holy F***" button.

- You don't have to worry as much about positioning due to the ability to attack at range and you don't have to worry about your arrows running out at just the wrong time either.


You can swap your Healer's Gloves out for a Boarskin Ringband of Tremors or Gales. Likewise your Cirlet and Robe to whatever you would wear as a Thaumaturge. Pull on some Black Pearl or Zircon Rings, equip a Jade Crook double-melded for buffing or attacking and you're more than set.


Yes, I have no objections to class-stacking white mages.
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A set for aero is very effective just as others have said fulltime the whm boots, body, and if you have them darklight gloves. You can stack DD gear in the other slots.

Be interesting to see Ramuh/Titan if they ever come out. Since thunder spells would be rendered pretty much useless and fire spells are so inefficient on single target I could see people using CNJ/WHM as DDs.

Or, god forbid, even melees!

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Yes, I have no objections to class-stacking white mages.

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So full of win :)
Was farming Darkhold yesterday with LS for seals and healing tank on Batraal, had so much time on 2nd run and after I was nuking and doing decent dmg + helping the BLM with m.eva down.
A good whm can rotate heals/buffs and dmg/debuffs with regen now, sometimes that min or two can get that 5 chest
Having 2 whm in a pt :say 1 MND/VIT and 1 MND/INT build might be a good thing

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Originally Posted by Tango

A set for aero is very effective just as others have said fulltime the whm boots, body, and if you have them darklight gloves. You can stack DD gear in the other slots.

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In my experience the Aero line is trash compared to the Stone line. Stone and Stonera hit much harder than Aero and, especially, Aerora. Unless the DoT component in Aero somehow scales in a ridiculous fashion, I'd say go for Earth Magic Potency instead.

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Originally Posted by Frein

In my experience the Aero line is trash compared to the Stone line. Stone and Stonera hit much harder than Aero and, especially, Aerora. Unless the DoT component in Aero somehow scales in a ridiculous fashion, I'd say go for Earth Magic Potency instead.

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Which spell to use varies with the foe you are against. Some mobs are rather vulnerable to earth and resist wind and vice-versa.

If you've mostly been fighting common Amal'jaa or Ixal, for example, such an Earth is better than Wind experience is expected.

The impact of this is most noticeable in some of the Thanalan leves. Dodos and Aldgoats, for example, have opposite weaknesses on the wind/earth scale.


The real reason to recommend Earth over Wind is because Earth magic grants the Magic Evasion Down status, which is more valuable than Aero's bleed, so you'll want to be using stone more often for that reason.