Ew Spoiler Content and Trigger warning on Quests

So I've just finished a segment of the in endwalker main senario and well I really really wish there was a content or trigger warning to warn us about just how dark and bad it is. I know you told us in live letters it was going to be bleak but this requires more warning than that.

I also wish after the end of those quests you gave us the hotline prevention number because it's absolutely important to remind people that's not okay.

Mental health is no joke and NPCs commiting suicide isn't ok, even if it's implied.

Offer us the choice to know that something like that is happening so we can prepare ourselves for it, instead of seeing it, being blindsided and then be reminded of real world losses and not want to play.

I took time off ffxiv because of that quest as it was messed up and I'm currently dealing with a pet loss and lost a cousin two years ago to suicide.

So yeah a bit more warning next time.
No I'm not okay.

This already happened in Stormblood.

They did.

Advice for consumers
This game has received a PEGI 16 because it features strong and sustained depictions of violence, as well as prominent use of tobacco. Not suitable for persons under 16 years of age.

Brief outline of the game
Expansion for the role-playing game FINAL FANTASY XIV.

Content specific issues
The majority of the game's violence is mild or moderate, featuring characters taking part in turn-based battles with little injury detail shown.
However, cutscenes feature more graphic and realistic violence.
The game includes a scene of implied suicide, in which a character is seen holding a loaded gun to their head.
The suicide is not shown, although the character's dead body is subsequently shown, with a blood stained wall also visible.
The game features scenes in which characters derive a benefit from smoking a pipe.

Checking the ESRB/PEGI rating next time for any games you want to play will help.

But they didn't. The PGEI/ESRB mention it, but The problem with it is that they don't tell you explicitly which quest or cutscene it will happen in and if you skip the story you lose context of characters going forward.

All they need to do in game is put up a content Warning on the particular quest or make those happen in optional cutscenes and not baked into the msq.

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

NPCs commiting suicide isn't ok, even if it's implied.

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Clearly you must have never read any classic literature or seen any classic theatre (I'm talking Shakespeare and the like).

So you were presumably fine with Zenos' self-oof in stormblood? And Shiva's self-oof by way of sacrifice?

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

But they didn't. The PGEI/ESRB mention it, but The problem with it is that they don't tell you explicitly which quest or cutscene it will happen in and if you skip the story you lose context of characters going forward.

All they need to do in game is put up a content Warning on the particular quest or make those happen in optional cutscenes and not baked into the msq.

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But then you will run into the other side of this coin: potential spoilers. Adding a trigger warning—and I’m guessing you will want a specific one of “T/W: depictions/reference of suicide”—would then lead to people getting mad about a major event being spoiled. So it’s kind of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation from a developer perspective. People don’t want spoilers, but then also want T/W. I don’t know of a way to have both; not in a scenario like what you seem to wish for.

I have also lost someone to suicide. I actually posted about it on here. So I understand completely where you are coming from. I’m just thinking of this from a more neutral standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

But they didn't. The PGEI/ESRB mention it, but The problem with it is that they don't tell you explicitly which quest or cutscene it will happen in and if you skip the story you lose context of characters going forward.

All they need to do in game is put up a content Warning on the particular quest or make those happen in optional cutscenes and not baked into the msq.

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Here are my two cents on discussions like this:

No. Absolutely not.

Trigger warnings are a cancer that should be purged from all forms of entertainment media, not just FFXIV.

Besides the already obvious issue of TWs spoiling upcoming scenes and completely eliminating the element of surprise, TWs like the ones you’re proposing are extremely intrusive to the story and will completely break immersion, not to mention treating its audience like fragile infants who can’t distinguish fiction from reality.

Content ratings like the MPAA, ESRB, CERO, Pegi, etc are more than sufficient for viewer discretion, as they’ve always been for decades now.

And personally? I think that the vocal minority constantly demanding trigger warnings for any forms of entertainment don’t deserve trigger warnings. What they deserve instead is for said entertainment product taken away from them.

Why, you ask? Because if you constantly demand intrusive trigger warnings before every single scene depicting mature content, you’re either:

1. Not yet mentally and emotionally mature enough to consume said mature scene. Hence, you shouldn’t be consuming said media until you are mentally ready/mature enough.

2. Have serious underlying mental/emotional issues that have gone untreated for so long that it’s seriously impacting your ability to even just peacefully consume and enjoy entertainment media. In this case, you don’t need trigger warnings; what you need is professional help and treatment, and I do not mean that as an insult. No really, get some help. I’m serious.

Actually I was not okay with either of those.

Endwalker as it is was shown to be a dark expansion anyways, the deaths and the questionable actions taken during the entire MSQ just portrays how dark and unforgiving the situation is. story wise its an amazing way to dig into it, and they're not apologetic about it. StormBlood Was an expansion of war, clashing of ideologies and just a drag to run due to all the oppositions that took then and there, EndWalker is an expansion that dives into nihilism, the will to live, the stubbornness of one being too loyal to something as well as the lengths and actions someone will take when the situation is too much to bear.

Its a reflection, and it is done as safe as it is. the blood on the flag as a symbolism to how Quintus was truly a man of Garlemald who was stubborn and would rather die than have things change. Zenos was a misbegotten youth who knew nothing but conflict and finally feeling something, SOMETHING, has decided that this is it and his life fulfilled he has nothing left to make him feel the same way again. And Shiva as it was- yes Heroic but also tragic.

So I agree that Trigger Warnings are not good with this game. And I won't say I'm an expert- but if you can't stomach it, then there are other ways to mitigate it. not everyone shares your beliefs in psychology- some heal faster than others and some heal slower than others and being an "Expert" more often than not only feeds one side without looking at the other.

So if it is too much for you, accept it as it is- Hell Matsya has the right of it!
The entire Thavnair storyline has the right of it.

So if it truly bothers you so, then skip it. click away fast, something.
but never push the need for something niche into a game that has focused itself into the hard and deep story it is known for, and I do say this kindly,
maybe don't easily relate yourself to everything in a story, cause you're not the only one going through shit, everyone does- so there's no need for the whole "Trigger Warning" or "Stop Edgy Content" debate, its the tone of the story- some will like it, some won't, some will have problems with it, some others won't.

Its an experience, and an experience shouldn't be watered down due to unrelated discomfort.

They could literally put the trigger warning next to the Quest sync text or when it asks you about long cutscenes. Or even putting it in a system menu so it will auto skip it for us. That literally all we are really asking for.

It's not immersion breaking or even intrusive.

While some people might not like it or don't want change. Some of us are just asking for an Accomodation to cater to mental health the same way you would a physical disability...


The issue is that I won't know to skip it if I don't know or realize or recognize that it's going to happen until after it has.
All we want is a heads up or something to let us know.

And this is a sentiment that is shared across the forums. It's not just me asking for it. I'm advocating for it on behalf of myself, those who won't speak up and those who can stomach it and still want it anyway.

Snazzington, what you typed up is well said, but I guess we are going to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

But then you will run into the other side of this coin: potential spoilers. Adding a trigger warning—and I’m guessing you will want a specific one of “T/W: depictions/reference of suicide”—would then lead to people getting mad about a major event being spoiled. So it’s kind of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation from a developer perspective. People don’t want spoilers, but then also want T/W. I don’t know of a way to have both; not in a scenario like what you seem to wish for.

I have also lost someone to suicide. I actually posted about it on here. So I understand completely where you are coming from. I’m just thinking of this from a more neutral standpoint.

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Seeing how there is information about which potentially sensitive topics are included in a game in the form of age ratings and descriptions provided by official, even though outside sources, I'd say it is already possible to have both - I'd go so far to say that we already have both.

Anyone who is concerned that a game (or movie or other form of media) might contain something that has the potential to trigger them, should have the responsibility to use those sources available to them to make sure it doesnt - just how you'd check those sources before giving a game to a child. The information is out there, its not even very well hidden - there is the triggerwarning that people are seeking. Anyone whos actually concerned about their mental health can and should look those things up before consuming any type of media - and not expect that the media itself will make such disclaimers.

FFXIV has a record of touching on darker subjects, so its not like this came out of the blue in a childrens game. Rating boards and things like PEGI exist for a reason - people should use those tools if they want to protect themselves from triggering content, while anyone who isnt (that) concerned about it can enjoy a spoiler-free experience. Best of both worlds, I'd say.

I think a possible compromise between trigger warnings and spoiler mindfullness would be to make trigger warnings something you can enable or disable in the settings. With trigger warnings enabled, you would get a popup warning you about what's about to happen, so you can decide for yourself if you are gonna be fine to see it or not. With trigger warnings disabled, it would be exactly like it is now.

I think this might be the wrong game for the kinds of entertainment / experiences you seek to engage with and avoid, but I do completely understand your desire to be warned and mindful about the content you are engaging with. There is no good solution for what may affect people from individual to individual, as many of these experiences are quite subjective to others (Fandaniel really resonated with me for example, where others despised him).
Gotta say please don't take to heart all that is being said by some others because the uh, vitriol is a bit concerning lol.

I'm triggered right now myself. Not because of the subject of this topic, but how and the manner to which I am forced to meet Zenos.

And the manner that it happened. I don't care what kind of Magitek contraption they have available. What happened should NOT be able to happen. Emet, neither Elidibus, nor Lahabrea could perform such a feat. Why? Because the WoL is protected from such actions, even with Hydaelyn's waning powers. To allow it so is nothing more than contrived writing to allow it to happen.

Blade & Soul did the exact same thing in chapters 8 and 9. Contrivances no matter how small do nothing but unravel the foundation of the story. In my opinion, 11 years of story concerning the WoL was undone by this single act by Fandaniel's "bovine excrement!"

One thing for sure, my 6 alts will never see the light of Endwalker and more than likely I will delete them. This should never have been done in the first place. As a writer and developer myself, this was the wrong track to take the story. Personally, it is all I can do to not to unsub and delete my account. I'm very angry about this and disappointed in YoshiP and his crew for doing so.

I didn't say all were selfish, you inferred that.

What I was saying was I felt shiva's was heroic and Zeno's was selfish. There's nothing more to be said.

In any case a setting in the menus would very much help with these kinds of triggers.

Language that involves saying or implying that any victims of suicide went out with a selfish act is problematic; as someone who currently sees a psychiatrist for anxiety and also knew people who unfortunately killed themselves, I find that behavior in this thread to much be more offensive than a fantasy game not more immediately warning you of an upcoming suicide right before it happens despite that already happening in past expansions, involving major spoilers, and being talked about in content rating descriptions before you buy new content.

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

I didn't say all were selfish, you inferred that.

What I was saying was I felt shiva's was heroic and Zeno's was selfish. There's nothing more to be said.

In any case a setting in the menus would very much help with these kinds of triggers.

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This doesn’t have anything to really do with the thread topic, but I think you’re misconstruing Ysayle’s/Shiva’s death. Did she go into it knowing she likely wouldn’t live? Highly possible. But I personally wouldn’t even classify that as a suicide. So, in my mind, what she did and what Zenos did aren’t even comparable.

That said, perhaps you should try to understand why people commit suicide in the first place. It is hardly ever because they are being selfish—and usually because they see no other way out of their suffering. I had a dear friend who chose to end his life a few years back, and it’s insulting to him and his memory for anyone to imply that he was being selfish with what he did. I can’t excuse it because I still can’t wrap my own head around the reasons why, but it’s no one’s place to call any suicide victim selfish.



On topic, I still stand by what I said in that trigger warnings aren’t needed. I welcome you to read the study I linked. And perhaps consider how they fail to do much to actually help people when it comes to healing. Teaching avoidance isn’t healing anything. It’s teaching you to hide.

Having a pop up similar to "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence" that instead say "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence and some of them may include triggering imagery" is not that immersion breaking or spoilery, and I think people's mental health is more important than something like spoilers in a video game story.

How do you even get through the expacs at all lol

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Originally Posted by postingway

Having a pop up similar to "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence" that instead say "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence and some of them may include triggering imagery" is not that immersion breaking or spoilery, and I think people's mental health is more important than something like spoilers in a video game story.

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As someone who doesn't need trigger warnings, being told "there will be triggering imagery" would itself set me in a state of unease.

The thing is, from a "good storytelling" perspective, that warning turns everything upside down. Instead of being shocked in the moment, you spend the whole scene anticipating that something worth a trigger warning is going to happen, and then a release of tension that it's over. Instead of being surprised and reeling in the aftermath.

Or if they do the thing where they play three or four different cutscenes one after another, and the triggering thing happens in the third scene, you're unnecessarily worried and distracted throughout the first two scenes by the expectation that something will go bad, when actually it won't and you're not supposed to expect it at all.

And what happens then if they want to show a second triggering thing within the same cutscene? Do they need to give us a count?


Also it is definitely spoilery, non-stop. Get a trigger warning? Something bad's going to happen, even if it seems like a happy scene right now. Things are looking dire? Nah, there wasn't a warning this time, it'll all get resolved without drama. It seems like an inside-out way to experience the entire plot.


If someone is really genuinely traumatised by a specific thing they can't bear to see mentioned or portrayed in a story, it's on them to seek out detailed information about what the story will show – like the PEGI ratings discussed in post #3 – to ensure that they will not come across that personal trigger. The resources are there for you to protect yourself if you need it, without affecting anyone else's game experience.

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Originally Posted by postingway

Having a pop up similar to "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence" that instead say "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence and some of them may include triggering imagery" is not that immersion breaking or spoilery, and I think people's mental health is more important than something like spoilers in a video game story.

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If you believe that mental health is important, you should realize that trigger warnings are not helpful to peoples' mental health. Someone posted an article explaining that earlier in the topic.

You should also realize that there already are warnings, ESRB/PEGI put warnings of these kinds of things in their detailed ratings, as was mentioned before.

Pegi's website:

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FINAL FANTASY XIV: Endwalker
Square Enix Ltd Expansion for the role-playing game FINAL FANTASY XIV.
Release Dates & Platforms:

07/12/2021 - PC

Advice for consumers

This game has received a PEGI 16 because it features strong and sustained depictions of violence, as well as prominent use of tobacco. Not suitable for persons under 16 years of age.
Brief outline of the game

Expansion for the role-playing game FINAL FANTASY XIV.
Content specific issues

The majority of the game's violence is mild or moderate, featuring characters taking part in turn-based battles with little injury detail shown. However, cutscenes feature more graphic and realistic violence. The game includes a scene of implied suicide, in which a character is seen holding a loaded gun to their head. The suicide is not shown, although the character's dead body is subsequently shown, with a blood stained wall also visible. The game features scenes in which characters derive a benefit from smoking a pipe.
Other issues

The game also contains use of bad language.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

If you believe that mental health is important, you should realize that trigger warnings are not helpful to peoples' mental health. Someone posted an article explaining that earlier in the topic.

You should also realize that there already are warnings, ESRB/PEGI put warnings of these kinds of things in their detailed ratings, as was mentioned before.

Pegi's website:

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The issue here is that we don't have access to PEGI in game, nor is it listed on Square Website. You'd have to know to go there and look.

I didn't know about PEGI until this thread. And have played this game since Beta phase 3.

I just feel a setting in the menus or even just in the quest complete/turn in.

Please stop being so abelist.
Not everyone is neurotypical. Not everyone is you. We are all different and we are simply asking for an accessibility feature that is accommodating for those with mental health illness.

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

So I've just finished a segment of the in endwalker main senario and well I really really wish there was a content or trigger warning to warn us about just how dark and bad it is. I know you told us in live letters it was going to be bleak but this requires more warning than that.

I also wish after the end of those quests you gave us the hotline prevention number because it's absolutely important to remind people that's not okay.

Mental health is no joke and NPCs commiting suicide isn't ok, even if it's implied.

Offer us the choice to know that something like that is happening so we can prepare ourselves for it, instead of seeing it, being blindsided and then be reminded of real world losses and not want to play.

I took time off ffxiv because of that quest as it was messed up and I'm currently dealing with a pet loss and lost a cousin two years ago to suicide.

So yeah a bit more warning next time.
No I'm not okay.

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This has happened multiple times throughout the game. Every time someone sacrifices themselves, it's still suicide no matter how you look at it. (There's one exception as one particular NPC didnt necessarily know they'd die) If you want to get talking about things that are not OK though.... is it really OK for us to go around murdering people just because some 12,000 year old goddess deems it necessary? (The easiest and most obvious example is Thordan and is knights). Or even when we see two adopted siblings murder each other in Stormblood?

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

The issue here is that we don't have access to PEGI in game, nor is it listed on Square Website. You'd have to know to go there and look.

I didn't know about PEGI until this thread. And have played this game since Beta phase 3.

I just feel a setting in the menus or even just in the quest complete/turn in.

Please stop being so abelist.
Not everyone is neurotypical. Not everyone is you. We are all different and we are simply asking for an accessibility feature that is accommodating for those with mental health illness.

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There exists a world outside of the game, everything doesn't need to be in the game. PEGI/ESRB is there to make decisions when BUYING the game.

PEGI/ESRB have been around since the 90s and are how video games are rated based off content. If you are hyper sensitive to content, then you need to be aware of the tools that are available to you whenever making decisions to purchase games. You had to REALLY have tried to avoid knowing about them since their ratings and content warnings are literally ANYWHERE that you would have gone to purchase the game.

You asked for a tool, I told you there is a tool. Don't sit there any psychoanalyze me, because you have no idea who I am. I also shared with you that your method of avoidance is shown to be unhealthy for you. There's a difference between being "abelist" and fighting against things that are incredibly unhelpful for everyone (that already exist for the people who deem that they need it).

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Originally Posted by postingway

Having a pop up similar to "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence" that instead say "several cutscenes will now play in a sequence and some of them may include triggering imagery" is not that immersion breaking or spoilery, and I think people's mental health is more important than something like spoilers in a video game story.

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Couldn't we have that as an option to toggle on or off? I see why some people would like that and while I personally wouldn't use it, its presence as an option wouldn't hurt me.
Actually I'd love to turn off the several cutscenes warning to begin with, breaks immersion.

I don’t understand why my last comment was removed without explanation. I was expressing continued discomfort toward problematic rhetoric that called at least some victims of suicide as being selfish, and yet those offensive comments still remain up; my last comment also noted that I felt that the negative labeling of those victims was a bigger concern than the game not having another warning at a specific point in the game, so I’m not clear on what rules I apparently broke...

Would it just make more sense for this overall thread to be deleted at this point? Sorry for rambling, but I’m honestly very uncomfortable now with what happened and sincerely want to understand what I did wrong so that I can improve…

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

Language that involves saying or implying that any victims of suicide went out with a selfish act is problematic; as someone who currently sees a psychiatrist for anxiety and also knew people who unfortunately killed themselves, I find that behavior in this thread to much be more offensive than a fantasy game not more immediately warning you of an upcoming suicide right before it happens despite that already happening in past expansions, involving major spoilers, and being talked about in content rating descriptions before you buy new content.

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This. Honestly, this thread needs a trigger warning way more than the msq did.

When the OP feels like insulting mental illness victims under the excuse of campaigning in their defense, nothing can go right. And I wish I didn't see this thread.

Someone should repost this topic on General Discussion because I'm very curious how they would view such things.