Please remove MSQ dungeons from Mentor roulette

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12-22-2021, 08:50 PM
Mithron

Please remove MSQ dungeons from Mentor roulette

I love being a Mentor. I love helping new players clear content. I'm happy to coach 7 green leafs through a synced Extreme trial.

But green leafs don't need my help watching cutscenes, and I'm not going to spend an hour doing so for 30 tomes. Those two dungeons are the only two pieces of content I refuse to do in the game because of the cutscene requirement, and while I like the cutscene requirement for enjoying the story as a new player, I want those two to specifically be exclusive to MSQ roulette given the nature of them.

I avoid MSQ roulette, no matter how good the rewards are, because I do not want to spend that much time watching cutscenes. I am happy spending an hour coaching green leafs through Ramuh extreme or King Moggle Mog extreme or Thordan extreme but not watching cutscenes. The time requirement of MSQ dungeons is far too much for Mentor roulette.
12-23-2021, 09:49 PM
Rongway

Here's what I had to say about it the last time we had this conversation (about a month ago):
Thread: Please remove Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium from Mentor Roulette

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

You don't need mentors to help with duties that are steamroll-watchcutscene-steamroll-watchcutscene.
You don't need bodies to fill duties for which there is an entire roulette that is just those two duties and grants an obscene amount of XP.

Mentors are no more effective in DR:MainScenario than any other person who's ever completed it, are not needed to fill the party slots, and don't get any rewards worth mentioning for being trapped in a 45 minute cutscene dungeon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

I would be running DR:Mentor twenty times a day if it wasn't a Praetorium magnet. I'm not needed in Praetorium. Praetorium runs do not go any faster or smoother for new players with me sitting there watching cutscenes. My DPS and mechanical recall do make real dungeons and trials go faster and smoother. How many other mentors could be helping out in content where they can be helpful, but are avoiding DR:Mentor because Praetorium is a waste of their time and skills? "So don't run it" is about the worst stance you could take it when we could just take Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium out of the roulette, put mentors in duties where they actually matter, and increase DR:Mentor participation.
12-23-2021, 10:15 PM
Doozer

Mentor roulette isn't for you, it's for them. Whether you're teaching them or watching cutscenes, you're there so they can do the content. Period.
12-23-2021, 11:22 PM
geekgirl101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

Mentor roulette isn't for you, it's for them. Whether you're teaching them or watching cutscenes, you're there so they can do the content. Period.

In the time it takes to explain mechanics in Prae everyone is already killing Lahabrea. Mentors have no place in CM or Prae, they are far too fast-paced and there's no real mechanics to them anyways as they're utter faceroll. I originally thought people were dropping out of CM because they wanted Prae and vice versa, but if it's popping up in mentor roulette I can perfectly understand why and I guarantee I would do the same if I got those under mentor roulette too for the very same reason - the penalty is shorter than the duration of those 2 dungeons and doing them in MSQ roulette once a day is more than enough.
12-23-2021, 11:24 PM
Doozer

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekgirl101

In the time it takes to explain mechanics in Prae everyone is already killing Lahabrea. Mentors have no place in CM or Prae, they are far too fast-paced and there's no real mechanics to them anyways as they're utter faceroll.

I didn't say people had to explain mechanics in there. I said doing the mentor roulette is so the people you get matched with can complete the duty, just like any other roulette. Not sure where the confusion is.
12-23-2021, 11:50 PM
Rongway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

I didn't say people had to explain mechanics in there. I said doing the mentor roulette is so the people you get matched with can complete the duty, just like any other roulette. Not sure where the confusion is.

They DON'T NEED US. DR:MainScenario is constantly populated. Put me in duties where I'm actually needed.
12-23-2021, 11:57 PM
Doozer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

They DON'T NEED US. DR:MainScenario is constantly populated. Put me in duties where I'm actually needed.

And yet, you're getting placed in those duties. So clearly they do need you. No need to get mad.
12-24-2021, 12:18 AM
Rongway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

And yet, you're getting placed in those duties. So clearly they do need you. No need to get mad.

Your conclusion is faulty. If the MainScenario dungeons were removed from DR:Mentor, the MainScenario dungeon queues would still fill without a significant increase in queue times. We're not needed; we are mismanaged.

Meanwhile, other queues that do need us are slower than they could be because we're not running DR:Mentor because DR:Mentor mismanages us and assigns us to cutscene duty.
12-24-2021, 12:31 AM
Doozer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

Your conclusion is faulty. If the MainScenario dungeons were removed from DR:Mentor, the MainScenario dungeon queues would still fill without a significant increase in queue times. We're not needed; we are mismanaged.

Meanwhile, other queues that do need us are slower than they could be because we're not running DR:Mentor because DR:Mentor mismanages us and assigns us to cutscene duty.

Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean my "conclusion is faulty". Mentor roulette is an amalgamation of all duties types specifically for people who've done them all so you can go where you're needed. Where you end up is where you're needed. Sorry. If you're so hellbent on helping people, join learning party PFs, do every roulette except MSQ and mentor, and give advice to people who need it. Unless there's something else you want from mentor roulette specifically?
12-24-2021, 01:12 AM
Kuroka

If it would at least give roulett bonus every time and not just those lousy tome once....
12-24-2021, 01:24 AM
Garten

The thing "you are put where you are needed" Is debatable. I think you are put in the First slot free available.
If msq were banned from mentor roulette this does not mean that THAT slot would not be filled in seconds either way..
So you could Say that yes, TECNICALLY you were needed, but not so much..
12-24-2021, 01:26 AM
Doozer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garten

The thing "you are put where you are needed" Is debatable. I think you are put in the First slot free available.
If msq were banned from mentor roulette this does not mean that THAT slot would not be filled in seconds either way..
So you could Say that yes, TECNICALLY you were needed, but not so much..

It's how all roulettes work, so there's no reason for it to be any different. Roulettes put you where there are empty slots. So mentor roulette does as well. Being in an EX trial in DF is no more significant. Then again, I hear most mentors just leave those too, so I get the feeling they just want an easy ride.
12-24-2021, 09:13 AM
Mithron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

Mentor roulette isn't for you, it's for them. Whether you're teaching them or watching cutscenes, you're there so they can do the content. Period.

I'd be helping a lot more people where I'm actually needed instead of watching cutscenes. There's really no counter argument you can provide to that. It's not that hard to understand. MSQ Roulette has plenty of other people willing to watch cutscenes and populate it. Green leafs looking to do extreme primals synced don't, even if they try to PF it, or green leafs in new dungeons or any other content in the game that does actually need my help.

My population in a cutscene dungeon is not helping when there are plenty of other viable candidates available.
12-28-2021, 06:38 AM
Zeidrich

As a new player, the high level players escorting me through Castrum and Praetorium didn't make my experience better. It wasn't a fun experience, the cutscenes were nice, but the gameplay was not fun.

What would have made it fun for me would have been if I had gone through it solo, or with friends. Where I could figure out what was going on at my pace or with people who wanted to be there with me instead of ending up on the wrong side of an elevator or not picking up a necessary key or whatever else while people are a mile ahead of me because they just want to end their suffering.

They could make it something fun. Let me explore the dungeon, let me do it at a pace that works for me, let me have engaging fights.

Like, it's billed as though the reason that high level players have to sit through these cutscenes so many times is to let low level players get through required MSQ dungeons. But the only reason that they are required for this is because the game requires 8 people to do it. But it doesn't have to. Conceptually, you want 8 people to do it because it feels more fun to do in a group. But when 7 of 8 players don't actually want to be there, it's not fun. And when the systems and mechanics are trivialized because of the way scaling works and the way that it's been tuned, it's still not fun.

Throw me in there on my own, with my friends. Give me a couple of scions or random WoL NPCs to tank, heal or DPS, whatever roles are missing. Let me take my time. Let me fight against the bosses. I would want to do that, but I didn't get to. The high level players going through didn't want to do it, but they had to. Seems silly.
12-28-2021, 08:56 AM
Venjamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

It's how all roulettes work, so there's no reason for it to be any different. Roulettes put you where there are empty slots. So mentor roulette does as well. Being in an EX trial in DF is no more significant. Then again, I hear most mentors just leave those too, so I get the feeling they just want an easy ride.

This is by far the silliest response. By your logic, if those roulettes are removed, we're not needed there, right? And if no one wants to do Prae/CM anyways, why force people to do it? The MSQ roulette exists already.
12-29-2021, 02:55 AM
Ramiren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

You don't need mentors to help with duties that are steamroll-watchcutscene-steamroll-watchcutscene.
You don't need bodies to fill duties for which there is an entire roulette that is just those two duties and grants an obscene amount of XP.

Mentors are no more effective in DR:MainScenario than any other person who's ever completed it, are not needed to fill the party slots, and don't get any rewards worth mentioning for being trapped in a 45 minute cutscene dungeon.

Just wanted to add that Main Scenario Roulette doesn't give an obscene amount of XP anymore. It actually gives considerably less than just doing a single normal dungeon.

Just ran one on my Paladin, got 1.8 million XP, about 1/4 of a level. Did Tower of Zot and got about 3.2 million, exact same buffs, had the adventurer in need bonus for Main Scenario.

I agree that strictly speaking it isn't content that requires a mentor, but given that once word gets out that the XP is abysmal, Main Scenario roulette is going to turn into a dead queue, they're going to need all the queues they can get just to get newbies through the ARR finale in a reasonable amount of time.
12-29-2021, 03:07 AM
ForteNightshade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

And yet, you're getting placed in those duties. So clearly they do need you. No need to get mad.

This is because Mentor Roulette will always prioritize finding sprouts to pair mentors with. It has nothing whatsoever to do with needed queues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doozer

It's how all roulettes work, so there's no reason for it to be any different. Roulettes put you where there are empty slots. So mentor roulette does as well. Being in an EX trial in DF is no more significant. Then again, I hear most mentors just leave those too, so I get the feeling they just want an easy ride.

Ironically, you could complete an EX trial faster than Prae assuming you get sprouts who will actually listen. The issue with mentors leaving circles back to a poor reward structure. When you can get 5 minute Guildhests or 15 minute dungeons, there's zero incentive to stick around for EX trials that may just waste an hour with no rewards or sit through Prae without the accompanying mass EXP/Tomes that MSQ Roulette provides. Something to keep in mind is they had to buff MSQ Roulette twice after forcing cut scenes because nobody would touch it. So it's hardly surprising mentors don't let getting it.

All in all though, Mentor Roulette is more a queue filler than anything else. I do think they should clean it up, though there is some apparent "big change" coming for both Castrum and Prae. Who knows.