DNC needs a single target buff. T_T

Well, yea, as the Title says. xD

Edit: Potency increases.

Shall I introduce you to Closed Position+Standard Finish?

Pretty sure he means "Dancer needs to do more single target damage" and not that they need more buffs to apply.

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Originally Posted by RocciaSolida

Shall I introduce you to Closed Position+Standard Finish?

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I think she means, "DNC needs a buff to their single-target damage potencies"

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Originally Posted by RocciaSolida

Shall I introduce you to Closed Position+Standard Finish?

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Mind reader

Yes, I'm talking about some potency increases. >_>
Bad wording I guess.

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Originally Posted by Tsara

Yes, I'm talking about some potency increases. >_>
Bad wording I guess.

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Nah, bad reading.

but yeah - DNC does some real real bad dps right now.

Came here to say the same thing. Dancer feels really weak right now and our supportive abilities don't make up for how low our damage is at the moment. It feels slightly stronger than a tank.

I wouldn't say no to a single target DPS increase, but do keep in mind party damage buffs only get better as the expac gets rolling. Dancer is, by it's design, always going to be at it's weakest at expansion launch.

I do agree, but I hope it doesn't get overtuned and completely dwarf the other two, which a lot of people still believe is the case, because of a change at a very early patch by the end of the expansion.

No, y’all don’t need buffs your administer them, want a strong job go to melee

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Originally Posted by Jirah

No, y’all don’t need buffs your administer them, want a strong job go to melee

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Yes let's all play nothing but reapers who also bring said damage buffs to the raid.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

No, y’all don’t need buffs your administer them, want a strong job go to melee

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I'm guessing this is sarcasm?

Nearly all Physical Ranged have poor rDPS at the moment, with DNC the worst among them until above the 95th percentile. They're certainly deserving of a 6.05 buff. Them and SMN, and to a lighter extent DRG and NIN.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm guessing this is sarcasm?

Nearly all Physical Ranged have poor rDPS at the moment, with DNC the worst among them until above the 95th percentile. They're certainly deserving of a 6.05 buff. Them and SMN, and to a lighter extent DRG and NIN.

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Kits with simple appeal should not exceed those that require more out of the player. Having ranged by on the same league as melee with free mobility would be a massive imbalance, more so for DNC more automatic nature. As I said, play Melee if you wanna be top DPS, and being that it’s savage-less meta it’s not so horrid to the point of HW or exclusions quite yet. Let’s wait until the savage raid maybe as all balances and numbers only really matter in that realm

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Kits with simple appeal should not exceed those that require more out of the player. Having ranged by on the same league as melee with free mobility would be a massive imbalance, more so for DNC more automatic nature. As I said, play Melee if you wanna be top DPS, and being that it’s savage-less meta it’s not so horrid to the point of HW or exclusions quite yet. Let’s wait until the savage raid maybe as all balances and numbers only really matter in that realm

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Forget the Melee. Dancer isn't keeping up within its own role. Which makes the job worthless since why bring what is essentially a weaker Bard? It's the same problem Summoner has in the Caster role. It's woefully inferior to Red Mage in every aspect save mobility. Ironically, Bard is actually tied with Ninja right now and Machinist is nearly beating Dragoon. So when you say "play a melee," you should actually say, "play Reaper".

With that all said. You can't balance around job difficulty because it's both entirely subjective and inherently flawed. Take my aforementioned Red Mage example. Despite Summoner being, arguably, the easiest job in the game now, if it doesn't suppress Red Mage in damage, it's completely worthless. It literally offers nothing both the other Casters don't do better. So that ease of play won't matter when people will lock it out in favor of Red Mage and Black Mage.

Waiting until after Savage releases is a terrible idea. It means jobs in serious need of buffs (or potential nerfs in Reaper's case) won't see them until April.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Kits with simple appeal should not exceed those that require more out of the player. Having ranged by on the same league as melee with free mobility would be a massive imbalance, more so for DNC more automatic nature. As I said, play Melee if you wanna be top DPS, and being that it’s savage-less meta it’s not so horrid to the point of HW or exclusions quite yet. Let’s wait until the savage raid maybe as all balances and numbers only really matter in that realm

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I'm not saying necessarily equal, but that gap is huge. RDM, for instance, not only has significantly higher rDPS (faintly more than DRG so far), but also significantly more utility than any physical ranged, given that no one's going to die for lack of Tactician/Shield Samba alone but we'll soon be in Savage prog where instant rezzes come in plenty handy.

The RDM-BLM gap? Sure, we could reason that out, but the BRD-DNC or RDM-SMN (or even RDM-BRD) gap? No, that ought to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Kits with simple appeal should not exceed those that require more out of the player. Having ranged by on the same league as melee with free mobility would be a massive imbalance, more so for DNC more automatic nature. As I said, play Melee if you wanna be top DPS, and being that it’s savage-less meta it’s not so horrid to the point of HW or exclusions quite yet. Let’s wait until the savage raid maybe as all balances and numbers only really matter in that realm

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Melee's requiring more out of the player is almost a falacy at this point. Every Melee have been given every tool needed to keep up time at the same level as a ranged dps. All of them have some level of gap closer or instant teleports on, their ranged attacks no longer break their combos, positionals have been nearly taken out of existence, and the few that remain are handled via the true north ability and bosses that don't even have positions to hit. Casters are all now as mobile as any ranged DPS, even black mage now can literally go 30 seconds straight in a fight without a single cast time and not lose a single ounce of DPS. None of them take any more ounce of skill then the 3 ranged physicals (except maybe ninja, and thats far more due to a scuffed rotation then it is anything else).

If you wanna sit here and say that 3 ranged physicals should sit a little bit below in the damage department (like by maybe a 100 or 200 less at max) sure. I cant agree with it but I can see the logic behind it. But this isn't 2.0 to 4.5 anymore. Since Shadowbringers released, the ease of uptime on melee and casters has become far too easy to justify that they should naturally just hit so much harder.

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Originally Posted by Rika007

Melee's requiring more out of the player is almost a falacy at this point. Every Melee have been given every tool needed to keep up time at the same level as a ranged dps.

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Tbf, there's an obvious difference between even having to use tools and my just pew pewing from wherever the hell I want on my Bard, Dancer, or Machinist.

If physical ranged still had the option of going caster-lite as per HW's designs, then they'd at least have some use for such tools rather than forgoing any such complexity altogether. If we still had the likes of Stormblood Machinist, there'd at least be enough rotational complexity to warrant high rDPS despite not needing to manage positioning nearly so much as melee or casters. But it's now likely the least cognitively demanding job in the game atop having perfect relative mobility. I don't think there should be any huge gap, or even a significant one until the 95th percentile or so (as ease, in its largely foolproofing a job, also makes for fewer mistakes), but I'll agree with Jirah the current ranged dps shouldn't be, in effect, getting the same throughput for less effort spent and fewer raid constraints created.

I don't mind being lower personal DPS since one person in the group gets a buff and I have very high mobility. I haven't (and won't) parse it. If that's factored in, I'm okay with it.

I'll play it if it's fun, I'll play another job if it's not.

Dancer will more likely get a buff very soon, with a BRD doing as good if not BETTER buff than DNC then might as well take a BRD over a DNC lol

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm guessing this is sarcasm?

Nearly all Physical Ranged have poor rDPS at the moment, with DNC the worst among them until above the 95th percentile. They're certainly deserving of a 6.05 buff. Them and SMN, and to a lighter extent DRG and NIN.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3rKsUzXMAQCWw2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Olinara

I don't mind being lower personal DPS since one person in the group gets a buff and I have very high mobility. I haven't (and won't) parse it. If that's factored in, I'm okay with it.

I'll play it if it's fun, I'll play another job if it's not.

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So do I. I'm staying Dancer since I'm really enjoying the job.
But there's a difference between lower dps and contesting with tanks for fifth and sixth place.

If the developers are going to go hard on simplifying melee jobs to help people who think moving to the left and right of a clearly marked hitbox at the feet of a boss is too hard/punishing while also doing their level best to minimize the assistance that support jobs provide to the rest of a group, then there's absolutely no reason for physical ranged DPS to pay an arbitrary "mobility" tax on their personal damage output. At this point, there is little that is mechanically demanding on just about every DPS job in the game, so why should one half of the ranged dps equation be left to languish at the bottom of the charts?

I understand that SE is terrified of a buff stacking meta from the Heavensward days, but one has to wonder why they even bother pretending to offer "support" jobs when they try so damned hard to minimize their influence in the first place.

Dancer and Machinist aren't my main jobs, but they are jobs I liked to play when I wanted to relax a bit compared to other jobs I prefer. I don't like it, however, when I can feel like I'm on point with these jobs, getting good dancer rng/getting in all my weaves and such on MCH, only to fall short of a freestyle Samurai/BLM dropping their astral/umbral timers on the regular just because of how hard they still hit despite mistakes. Make it make sense, SE.

Dancer does do the least amount of dps now they should get a buff. Dancer should do more dps or the same as a rdm since rdm has a buff, raise, and heals.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Dancer does do the least amount of dps now they should get a buff. Dancer should do more dps or the same as a rdm since rdm has a buff, raise, and heals.

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So long as you mean rDPS and not aDPS, then sure, that seems reasonable.

Personally, I do think the effort required to get, say, 95% of the theoretical maximum out of a job in a given fight should have an impact on how that high is compared to other jobs (and their effort required), but I think you could make the case that physical ranged exempting perhaps Bard should have slightly higher rDPS than an RDM, especially now that RDM's difficulty has been slightly decreased and mobility increased.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Dancer does do the least amount of dps now they should get a buff. Dancer should do more dps or the same as a rdm since rdm has a buff, raise, and heals.

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Dancer has more mobility. Red Mages have only instant casts about half of the time. They can't move around as freely as a dancer. Dancer's gap closer is also a lot more flexible since it doesn't need a target. A red mage can't use theirs to escape an aoe unless they have an enemy to lock on to where they need to go.

There's a pretty big difference between dancer and red mage against any boss that requires lots of movement.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Dancer does do the least amount of dps now they should get a buff. Dancer should do more dps or the same as a rdm since rdm has a buff, raise, and heals.

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they do that and it will BRD turn to cry and complain

but i do agree to up dnc potency a bit more, at least until on par with bard (at least i feel like dnc dps is still below bard)

my suggestion is to give potency damage on dance button, i feel like during our "dance" we do nothing except dance and i feel it kinda wasted.

my take is when we do the "step", we do... 100? potency damage either aoe or single for every correct button we press, so standard we deal extra 200 potency and 400 potency when we do technical

920 potency total on standard looks allright for me, and while 1480 potency on technical might look so damn high, its 120 seconds cooldown so its basically our "super" attack