[6.0 spoiler] Limit breaks

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Do not proceed beyond this point if you have not finished the Endwalker main story





































Now, with that out of the way.

I've seen a certain fan theory posited a fair bit. It's pretty simple: Limit Breaks are the result of the "Dynamis" force introduced to us in this expansion.

But here's the problem:
1. Emet-Selch goes out of his way to shoot down the idea that being desperate leading to a burst of strength/determination/whatever you want to call it is a result of Dynamis
2. Overall, Dynamis is several times noted to be very difficult for aether-rich beings to control or make any kind of practical use of, and it's noted to be very weak in the presence of aether.
(2.a. OK yeah in Elpis we're a bit "thin" as they describe us, but it's never suggested we're this way when time travel isn't severely weakening us)

Is there any hard evidence that dynamis actually has anything to do with limit breaks?
Or is this another "All moonkeeper miqo'te males are submissive sex slaves" lore "interpretation"?

Using a tank lb3 is mandatory during the final trial and after you use it, the Endsinger says something along the lines of "Dynamis?"

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Originally Posted by waifugenerator

Using a tank lb3 is mandatory during the final trial and after you use it, the Endsinger says something along the lines of "Dynamis?"

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Someone in one of the other lore threads posted an official actions & traits lore guide and most of the LBs are described as aether. Plus, the unsundered trusts in the lvl87 dungeon can use limit breaks albeit this is a technicality right here more than likely.

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Originally Posted by waifugenerator

Using a tank lb3 is mandatory during the final trial and after you use it, the Endsinger says something along the lines of "Dynamis?"

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I missed that. Very interesting...

But also that whole area is something of an exception to the usual rules, so I'm still left to wonder if they're semi-retconning all limit breaks, or if that's meant to apply to that specific circumstance only, where your allies also made exceptional use of dynamis...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

(2.a. OK yeah in Elpis we're a bit "thin" as they describe us, but it's never suggested we're this way when time travel isn't severely weakening us)

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but it is. repeatedly even.
1) the reason the ascians were nigh unkillable and uncapturable until we devised many extreme and convoluted methods to counter that? because their aetheric density is much much higher than ours
2) the reason emet-selch saw us as pitiful half beings unworthy of life? because we are mere fractions of what we could be
3) the reason the song of oblivion is able to transform modern people directly while in ancient times it could only corrupt creation magic? because we are much less aetherically dense than the ancients.

dynamis is weakened by aether yes but its not as if a single drop of aether overpowers any amount of dynamis, or the entire world ending event were trying to stop wouldnt have worked to begin with.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

but it is. repeatedly even.
1) the reason the ascians were nigh unkillable and uncapturable until we devised many extreme and convoluted methods to counter that? because their aetheric density is much much higher than ours
2) the reason emet-selch saw us as pitiful half beings unworthy of life? because we are mere fractions of what we could be
3) the reason the song of oblivion is able to transform modern people directly while in ancient times it could only corrupt creation magic? because we are much less aetherically dense than the ancients.

dynamis is weakened by aether yes but its not as if a single drop of aether overpowers any amount of dynamis, or the entire world ending event were trying to stop wouldnt have worked to begin with.

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Relative to ascians? Yes.

But when dynamis is first introduced as akasha, it's still framed in the same way: There's not much in the way to directly interact with it nor make use of it. Ascians might be a 40,000 lumen flare to our 1300 lumen floodlight, but we're still beings constituted of aether on a very aether heavy world.

While we may be beings that're made of aether, on an aether-heavy world, the Sundering effectively made us "capable" of tapping into that vast reservoir of energy by design. We're still nowhere near the levels of aetheric density that the ancients have, but we're still above that of Entelechies. We're a middle ground where our magickal prowess is largely just enhanced to greater heights by tapping into that spiritual energy. It basically fits into one of FFXIV's prevailing themes: balance is important.

We beat it without tank LB. Someone said we needed it but we actually survived without it.

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Originally Posted by Bjorn-Kobito

Someone in one of the other lore threads posted an official actions & traits lore guide and most of the LBs are described as aether. Plus, the unsundered trusts in the lvl87 dungeon can use limit breaks albeit this is a technicality right here more than likely.

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The Encyclopedia Eorzea is an in-universe text, and so might potentially be wrong. The Ktisis Trust partners still stand as evidence, though, so we can believe that.

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Originally Posted by Bjorn-Kobito

Someone in one of the other lore threads posted an official actions & traits lore guide and most of the LBs are described as aether. Plus, the unsundered trusts in the lvl87 dungeon can use limit breaks albeit this is a technicality right here more than likely.

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Except the EE is essentially an ingame telling of things, and nobody knew of Dynamis before now. Dynamis being used isn't even a contradiction (stating this in general), since LBs can only be used in high stress environments, where emotions run high, and dynamis is essentially the power of emotions.

at 1st i tought they were retconning LBs as Dynamys but right after we survive again with the aether barrier the scions cast on us.
i also do not remind any official explanation on how LBs works, as mentioned on some posts above someone said it was aether but i dont know if its a canon explanation or expeculation. Since all ppl in the Source are sundered or fragmented i dont see much problem on squadrons or any other ppl using Dynamis even not knowing about it.

That said i believe that on the Zenos encounter you have a buff telling you're empowered by your comrades and the memories of your advantures isnt it?So this means that not just you but the Scions are channeling Dynamis on you? might need to check.

hmm, I wonder if its a mix of aether AND dynamis. Unconciously using dynamis to achieve aether based feats. Casting meteor for example is a blm limit break, buthere we have exdeath tossing out meteors repeatedly

If they want us to believe that LBs are Dynamis then they really should get thier gameplay mechanic straight too. Dont have the Ancients use it in the dungeon. Also Elidibus too used it and eventhough he used Ardberts body, his soul was still unsundered.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If they want us to believe that LBs are Dynamis then they really should get thier gameplay mechanic straight too. Dont have the Ancients use it in the dungeon. Also Elidibus too used it and eventhough he used Ardberts body, his soul was still unsundered.

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To be fair, Venat basically uses a Limit Break during her sparring match with you (which is before she and the restof the ancients get nerfed into the floor for Ktisis). So I choose to interpret that the Ancients in Ktisis are just doing that. a "Mock Limit Break" performed via Aether instead of Dynamis.

It's a bit handwavey / fanwank, I admit, but it's the best I got.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If they want us to believe that LBs are Dynamis then they really should get thier gameplay mechanic straight too. Dont have the Ancients use it in the dungeon. Also Elidibus too used it and eventhough he used Ardberts body, his soul was still unsundered.

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Ancients can use Dynamis, but to a much lesser degree than the Sundered people. There's also the possibility that the dampener on their aether in the dungeon allowed them to tap into dynamis a bit more.

My read is that some LBs are dynamis, some are aether, and some are the limit breaker going above and beyond in doing whatever they're doing, like the MCH LB3, which is apparently just a really powerful and short-lived local satellite.

It honestly could just be different roads to the same result. Ancients, who're so replete with aether, can use limit breaks by expending a portion of their vast reserves; the Sundered utilize Dynamis to help elevate themselves to something similar in more dire circumstances. One group is just that powerful and it's not a "limit break" for them, while the other is breaking down their weaknesses and reaching it via other methods.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ancients can use Dynamis, but to a much lesser degree than the Sundered people. There's also the possibility that the dampener on their aether in the dungeon allowed them to tap into dynamis a bit more.

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But how does that explain Elidibus being able to use LB4 on us? He is an unsundered Ancient after all.

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Originally Posted by Gerel

It honestly could just be different roads to the same result. Ancients, who're so replete with aether, can use limit breaks by expending a portion of their vast reserves; the Sundered utilize Dynamis to help elevate themselves to something similar in more dire circumstances. One group is just that powerful and it's not a "limit break" for them, while the other is breaking down their weaknesses and reaching it via other methods.

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I guess that can make sense too but then it would have probably been better to not just have Meteion say Dynamis after we use it. Because that made it seem like its just Dynamis behind it and because the lore books are written with an ingame view in mind we cant even use that as a source...so its really hard to argue now.

I'd say limit breaks are mostly aether, with maybe a smidge of dynamis to help you push past your limits. Like it's 10/10 aether and dynamis is a little +1 that lets you briefly turn things up to 11.

The final fight is probably an exception and features much more dynamis than usual because of the nature of where you are and what you're doing.

The Ancients limit breaking in the dungeon is fine because they're packing a bit more aether than us anyway and can go to 11 as standard.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

But how does that explain Elidibus being able to use LB4 on us? He is an unsundered Ancient after all.



I guess that can make sense too but then it would have probably been better to not just have Meteion say Dynamis after we use it. Because that made it seem like its just Dynamis behind it and because the lore books are written with an ingame view in mind we cant even use that as a source...so its really hard to argue now.

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Well, the entire point of us being Sundered was for Hydaelyn to have us experience the trials and tribulations of being "imperfect." To deal with loss and sorrow, to know joy and achievement. To know the entire spectrum of emotion, of life and death,so that we'd be better equipped to face Meteion on her own playing field--with Dynamis. It has always been there. We're just now adding new pieces to the puzzle; that doesn't invalidate what we have in the EE books. It just means we have to treat them as they are: guides, not rule of law.

My personal thought is that they're making saying limit breaks are dynamis now, a retcon from previous lore that can be explained away as EE simply being wrong because of how little people know about Dynamis in general. The elpis trust people being able to use it is probably just for gameplay reasons or an oversight. It wouldn't make any sense IMO for the last boss, of all people, to mistakenly identify the tank lb3 as dynamus. And it's more recent than the EE books. They specifically put that line there and not say, after the scions prayers protect you from the second attempt.

It’s a big question mark until official sources/story tell us more.

As in, just because in that moment the LB3 was recognized by the Endsinger as Dynamis, it does not mean all limit breaks or big boss moves are necessarily Dynamis. It doesn’t mean that any LB3s done by player characters or NPC allies are utilizing Dynamis.

I just suspect LBs to be a representation of pushing the limits of normal abilities, tapping into “something” to accomplish this. That something I would wager could be either aether or dynamis at any given time.

Of note to me: the actual power of dps lbs feels considerably weaker the farther the game progresses. Early levels it could deal as much as 15% total hp of the boss, but with Zodiark LB3 barely does 5%. I know it’s just for mechanical reasons, boss hp increases and ilvl, but it would be interesting to have that explained in game.

Something that's probably worth noting in terms of how we read interpretations of the lore regarding aether and dynamis: in Radz-at-Han, after the MSQ, there is an NPC that says that the transformations of the End of Days were the result of 'aetherial corruption' (It's Bhateeya in the High Crucibles, if you want to check). I feel like that means that just because an in-universe source says it's aetheric, doesn't mean it wasn't dynamis-related as well.

In fact, given that statement was said specifically by a Hannish alchemist--so both someone in close proximity to the End of Days, and who might've had reason to know about the theory of akasa--it might be reasonable to suggest that a dynamis reaction around an aetheric being is, by nature, also aetheric.

Aether and Dynamis are both forms of energy. You could execute a technique using either as your resource. The more powerful Sundered seem to be able to call upon Dynamis, perhaps without realizing it to fuel their techniques.

It's still not 100% understood, but when the transformations take place that happen due to despair meeting the waves of song that Meteion trilled out to Etheirys, it seems as though the very quintessence of a lifeform's being is rearranged and consumed by Dynamis. The more intense the emotion, the more intense the creature made with all of the life in a person, because more Dynamis exerts more energy/force on them.

It's more of less the magical equivalent of Dark Matter. That is, matter in our world that does not interact with the electromagnetic spectrum. There is also Dark Energy in our real world, theoretical in nature, providing an answer and measurement for why the universe is expanding with the expansion itself accelerating. Of course, these don't have transformative properties, but that's where the idea comes from. Fantasy for your theoretical physics!

Dynamis is a pure retcon explained away by Nidhana as "foreign scholars often conflate the two". That's their explanation for why the lore books are wrong about limit breaks, about why Mikoto (Archon in the study of aetherology) is wrong when she says feelings are aetherial phenomena, and why any jobs which harness emotions for power are wrong in describing that power as aetheric in nature. I find it difficult to believe that the setting's scholars, who are known to be able to perceive, sense and measure aether, could confuse an entirely separate energy source which cannot be seen, felt, or directly influenced, with aether. But that's the world we're in now.

It's highly possible limit breaks are the result of one energy catalyzing the other. Dragonsong Dive, for an extremely loose example, probably using the aether of a dragons eye but channeling it through use of dynamis.

I'd also like to posit that dynamis is that "x factor" that plagued Omega so much during the Omega raids, and in his attempt to replicate what it was identifying as that "x factor" it replicated limit breaks with aether.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

Dynamis is a pure retcon explained away by Nidhana as "foreign scholars often conflate the two". That's their explanation for why the lore books are wrong about limit breaks, about why Mikoto (Archon in the study of aetherology) is wrong when she says feelings are aetherial phenomena, and why any jobs which harness emotions for power are wrong in describing that power as aetheric in nature. I find it difficult to believe that the setting's scholars, who are known to be able to perceive, sense and measure aether, could confuse an entirely separate energy source which cannot be seen, felt, or directly influenced, with aether. But that's the world we're in now.

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Considering that dynamis effectively just replicates the power of aether, and can't be measured, it is rather easy to see why a group of experts would conflate the two and go with the simplest answer: everything is aether. Now that we know better? We can better attempt to define the barrier between what is purely aether, what is purely dynamis, and what is a combination of the two. We also have to take into account that we're not like Meteion; we're aether-heavy in comparison. We're just "light enough" on the building block energy that we're capable of interacting and utilizing dynamis to further enhance what's there--we're the happy balance between two extremes. I imagine that would cause further issues in trying to determine the use of dynamis without properly knowing what it is.

It also opens us to interesting possibilities on the origins of magick on the Source. Before, it was thought to be a result of fervent prayer in response to a Calamity. Now it could be that Dynamis played a hand in our discovery of it. Ushered in the very desire to research a way to replicate those spells and voila: aether was discovered.

Limit Breaks are dynamis in the same way we now summon other people into raids. Dynamis gives them a convenient excuse to actually put Limit Breaks into the actual lore of the MMO and not just something cool that is used in Final Fantasy games. They used the FF9 LB excuse for how Limit Breaks work.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Limit Breaks are dynamis in the same way we now summon other people into raids. Dynamis gives them a convenient excuse to actually put Limit Breaks into the actual lore of the MMO and not just something cool that is used in Final Fantasy games. They used the FF9 LB excuse for how Limit Breaks work.

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Yet it makes sense here considering you can only use LB3 during big boss fights, the places where emotions would run the highest, as would stress. Plus it's kind of a meta thing, hilariously enough. Think of it from a "Day One" perspective of an Alliance Raid or Trial? You're about to wipe, and you WANT that healer LB3 to go off, you WANT to bring everybody up for the finish. Any time you go for a push for that victory, that clutch LB3 that saves the party, kills the boss before enrage, etc, that's practically the idea of Dynamis since our ingame character would be feeling that kind of stress if you go for the assumption that what you're feeling is what your character is feeling.