I'm glad we finally got a summoner class.

As a Ruiner/Biocaster since ARR started I am finally glad to see something that looks like a summoner. While not perfect, and I don't expect it to ever be given the limitations of the engine or current MMO design philosophy, this was a huge leap in the correct direction.
The 'become the summon' approach the Demis started was an interesting take and am glad to see that expanded upon for the lesser summon spells. I wish to see this version expanded on. I typically love the traditional style summoning of long cast times with big payoffs, but quicker style isn't so bad and still has some decent payoffs.

Some things I think need improvement:
Physick is still worthless and on my bar. Please make it a proper heal on a long cooldown. Simple give a trait to upgrade it to "Summon Unicorn" or similar. Even a singular Vercure strength heal would do.

Ifrit "Crimson Cyclone", the combo to Crimson Strike, should be OGC after the charge. The current method feels awkward to stand in melee range waiting for the global to come up and we typically don't have fester available at this time to weave between.

Aether charges and energy siphon feel like relics now since only fester uses them and they could easily be on a charge based cooldown thus removing two more fluff buttons. Perhaps make them also heal health and mana like they used to.

Ruin2 only gets a charge on drain. I think this should also proc off Ruin just for those few seconds between Demis

Long term changes I would like to see is further refinement of the buttons. Ruin, Ruin2, Fester, could all be the default carbunkle mode buttons, and then they upgrade accordingly for each summon. Further reducing summoner buttons down to just 3 which should hopefully provide room for more summoning support.
You could re-add Bio/miasma/Bio2 but as a "Summon Doom train" on a longer cooldown similar to Gunbreaker dots, or machinist bioblaster, or for a MSQ friendly version, summon Ramuh to add a lightening debuff from Black Mage.

It's not really a summoner, though:
-You're not controlling a minion.
-You're not doing a long buildup to a giant summon/attack, like console FFs.

It's just another nuker with alternate animations.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

It's not really a summoner, though:
-You're not controlling a minion.
-You're not doing a long buildup to a giant summon/attack, like console FFs.

It's just another nuker with alternate animations.

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Summoners are historically nukers with flashy summon magic. Black mages are historically nukers with elemental magic. And so on. The summoner we have now is leagues better than the affliction warlock it used to be but as with all jobs there are some things that could improve.

What I will absolutely put my foot down on is anything and everything to do with the notion of re-adding poison magic to the job. That concept can stay gone, and out of all possible summons Doomtrain is at the bottom of the list of ones I want to see added. Save the dark poison magic aesthetic for Necromancer, if and when it is added. A long-cooldown debuff like the Ramuh idea I'm fine with as long as it's a one and done thing I don't have to babysit.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

It's not really a summoner, though:
-You're not controlling a minion.
-You're not doing a long buildup to a giant summon/attack

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Yuna has been the only summoner to ever control them outside of XI. Maybe 13s if riding a Shiva motorcycle counts.
Long buildup is minor, half the time it was just waiting on a standard ATB guage anyway.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

What I will absolutely put my foot down on is anything and everything to do with the notion of re-adding poison magic to the job. That concept can stay gone, and out of all possible summons Doomtrain is at the bottom of the list of ones I want to see added. Save the dark poison magic aesthetic for Necromancer, if and when it is added. A long-cooldown debuff like the Ramuh idea I'm fine with as long as it's a one and done thing I don't have to babysit.

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Thats fine. Poison isn't a common summon trait by any means. I was just giving examples for bringing back a dot of some sort and having it fit summoner. Having it also inflict every other ailments just seemed kinda OP compared to just the original three dots.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The summoner we have now is leagues better than the affliction warlock it used to be but as with all jobs there are some things that could improve.

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From a complexity and engagement level, it's basically a cardboard cutout of a class. This is flashy nothingness.

I tried the new summoner and it felt like playing a dps healer. One button for single target and one for aoe. The only difference was the visuals but it was extremely boring compared to the old summoner. Also way too many instant casts. I'd rather each summon require effort to call out and make a big impact like in other FF titles.

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Originally Posted by Vivix

I tried the new summoner and it felt like playing a dps healer. One button for single target and one for aoe. The only difference was the visuals but it was extremely boring compared to the old summoner. Also way too many instant casts. I'd rather each summon require effort to call out and make a big impact like in other FF titles.

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So would I, but after years of crying about that and realizing I would ultimately still be disappointed because of the XIV combat style and lack of any combat customization, the fusion method seems like a decent enough middle ground and is really worth a deeper look into. I don't think its perfect by any means. I just think its in a better spot than it was previously.
The framework has been laid, and I hope SE actually makes use of it. Channeling Ifrit has the slightest tempting taste of being a melee spell mode that touches on Tera becoming an Esper. I think they should just roll with it to make the XIV summoner somewhat unique among summoners.

Ultimately the only way to make everyone happy is to add in another summoner (or two or three) that cover the other styles which I don't see happening.
I have given up hope on traveling the world to learn to summon new primals and really don't expect to see them use anything that isn't the same 3 (+2 elder primals) that we've had for years now.

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Originally Posted by Atamis

The framework has been laid, and I hope SE actually makes use of it. Channeling Ifrit has the slightest tempting taste of being a melee spell mode that touches on Tera becoming an Esper. I think they should just roll with it to make the XIV summoner somewhat unique among summoners.

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The problem therein is that SE has shown themselves to be not the best at iterating on new class design. The best example for this in MCH. In ShB people were saying the same things, that it was just a framework and they would make it more exciting and engaging in the next expansion? And what did they get? A new AoE Drill and a charge on Reassemble.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

The problem therein is that SE has shown themselves to be not the best at iterating on new class design. The best example for this in MCH. In ShB people were saying the same things, that it was just a framework and they would make it more exciting and engaging in the next expansion? And what did they get? A new AoE Drill and a charge on Reassemble.

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I am aware. Sadly MCH has been my second most played dps. All I can do is show support when they do something I think is beneficial and hope it somehow translates itself into JP and finds its way to a dev.
They have everything they need for a good unique XIV summoner even if its not a traditional style. With any luck the complaints will form something constructive instead continue the tug of war between summoner and dot caster. Every class seems to have complaints, if its not summoner its Rangers trying to take back archer from the bards.

I don't see DoTs coming back to SMN at all and if I'm reading the signs right, they might end up taking some away from other jobs to create a new DoT focused job in the future. They did something similar with DNC when they gave it a lot of tools that MCH and BRD lost. I could just be imagining things but I am very much getting the feeling that 7.0 will introduce a new DoT focused job with Bio Miasma Shadowflare and a few other things.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I don't see DoTs coming back to SMN at all and if I'm reading the signs right, they might end up taking some away from other jobs to create a new DoT focused job in the future. They did something similar with DNC when they gave it a lot of tools that MCH and BRD lost. I could just be imagining things but I am very much getting the feeling that 7.0 will introduce a new DoT focused job with Bio Miasma Shadowflare and a few other things.

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Oracle like in Final Fantasy Tactics. All debuffs and DoTs. I’d play it.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I don't see DoTs coming back to SMN at all and if I'm reading the signs right, they might end up taking some away from other jobs to create a new DoT focused job in the future. They did something similar with DNC when they gave it a lot of tools that MCH and BRD lost. I could just be imagining things but I am very much getting the feeling that 7.0 will introduce a new DoT focused job with Bio Miasma Shadowflare and a few other things.

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Necromancer could easily be a DoT class with some bursty skills. Even if I think Reaper is the closest we are going to get to a FF5 Necro.

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Originally Posted by Atamis

Aether charges and energy siphon feel like relics now since only fester uses them and they could easily be on a charge based cooldown thus removing two more fluff buttons. Perhaps make them also heal health and mana like they used to.

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On this note specifically, I almost feel like if they wanted to keep the aetherflow charges what they could do is axe the drain spells completely and make each elemental primal we summon generate aetherflow stacks and further ruin charges. Would make aetherflow generation fit into the kit better at the very least.


On the note of dots, while I never liked them on summoner, I don't doubt they could have showhorned them in somehow if they really want to. My pet theory is that given FF14 is lacking in ANY classes that use a hammer/mace (which is kind of weird) that they took the dots so they can give them to a green mage class later.

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Originally Posted by Tylorien

On this note specifically, I almost feel like if they wanted to keep the aetherflow charges what they could do is axe the drain spells completely and make each elemental primal we summon generate aetherflow stacks and further ruin charges. Would make aetherflow generation fit into the kit better at the very least.


On the note of dots, while I never liked them on summoner, I don't doubt they could have showhorned them in somehow if they really want to. My pet theory is that given FF14 is lacking in ANY classes that use a hammer/mace (which is kind of weird) that they took the dots so they can give them to a green mage class later.

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I really like the idea of summons generating Aetherflow stacks, maybe they could even just have the demi phases generate them in case they want to limit the availability of them, having every summon generate them would mean there would never be a time we are without them given how fast we cycle through them.