I love SMN

I tried SMN in a lvl 80 Alliance Raid for the first time since expansion launch and I had a litteral blast. It was so intuitive and thanks to the fact most spells are instant it give a lot of oGCD weaving with AetherFlow and Fester... Well... once a minute I guess.

Ruin 4 is kinda weird as I mostly ended up using at the end of my Ifrit, Titan, Garuda phase.

Rekindle is also a weird move considering I'm a controller player and you need to target a party member for.

But other than that I absolutely loved it and was very close to switch mains for it lol.

Yeah SMN is perfect right now. I will level it after I get my WAR to max then will level SMN, then MNK. Those three classes will be my go to this xpac, with SGE as healer, since i think it's dope.

Yeah it gets better as it levels. So so so fun. My new main and we are having a blast.

I was bitter at first but I warmed up to it, the job fantasy is finally amazing, summoning primals is great in conjunction with demi-primals. My main gripe at the moment is that you're basically spamming 1 during Bahamut/Phoenix phase.

Its rare seeing forum posts about people liking anything on these forums lol.

I really like SMN as well. I just think they should move the level 86 Elemental Mastery trait to a much lower level like 50.

I do too love the new SMN.

But hey, I think it's the job's fate to have the playerbase divided on it, no matter how it is designed.

My only gripe right now with the job is the base carbuncle that does nothing. I wish it was a cosmetic spell so it would be optional, I feel their animation of popping in and out after every other egi/demi is a bit distracting, let alone the fact that the party buff and your personal shield are attached to its presence... I miss a LOT of opportunities to use that shield because something happens I'm either in demi phase or right on that moment where the egi comes to perform their move.

Bold take to have these days (apparently)!

I think new summoner is fine, fun even and I say this as someone who pmuch only played summoner prior to endwalker's rework.

However I will die on the hill that they need to do something with carbuncle. Having it just stand there being cosmetic is stupid as hell. I dont care if it auto attacks or heals like scholar or what but it needs SOMETHING.

While it does feel strange to have Carbuncle just kind of there doing nothing, the moment you give him an auto attack or anything it means that the abilities we use for him may not be as responsive as they are now. I would say add another oGCD ability to Carbuncle, maybe an attack ability or something, but I feel like Carbuncle is almost never available anyway since he is removed every time you summon which if you are really rolling on your abilities can be very often.

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Originally Posted by Yubie

I think new summoner is fine, fun even and I say this as someone who pmuch only played summoner prior to endwalker's rework.

However I will die on the hill that they need to do something with carbuncle. Having it just stand there being cosmetic is stupid as hell. I dont care if it auto attacks or heals like scholar or what but it needs SOMETHING.

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I was really sad to hear carbuncle doesn't even auto attack anymore, fairy still does auto healing so not sure why they removed it

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

While it does feel strange to have Carbuncle just kind of there doing nothing, the moment you give him an auto attack or anything it means that the abilities we use for him may not be as responsive as they are now. I would say add another oGCD ability to Carbuncle, maybe an attack ability or something, but I feel like Carbuncle is almost never available anyway since he is removed every time you summon which if you are really rolling on your abilities can be very often.

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The abilities in its current state are unresponsive though, you cant even use aegis or searing light between demis for half the time. And the only reason they despawn carbuncle now is because its coded lazily from relics of old summoner.

In an ideal situation the normal Carbuncle should be its own thing only to be replaced by fire bird/bahamut, and summoning the topaz/ruby/emerald summons should be their own thing that doesnt despawn carbuncle. Aegis/Searing light should be untethered to require the carbuncle to be active.

The new summoner is fun dont get me wrong because its all shiny and new, but the reality is it STILL has a lot of the pre-existing clunkyness and unresponsive actions that old summoner had.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

I was really sad to hear carbuncle doesn't even auto attack anymore, fairy still does auto healing so not sure why they removed it

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Because the way they coded it is lazy. The Ruby/Emerald/Topaz summons still hehave like old enkindles. So essentially, when you say press summon ifrit, you spawn a new egi summon that overides the existing one (like old summoner) it will cast "enkindle" (new wording same functionality), then it will automatically despawn and recast carbuncle. its like a cast sequence macro.

Thats why they cant currently have carbuncle do anything reliably. They dont have the tech rn for both carbuncle and egis/primals to be active at the same time.

I have nothing but love for new summoner personally though it would be nice to get some abilities earlier, with ones having to do with new primals long overdue. Vestiges of poison mage like "Fester" need renaming and there is no reason why the same icons are being reused so much. Is the icon design team too busy making new icons for more useless blue mage spells to spare the time to come up with stuff for an actual full job???

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Originally Posted by Raikai

But hey, I think it's the job's fate to have the playerbase divided on it, no matter how it is designed.

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Welcome to the internet.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Bold take to have these days (apparently)!

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Only the very vocal minority hate new SMN.

For the most part the SMN changes have seen overwhelming praise.

(source: trust me dude)

I like the new summoner, my only hope is that we finally get the other 3 elemental summons (Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh) in an update after using phoenix trance. Hopefully as a future version update since the models already exist in game they just need to be adjusted in size. And maybe egi versions of leviathan and shiva have to be created from lv80-90 I am unsure if those models exist but at least Egi-Ramuh is in game.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Only the very vocal minority hate new SMN.

For the most part the SMN changes have seen overwhelming praise.

(source: trust me dude)

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I don't know about that, summoners are the job I see complaining the most out of any of them. That's even counting healers!

I have also come to be at peace with the changes and learn to love my summoner again. Obviously the job can still use some tweaks, mainly on the side of aetherflow/fester/ruin IV.

But, seriously, the lvl 86 trait should come way, way earlier. I bet that would have avoided a lot of salt because it makes that much of a difference.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I like the new summoner, my only hope is that we finally get the other 3 elemental summons (Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh) in an update after using phoenix trance. Hopefully as a future version update since the models already exist in game they just need to be adjusted in size. And maybe egi versions of leviathan and shiva have to be created from lv80-90 I am unsure if those models exist but at least Egi-Ramuh is in game.

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I'm a bit torn on this because I really want leviathan, but part of me also would really like them to changed the arcanums from specific color arcanums requiring specific primals to be summoned, to prismatic arcanums that allow you to summon your elemental primals based on your need. For example if you need a bit of movement and alot of up front damage you could do ifrit, garuda, ifrit, or if you had your elemental phase up when you just needed alot of movement garuda x3

Granted they'd have to be really careful with elemental balancing if they did this or everyone would probably just only summon titan.

My one real gripe is that I feel like either Garuda or Titan's gem abiltiies don't have a role, because titan's are basically straight upgrades over your base spells that are also instant cast, while garudas are instant cast but functionally weaker than the base spells, which leads to me just sitting in titan attunement for as long as I can to use his spells for movement, and then right before my demi primal is back up, I'll pop garuda and then immediately cancel out of her without even spending her attunements.

Edit: Sidenote. I'm really surprised that I havent seen any glamoured carbuncles other than my own since this expansion went live. Everyone just seems to be running around with the standard blue carbuncle instead of yellow, red, or any of the egis O.o

So. I'm level 83 or 84 now and I have noticed some things. I read somewhere one the forums about Titan Egi and Ifrit Egi having to run up to their targets to use their attacks when you summon them. I didn't think it would be a big deal and it's not to much of one but if the enemy dies before it gets there it does tend to lolygag around and not attack. Could be solved in 1 of 2 ways. Ether have the summon appear at the enemy or make them ranged attacks.

I also think Rekindle. The Phoenix attack, should be a fire attack of some sort instead of a heal. Maybe one that places a shield on the party that deals damage if they are struck?

As for Carbuncle I don't mind that he doesn't attack. However maybe they could make Carbuncle attack when you attack with a GCD? Or have him do an attack when he comes back after you summon?

For the future of SMN I could see them going the route of giving you Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva after your Phoenix phase at like level 96, and then at level 100 you get Demi-Alexander. But what gems to you get after Alexander? 3 random gems? Ifrit, Garuda and Titan? The Phoenix ones? Guess that's a few years off anyway lol.

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Originally Posted by Tylorien

I'm a bit torn on this because I really want leviathan, but part of me also would really like them to changed the arcanums from specific color arcanums requiring specific primals to be summoned, to prismatic arcanums that allow you to summon your elemental primals based on your need. For example if you need a bit of movement and alot of up front damage you could do ifrit, garuda, ifrit, or if you had your elemental phase up when you just needed alot of movement garuda x3

Granted they'd have to be really careful with elemental balancing if they did this or everyone would probably just only summon titan.

My one real gripe is that I feel like either Garuda or Titan's gem abiltiies don't have a role, because titan's are basically straight upgrades over your base spells that are also instant cast, while garudas are instant cast but functionally weaker than the base spells, which leads to me just sitting in titan attunement for as long as I can to use his spells for movement, and then right before my demi primal is back up, I'll pop garuda and then immediately cancel out of her without even spending her attunements.

Edit: Sidenote. I'm really surprised that I havent seen any glamoured carbuncles other than my own since this expansion went live. Everyone just seems to be running around with the standard blue carbuncle instead of yellow, red, or any of the egis O.o

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I would love more than anything to get the onyx Carbuncle that Alph had back in ShB as a glamour. Right now all my summons are Carbuncle glamours and while I love summoner, I almost feel more like an Eevee pokemon trainer at the moment.

Yeah, I know what you mean. This iteration of Summoner is what I wanted since I first started playing this game (Stormblood), though I enjoyed what it was up to now. FF Tactics is one of my favorite FF games, so you can imagine what I was expecting from the Summoner before now. The elemental attunement thing for your attacks certainly doesn't feel out of place; they add a different take on the Summoner that still retains its identity from previous games. My only gripe is I just hit 86 and now I'm going to hate syncing down even more. They might need to spread out some of your more impactful abilities and traits throughout the levels. I had a small problem with Carbuncle just standing there, but as someone already pointed out, half the time he isn't even on the field.

Having a lot of fun with SMN, even though ARR Summoner was my favourite.

yea, I love it as well. Its kinda hard to play lower level content as a summoner 90 since I LOVE seeing the primal summon and do it's massive attack... AHHHH!!! :) So I play blm and astro for lower level content and smn for lvl 90 content. :)

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Originally Posted by Tylorien

I'm a bit torn on this because I really want leviathan, but part of me also would really like them to changed the arcanums from specific color arcanums requiring specific primals to be summoned, to prismatic arcanums that allow you to summon your elemental primals based on your need. For example if you need a bit of movement and alot of up front damage you could do ifrit, garuda, ifrit, or if you had your elemental phase up when you just needed alot of movement garuda x3

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That is EXACTLY what we have. Once you learn a fight you choose which one to summon for the situation



You have a vast misunderstanding of the way current SMN works and the rotation of the primals.

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Originally Posted by Tylorien

My one real gripe is that I feel like either Garuda or Titan's gem abiltiies don't have a role, because titan's are basically straight upgrades over your base spells that are also instant cast, while garudas are instant cast but functionally weaker than the base spells

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1. Garuda is the highest DPS, followed by Titan, and Ifrit last.

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Originally Posted by Tylorien

which leads to me just sitting in titan attunement for as long as I can to use his spells for movement, and then right before my demi primal is back up, I'll pop garuda and then immediately cancel out of her without even spending her attunements.

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2. You should be using ALL primals AND their attunements as fast as possible and they all fit perfectly between your Demi phase with maybe a Ruin III or two.

3. You are level 80 SMN stop casting judgement on a class rework that you LITERALLY haven't played. You don't get the final augment to your attunement skills until 86. Which upgrades astral flow

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Originally Posted by Sheepona

That is EXACTLY what we have. Once you learn a fight you choose which one to summon for the situation



You have a vast misunderstanding of the way current SMN works and the rotation of the primals.



1. Garuda is the highest DPS, followed by Titan, and Ifrit last.



2. You should be using ALL primals AND their attunements as fast as possible and they all fit perfectly between your Demi phase with maybe a Ruin III or two.

3. You are level 80 SMN stop casting judgement on a class rework that you LITERALLY haven't played. You don't get the final augment to your attunement skills until 86. Which upgrades astral flow

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On that first bit I think you're slightly misunderstanding what I meant. I am aware you can use them in any order you want, what I mean is using the SAME primal 2-3 times consecutively instead of having to use all 3. Also I've played summoner pretty much exclusively since this rework went live. Just because I'm not level 90 doesn't mean I haven't played it. It just means I don't have endwalker atm.

I am aware that at level 86 I would get garuda's astral flow ability which I would obviously use after summoning her.

I never said I didn't summon garuda (obviously you're going to pop all 3 primals), or that I didn't ever use her attunements, just that doing so felt extremely situational and at times there was no reason to do so. I was specifically referring to garuda's gemshine and brilliance abilities, which have significantly lower potencies than ruin and tri-disaster even at their maximum listed upgrades, meaning you would only cast them when you need to move and aren't already on gcd. I also wasn't passing judgement, I absolutely love the rework, I was just commenting on something that felt a bit strange to me that is still in effect at max level unless there is some hidden passive that isnt listed in abilities or traits that buffs garuda.

For context, the maximum potency of ruin 3 is 310, while emerald rite is 230. This is what I was talking about. The reason that feels weird to me is because topaz rite, which is also instant cast like emerald rite, is also a straight upgrade over ruin 3. That is what I meant when I said, use garuda for the big cooldowns and sit in titan for mobility, because it only takes 2 globals to spent garudas arcanum and astral flow and titan's four attunement charges will probably last you through any mobility you need, but if you need 8 instant cast spells you'd obviously want to use all of garudas attunements too, but you don't have to consume them just because you summoned her.

Edit: It has however, since I made the original post been pointed out to me that while ER has a noticeably lower potency it also has a lower GCD, but that is bit that I hadn't noticed has nothing to do with my character level and more to do with not being prompted to look at the gcd :P That knowledge does not make it feel less weird though, at least by much. It's not really something I felt enough to notice whenever I'd cast the spell.

Did a roulette the other day and must say summoner feels terrible at low levels. 50 was basically press a button doesn't seem to do anything (Aethercharge) and then spam ruin, carbuncle is just there i guess. You don't even get Phoenix until level 80 now. big oof.
The actual summon Titan/Garuda/Ifrit needs to happen much sooner, the 86 ability needs to be in much sooner as well.

Agreed, from level 80 - 90 Summoner feels really fun to me.

Can’t comment on how it feels at lower levels but I can imagine it’d feel very bare without demis or astral flows.

Only kind-of criticism I’d still give is that Rekindle and Everlasting Flight are super useful but it’s available in such a short and limited window that it’s hard for it not to end up as overhealing. And of course I have to mention Ruin IV. I love the skill since it looks amazing and it’s great that it’s an AoE now, but with how much mobility you get from Gemshine/Brilliance attacks the proc just ends up sitting there forgotten about. It feels very disconnected from everything else in the skill set. Maybe if they don’t want to make it oGCD they could give it charges again so at least you could save them up for the few openings you do get to use it

Anybody else think Phoenix is just a lame summon in general? I'd rather be able to summon Odin and have him bust out a zantetsuken FF5 style or something. We already have Garuda for our birb.

That said, new SMN is very pleasing to look at and easy to play. I like it but I'm curious to see where it goes in the future.

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Originally Posted by meowmaou

Anybody else think Phoenix is just a lame summon in general? I'd rather be able to summon Odin and have him bust out a zantetsuken FF5 style or something. We already have Garuda for our birb.

That said, new SMN is very pleasing to look at and easy to play. I like it but I'm curious to see where it goes in the future.

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I don't. I quiet enjoy Phoenix, both looks and skillset. I have used the heal multiple times to save someone with.
Not that I wouldn't want to see an Odin summon to just obliterate something. I just think Summoner is lacking in many beneficial utility spells and would rather not give up another for a melee Bahamut.

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Originally Posted by Daemonfaust

Its rare seeing forum posts about people liking anything on these forums lol..

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Because that’s not what the forums are for, wanna echo chamber of lies and “everything is perfect” as your bubble permits? Go to reddit. I find these posts to be a waste of time. Especially considering how huge the debate is for SMN right now. Gives me a apologist #ThankyouGamefreak Vibe

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Originally Posted by Atamis

I don't. I quiet enjoy Phoenix, both looks and skillset. I have used the heal multiple times to save someone with.
Not that I wouldn't want to see an Odin summon to just obliterate something. I just think Summoner is lacking in many beneficial utility spells and would rather not give up another for a melee Bahamut.

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I think the ability is cool, just find Phoenix itself kind of boring compared to some of the other summons we could be drawing from in FF history. I would love some more support and buff/debuff type summons.

I don’t like ruin mage. Changing the color of the ruin spell doesn’t make it any more fun

The thing is you literally can’t create a faithful FF summoner here because in other FFs summoner isn’t really a valid thing, even Yuna is a WHM, it’s just other classes and whoever has the materia/junction/whatever equipped can use it.

So they can either create a WoW warlock, which SMN felt a lot like before, or do what they did, which comes a lot closer to Summoner, since in no FF other than FFX did. the summons stay around.

And even then, the only real use summons had in FFX was to soak 99.999 attacks from super bosses.

Once you get to 86, new-SMN is very good. My only complaints are the pre-86 rotation being way less interesting and Phoenix feeling lackluster, though it wouldn't take much to spice it up sufficiently.

Only 81 but I'm enjoying it so far. I do wish carbuncle wasn't a perma-pet and instead was a utility summons. Press the shield or damage boost and a big carbuncle appears and casts the spell...and then goes away lol. Just go all in with the flashy summons.

Like the new flow of SMN, but wish the second set of small summons could be Ramuh, Leviathan, Shiva instead of the same primals as the first set.

next expac, our level 100 skill is going to summon ardbert (and maybe together with his party)

please do this, i will convert to fulltime smn if they do this lol

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Originally Posted by gumas

next expac, our level 100 skill is going to summon ardbert (and maybe together with his party)

please do this, i will convert to fulltime smn if they do this lol

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Lights of the round?

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Originally Posted by Atamis

Lights of the round?

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i just imagine we summon ardbert like how DRK summon fray but instead of all dark like fray, we can clearly see its ardbert and help us for a while before dissipating

on the real side though, i think it will be interesting to see our character as summoner will evolve in the future to the point we can summon other being too, not just limited to primal/egi

I’d give the three base summons a long cast time, like old school FF Summoners typically had, but make them hit harder to compensate. The animation to summon them should be very elaborate too. I want to see the book floating in front of us with the pages flipping on their own, some crazy seal spinning beneath our feet, etc.

Only other thing I want is the second Ifrit ground slam to propel us backward.