[dev1022] Unofficial 6.0 Summoner Feedback thread

While I seat in a queue waiting I figured it was a good time to create the thread to consolidate all the current SMN feedback for the devs to analyze. Most of us know they aren't going to make major mechanic changes like adding Shiva, Ramuh, or Leviathan. Most of the time it will be minor tweaks. Currently 86 so I'll toss my feedback to get the ball rolling.

*Elementary Mastery is a very key skill in understanding SMN's place and without it, the job is very dulling. I would say move the trait to at least between level 64 through 73.

*While different, Crimson Cyclone/Crimson Strike is annoying since I don't have a feature to move back out of melee range. Why not let Crimson Cyclone be the dash forward and Crimson Strike be a jump back?

*Ruby Ifrit and Topaz Titan use Inferno and Earth Fury at range yet Ifrit Egi and Titan Egi slow drift toward the target to cast the enkindle. Either have them cast at range as well or give pet increase speed.

*Ruin IV spell feels off and would be nice if you could just make it and oGCD ability

*Aetherflow is a dead mechanic and unnecessary in this new design. Wouldn't be easier to just delete it all together and give Fester / Painflare 3 charges over the course of 1 minute?

*Please remove Searing Light and Radiant Aegis from Carbuncle. It a pain to use while casting summon after summon.

*On the topic of pets, removing Sic basically makes pet a useless minion that has no real purpose outside of appeasement. Why can't Summon Ifrit II call forth Ruby Ifrit then re~summon Ifrit Egi after to do auto attacks until the next Summon Spell?

The biggest gripe is Aetherflow. Painflare and Fester really only exist as fillers for rotations at this point. Making the Aetherflow system entirely useless. They could just make Painflare and Fester independent of Aetherflow charges and add fresh new skills and utilities to justify the Aetherflow system.

Gee golly another MNK/SMN feedback thread. *Throws it on the pile.*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Gee golly another MNK/SMN feedback thread. *Throws it on the pile.*

---

This is literally what the forum was made for. It isn't going to run out of threads. Better to continue from a new thread than the other highest post count one, which was a disingenuous attempt to put down anyone who liked old summoner to begin with.

Lack of depth is my main problem with the job followed by a lack of ogcds to go with all the instant spells.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haseno

The biggest gripe is Aetherflow. Painflare and Fester really only exist as fillers for rotations at this point. Making the Aetherflow system entirely useless. They could just make Painflare and Fester independent of Aetherflow charges and add fresh new skills and utilities to justify the Aetherflow system.

---

That's definitely the weakest part of the kit but it's also most of the few ogcds the job has. I'd like to see that whole group of abilities reworked and possibly expanded to add more depth to what SMN's trying to do, including Ruin 4. Hell maybe Fester and Painflare could change depending on the active summon along with the other abilities.

Another thing I find off-putting is the lack of diversity between summon rotations. Phoenix going from a 1-2 rotation to 1-1 feels lame and all the summons feel like you're just dumping your resource before going to the next. The differences that are there are good but could be better. Like Ifrit having you go into melee for one hit and that's it, though more might be too similar to RDM. Idk. Mostly the whole job just needs more depth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haseno

The biggest gripe is Aetherflow. Painflare and Fester really only exist as fillers for rotations at this point. Making the Aetherflow system entirely useless. They could just make Painflare and Fester independent of Aetherflow charges and add fresh new skills and utilities to justify the Aetherflow system.

---

The reality is Aethercharge/DWT/FWT have become the new Aetherflow because it adds 3 charges of Elemental Summons to your gauge. It function exactly how Aetherflow did.

They should remove carbuncle and give the summoner a distinct (color aura) when ever they are using the Elemental skills as if the summoners are channeling the Primal.

Garuda > Green with feathers
Ifrit > Red with Flames
Titan > Yellow with rocjs

You do realize this won't see the light of day in Square Enix, right? The devs don't read the english forums. They only read the japanese forums, of which have a very different attitude about the job then the chronic whiners in this thread. For years you told us to shut up and play another job whenever we had criticisms about the knockoff affliction mage that was pre-Endwalker summoner. Now, it is time for you to take a healthy dose of your own medicine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eva3071

You do realize this won't see the light of day in Square Enix, right? The devs don't read the english forums. They only read the japanese forums, of which have a very different attitude about the job then the chronic whiners in this thread. For years you told us to shut up and play another job whenever we had criticisms about the knockoff affliction mage that was pre-Endwalker summoner. Now, it is time for you to take a healthy dose of your own medicine.

---

If the devs don't read it and it doesn't matter, then why are you here? Just to be mad at strangers who may or may not have done what you said?

1. Ifrit Titan and Garuda should be OGCD. The class feels like it was designed more around weaving with the change to ruin and a large number of spells being instant cast but we have hardly any ogcds to weave.

2. Ruin IV does not really fit well in it's current state. As it is we are typically going to use our first Energy Drain while Bahamut is out. Ruin IV is no different than astral impulse so there is no reason to use it here. After Bahamut is gone you are likely going through your summons and there charges now which takes almost the full cd of Bahamut. As further ruin lasts for 60 seconds it feels like the only time Ruin IV has a place, is if we have to move vs casting ruby rite / slipstream, or you hold onto as your Ruin III filler before going into Bahamut again. It just feels weird perhaps it would work better as a OGCD stack from something else vs making the summons an OGCD.

3. For those of you that want the class to be a little more complex. I think it would be cool to be allowed to summon any of the 3 summons instead of each one once. They would have to likely do some balancing but I think it would add some spice to the class.

4. Pheonix combo cast should come back or rekindle should be another deathflare type move (I am selfish sorry). Pheonix feels very underwhelming when compared to bahamut.

5. Some people have mentioned swapping the class up some. Where you would use Ifrit Titan and Garuda to be build up for summoning Bahamut/Pheonix. This could be a good use for Energy Drain to trigger the 3 summons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

*Elementary Mastery is a very key skill in understanding SMN's place and without it, the job is very dulling. I would say move the trait to at least between level 64 through 73.

*While different, Crimson Cyclone/Crimson Strike is annoying since I don't have a feature to move back out of melee range. Why not let Crimson Cyclone be the dash forward and Crimson Strike be a jump back?

*Ruby Ifrit and Topaz Titan use Inferno and Earth Fury at range yet Ifrit Egi and Titan Egi slow drift toward the target to cast the enkindle. Either have them cast at range as well or give pet increase speed.

*Ruin IV spell feels off and would be nice if you could just make it and oGCD ability

*Aetherflow is a dead mechanic and unnecessary in this new design. Wouldn't be easier to just delete it all together and give Fester / Painflare 3 charges over the course of 1 minute?

*Please remove Searing Light and Radiant Aegis from Carbuncle. It a pain to use while casting summon after summon.

*On the topic of pets, removing Sic basically makes pet a useless minion that has no real purpose outside of appeasement. Why can't Summon Ifrit II call forth Ruby Ifrit then re~summon Ifrit Egi after to do auto attacks until the next Summon Spell?

---

These would all be a good start.

More festers/painflares and Ruin 4 being oGCD would do wonders. Really feels like we could use more oGCD's.

Another little tweak might be giving back building Ruin 4 stacks when doing fester/painflare. These could either be more Ruin 4 casts or expended for a damage buff when casting Ruin 4 to give that part of summoner mechanics more body and give back the sensation we are building up to our maximum dps window.

Finally the current three summons, Bahamut and Phoenix could use a little number tweaking to make them more distinct. Sure, they all have their identity (after lvl 86 mostly, but eh, that is a different issue), but only Ifrit feels really distinct imho. If they become more distinct, a specialized tool, another possible application for the aetherflow system could be extending or resetting your elemental attunement to maximize our adaptability.

In that vein, why not let us choose whether we go Bahamut or Phoenix first?

Do Ruin 3 and the basic AOE really need to be different buttons from our elemental attunement nukes? Why not let them morph during summons like they do during trances? Sure, I can see why you would like them, mostly as a fall-back when going into Ifrit at the wrong moment, but it also devaluates having made that choice in the first place.

All in all, all the basic pieces are here to make SMN unlike any other job, just needs some minor adjustments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

*Aetherflow is a dead mechanic and unnecessary in this new design. Wouldn't be easier to just delete it all together and give Fester / Painflare 3 charges over the course of 1 minute?

---

It does have the sort of feeling that it's going out the door, but this is also currently one of the most satisfying parts of SMN for me, the extra burst and weaving on every Bahamut/Phoenix summon and that explosive opener we get because of it.

I've played SMN since Stormblood and loved how that iteration tied Aetherflow into DWT/Bahamut aesthetically, as well as how DWT was flexible in use within the 1 min cd of Aetherflow. EW has returned that feeling somewhat thanks to the choice of rotation with the summons, so now it's just missing the feeling of a busy rotation.

I agree with the suggestion of having an Aetherflow cap of 3 and think it would be nice to get it from summoning Bahamut/Phoenix. An ambitious side of me would also love to get 1 from summoning Ifrit/Titan/Garuda for a total of 6 per minute (with potencies adjusted to avoid being overpowered of course, this is purely about gameplay). An even more ambitious side would like an extra Aetherflow OGCD option and for the Aetherflow abilities to also change with our summons, for a little on the fly decision making about which attunement you want to spend the stacks under rather than these just being extra empty Fester casts.

I am bored and I have time, so I might as well conntribute.

I have said it before in other threads, but SMN feels really simplified prior to level 86. The job is child's play, really. After 86, the job seems to come into its own as a late bloomer, which is okay for me. My only negative complaint about the job in its current state is that I feel something needs to be done to make the job more engaging before level 86.

I was saddened by the removal of DoTs, but it was a long time coming. DoTs were feeling more tacked on to the SMN identity after Bahamut and Phoenix were introduced. Tri-Disaster also made keeping DoTs on targets easy and they were not very visual, so it is not like DoTs meant much in the fun department. Closer to the end of Shadowbringers, I was finding my DoTs to be an annoyance, really.

After level 86, I am a big fan of the new three summon phases. Changing between the phases keeps me engaged in battle and each of the phases adds personality to the job. Titan's Mountain Buster and Ifrit's Crimson combo are memeworthy. And when the three elementals change at level 90 to full-sized primals, I feel strong and I like that.

I cannot complain about how much more mobile the job is now, either. SMN was the mobile caster before and now it is even more mobile, which gives a caster job choice to players who hate standing around feel the need to move around a lot.

I do not see this mentioned much, but I am a fan of the Enkindle changes for Bahamut and Phoenix. Prior to the change, trying to smash two of the Enkindles into each phase was stressful. It was easy to do, but it still gave me slight anxiety every phase because it was easy to mess up.

I am generally happy with the new SMN and I am excited to try it out in high tier content.

Also like to add

Let Searing Light be useable outside of combat.

I think a better aproach would be switch rekindle and searing light, we get a party tool every 1 min or 2 and we get a raid boost on dps every phoenix phase