Suggestion for Sage regarding Eurkrasia

Sage has felt fantastic to play so far! Almost everything I wanted out of Scholar but cleaner and friendlier to use on a class that feels rewarding. Just one small thing bugs me: when you use Eukrasia, you have to commit your next cast to one of your Eukrasian spells or awkwardly try and click off the Eukrasia buff from your hotbar. My suggestion is simple: make it so you can use Eukrasia again to cancel it. This helps Sages react to not needing to throw out shields (like if another players uses them or if heal-over-time ticks bring party members up to a safe health range, therefore not needing shields), so they can either prep normal heal casts or (more likely) not need to refresh Euk. Dosis to get rid of the Eukrasia buff.

most of sage's spells give out shields using Eukrasian Diagnosis and Eukrasian Prognosis just turns the normal version of the skills to an enhanced version of them to help out

Mhm, I know how it works! I'm just saying I'd like to be able to toggle it back off in the event I don't need the shielding from Euk. Prognosis/Euk. Diagnosis.

I see what you're saying that you want to be able to have the ability to turn it off or on when you feel like using it, but you could also use it for the DoT effect that it gives to Eukrasian Dosis

Again, I'm aware. I'm saying I don't want to have to use my DoT when it's already on the enemy, nor shielding when my allies don't need the shields. I would like to switch back to using my normal damage ability if the situation changes to where I don't need any of the Eukrasian skills.

I agree. Especially when the shield doesn’t overwrite the other shield. If I already have DoT up and shields up its a waste, so toggling it off would be nice.

My Idea make a shild and use Pepsis or make allways Eukrasian Diagnosis for getting a Addersting stack (30s is long better than TBN xD). Thats would be my ideas. The best is to know the use of Eukrasia and when not.

I have one wish this Holiday Season.

MAKE

EUKRASIA

A

OGCD

PLEASE

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

My Idea make a shild and use Pepsis or make allways Eukrasian Diagnosis for getting a Addersting stack (30s is long better than TBN xD). Thats would be my ideas. The best is to know the use of Eukrasia and when not.

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Multiple issues: it costs more MP to use a shield, I don't necessarily want the healing, someone else may have already used a shield, and there could be no damage going out in 30 seconds. I know when I want to use Eukrasia *most* of the time, but there are times when that need changes over the course of half a second.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I have one wish this Holiday Season.

MAKE

EUKRASIA

A

OGCD

PLEASE

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I don't necessarily agree with this just because of how the Eukrasian skills are designed. It still takes only one GCD to use both Eukrasia and the Eukrasian skill. The only downside to Eukrasia is losing one weave window off of your DoT compared to the other healers.

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Originally Posted by TekkyAnonymous

Again, I'm aware. I'm saying I don't want to have to use my DoT when it's already on the enemy, nor shielding when my allies don't need the shields. I would like to switch back to using my normal damage ability if the situation changes to where I don't need any of the Eukrasian skills.

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If you need to turn it off, then you also don't need the GCD you were going to use it on, and using another GCD such as Phelgma or Toxicon will not cancel the effect out. IOW, there is not much need for this and it sounds more like you are using Eukrasia when you don't actually need to.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I have one wish this Holiday Season.

MAKE

EUKRASIA

A

OGCD

PLEASE

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As someone who played Heavensward Dark Knight (And enjoy Eukrasia specifically because it strongly resembles Dark Arts), Hell no.
Keep it on the GCD.
If it was off the global, They may aswell just make the Eukrasian versions extra buttons the way Physik/Adloq are.
I much prefer it the way it is, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Rombus

I agree. Especially when the shield doesn’t overwrite the other shield. If I already have DoT up and shields up its a waste, so toggling it off would be nice.

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If you had the DoT and Shields up already, why did you even press Eukrasia?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

If you need to turn it off, then you also don't need the GCD you were going to use it on, and using another GCD such as Phelgma or Toxicon will not cancel the effect out. IOW, there is not much need for this and it sounds more like you are using Eukrasia when you don't actually need to.

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The problem is how variable damage and healing is. Defensive cooldowns fall off, regens tick, enemies die or spawn, and then the weird stuff with how shields and healing register. A lot can change in half a second, and I would like to be able to go back on my decision after that half of a second. That's all I'm asking. Phlegma and Toxicon also use resources, so that's not really a reliable option to hold onto.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

As someone who played Heavensward Dark Knight (And enjoy Eukrasia specifically because it strongly resembles Dark Arts), Hell no.
Keep it on the GCD.
If it was off the global, They may aswell just make the Eukrasian versions extra buttons the way Physik/Adloq are.
I much prefer it the way it is, thanks.



If you had the DoT and Shields up already, why did you even press Eukrasia?

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How would making Eukrasia an OGCD change the way SGE plays at all except making it feel smoother not having to give up an entire GCD to set up another GCD.

Make it weavable like Aetherflow inbetween attacks.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

How would making Eukrasia an OGCD change the way SGE plays at all except making it feel smoother not having to give up an entire GCD to set up another GCD like Aetherflow is now?

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because that's not how Eukrasia works. Eukrasia takes 1 second to setup and another 1.5 seconds to use the augmented skills, equaling 2.5 seconds, or one full GCD.

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Originally Posted by TekkyAnonymous

because that's not how Eukrasia works. Eukrasia takes 1 second to setup and another 1.5 seconds to use the augmented skills, equaling 2.5 seconds, or one full GCD.

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You are correct. I just now noticed that both Eukrasia and Eukrasia skills all have shorter recast timers.

From my short time playing it FELT like an entire GCD but I see I was mistaken.

Isn't Pepsis the "oops, I didn't need more shielding button" that you should use before reapplying a new shield?

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Isn't Pepsis the "oops, I didn't need more shielding button" that you should use before reapplying a new shield?

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potentially but not necessarely, i.e. there are a few possible uses of pepsis that have more planning to them than just "oops, didn't intent to do this."

all in all what op asks for allready would mean you wasted time to activate eukrasia which you didn't need, therefore i would say op's suggestion is quite resonable as all it would really do would allow you to be a tiny bit more flexible if you messed up or the situation changed very abruptly do to unforseen circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

potentially but not necessarely, i.e. there are a few possible uses of sepsis that have more planning to them than just "oops, didn't intent to do this."

all in all what op asks for allready would mean you wasted time to activate eukrasia which you didn't need, therefore i would say op's suggestion is quite resonable as all it would really do would allow you to be a tiny bit more flexible if you messed up or the situation changed very abruptly do to unforseen circumstances.

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Exactly this, thank you for making this a bit more concise.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I have one wish this Holiday Season.

MAKE

EUKRASIA

A

OGCD

PLEASE

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This please. Sage feels almost perfect but it's so awkward for Eukrasia to be on the GCD. Tank's gonna get hit by the tank buster before i can react, wait out the GCD and use E-Diagnosis

I'm fine with Eukrasia being on the GCD. The problem most people are having is that they're treating Eukrasia Prognosis as an instant GCD that they can immediately use, and that's really not the case - you have a hidden "1 second" cast time with Eukrasia's recast time being 1 second before you have access to Eukrasia Prognosis. The difference between Eukrasia Prognosis and a 1 second cast spell is that you can still move while casting it since Eukrasia itself is instant.

If you needed to shield half a second ago and changed your mind half a second later, chances are that you activated Eukrasia one GCD too late.

The eukrasia heals are like pseudo-instant, having a 1-sec prepare cast and then being instant (and using the rest 1.5sec gcd as cooldown). So kinda like a semi-instant gcd? It's quite unique, don't think any other skill in the game functions like that. It gives it a nice feeling of being rewarding for thinking ahead, already preparing eukrasia when you have time to cast to then throw the enhanced heal while on the move. Changing it to off-gcd (and making the eukrasia skills be a full 2.5 gcd cooldown) would make it feel much more generic, in my opinion.

As for the suggestion of OP, sure why not. It's not like using the skill again to remove the status is something a player is otherwise unable to do - its possible to right-click the eukrasia status and turn it off that way. Would just be more convenient (and more intuitive) to be able to turn eukrasia off again by pressing the skill.

Yeh I had a few times when, since Eukrasia isn't on a timer, I thought 'ohh, then I'll just activate the buff and leave it there till I need a Diagnosis shield'....except then I realize/remember Dosis also changes to its Eukrasian equivalent....oops

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Originally Posted by TekkyAnonymous

Again, I'm aware. I'm saying I don't want to have to use my DoT when it's already on the enemy, nor shielding when my allies don't need the shields. I would like to switch back to using my normal damage ability if the situation changes to where I don't need any of the Eukrasian skills.

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The toggle off would likely use a GCD anyway so just use the DoT.

Toggling off affects the GCD. I tried using "Eukrasia Prognosis" immediately after I right clicked the Eukrasia buff. What should happen is that the skill would activate Prognosis if there was no affect to the GCD.

What happened instead is that the animation of "Eukrasia Prognosis" would start, and then immediately stop and cancel before the skill swaps to "Prognosis". It would never use "Prognosis", so the action is never queued in the first place. If I were to mash the skill "Prognosis" after to queue the action, there would be a considerable delay from when I wanted to use the skill and when the skill finally activates at this point (~1 second on the GCD).

Based on that, we can tell there's a slight GCD delay as the skills swap from its Eukrasia form to its regular form.

Most likely, Eukrasia was designed so it was never meant to be turned off manually, or it'll end up creating a bad habit of delaying your GCD immensely over the course of a fight. That would be much worse than a freecure trap imo, because you get NOTHING done in a GCD rather than a 400 potency cure.

Admittedly it's a bit difficult with a controller, but Eukrasia can be turned off manually - like other buffs - via the status list if you find it isn't needed for the next GCD. This also doesn't use up the other 1.5sec GCD window.

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Originally Posted by TekkyAnonymous

Sage has felt fantastic to play so far! Almost everything I wanted out of Scholar but cleaner and friendlier to use on a class that feels rewarding. Just one small thing bugs me: when you use Eukrasia, you have to commit your next cast to one of your Eukrasian spells or awkwardly try and click off the Eukrasia buff from your hotbar. My suggestion is simple: make it so you can use Eukrasia again to cancel it.

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I prefer the way it's working right now - so accidental double clicks during intense moments don't put me in the wrong state. If it was a toggle I'd be constantly checking my UI to figure out which state I'm in. As is now, I'm not doing that as so many spells change their look and light up that it's more clear what state I am in.

And I prefer game systems that require split second correct choices and frustrate a wrong choice OVER those that ask for a repeated rotation to be memorized. So this is working ideally for me at present.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

As someone who played Heavensward Dark Knight (And enjoy Eukrasia specifically because it strongly resembles Dark Arts), Hell no.
Keep it on the GCD.
If it was off the global, They may aswell just make the Eukrasian versions extra buttons the way Physik/Adloq are.
I much prefer it the way it is, thanks.

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HW Dark Arts was an oGCD that you could weave between 2 GCDs. It did not function the same way as Eukrasia, so pardon if I don’t see the resemblance here.

That said, after playing SGE, I’ve gotten used to how Eukrasia works now. If we were to get another oGCD, I’d prefer Phlegma or Toxicon to be it.

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Originally Posted by Jallun

Admittedly it's a bit difficult with a controller, but Eukrasia can be turned off manually - like other buffs - via the status list if you find it isn't needed for the next GCD. This also doesn't use up the other 1.5sec GCD window.

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It’s not a perfect solution, but could make a /statusoff macro for it. Though macros don’t queue very well in this game, so you will likely clip the next GCD. But probably around the same loss as having to hit Eukrasia a second time.

I was reminded of this because I used to have /statusoff macros for AST before Undraw was ever a thing.

Toxicon would be the perfect choice for becoming an OGCD.

It would justify it getting an entire mechanic around.

Like has been said in other threads already, right now it's just a glorified Ruin II with net neutral potency.

Currently, the only change I feel Sage needs is for Rhizomata to grant an Addersting Stack. That's it. No additional buffs or nerfs required.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Currently, the only change I feel Sage needs is for Rhizomata to grant an Addersting Stack. That's it. No additional buffs or nerfs required.

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While this would be nice, it'd also be extremely helpful to have a trait where critical hits with attack spells also generate a stack of Addersting (excluding Toxicon itself). Can possibly fuse this with the current level 66 trait.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

The toggle off would likely use a GCD anyway so just use the DoT.

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Not likely. It would just cancel the effect. The things is if they made this change, they might increase the recast timer on it, so if you change your mind and turn it off you'll have to wait a bit before you can use it again.

I say just leave it as is, I fear a toggle would lead to gameplay that is far less optimal than having to toss out an unneeded shield or refreshing Edosis.

edit: Now that I think about it, if you're a bit spammy with Eukrasia, it is probably better to just toss a shield on the tank or highest agro target. That will at least return your GCD to you through Toxicon.

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Originally Posted by Averax

This please. Sage feels almost perfect but it's so awkward for Eukrasia to be on the GCD. Tank's gonna get hit by the tank buster before i can react, wait out the GCD and use E-Diagnosis

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It takes less time to Eukrasian Diagnosis than it does to Adlo.
Anticipate the tank busters like SCH does.

I feel that Eukrasia is fine. The lower GCD makes up for it. However, my problem lies more with non-Eukrasia Diagnosis and Prognosis, which are more or less not worth using. I haven’t found myself ever using them. They may as well not exist, IMO. Their uselessness makes Eukrasia feel less like a flexibility mechanic and more like just another hoop to jump through.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

I feel that Eukrasia is fine. The lower GCD makes up for it. However, my problem lies more with non-Eukrasia Diagnosis and Prognosis, which are more or less not worth using. I haven’t found myself ever using them. They may as well not exist, IMO. Their uselessness makes Eukrasia feel less like a flexibility mechanic and more like just another hoop to jump through.

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I've used prognosis intentionally a few times, but literally just to top off during downtime. It's value is quite low economically speaking, though I can see it useful as an emergency measure, and value it's existence for that alone.

Diagnosis, I've used far more times, but because I think Eurkrasia itself is clunky. I really wish it's an oGCD and all related skills have normal GCDs instead. I've been finding it difficult to change my instincts to treat it as an oGCD that buffs the next GCD, rather than use it as a half-GCD skill it currently is. Because of that, I've found myself throwing out a vanilla Diagnosis here and there by accident.

As it stands, Eurkrasia isn't even some foresight move like some have been suggesting, as the existence of Eurkrasia Dosis ruins it entirely. You can't precharge Diagnosis outside of pre-pulls as it'll get in the way of your actual spells 99% of the time. As it is, it's a purely aesthetic mechanic that runs counter to some existing instincts the game has built up. Not some big brained strat mechanic that we like to imagine it is.

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Originally Posted by TekkyAnonymous

Mhm, I know how it works! I'm just saying I'd like to be able to toggle it back off in the event I don't need the shielding from Euk. Prognosis/Euk. Diagnosis.

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/micon "Eukrasia"
/ac "Eukrasia"
/statusoff "Eukrasia"

This macro will do exactly what you were asking for. Alternatively you can click it off on the buff bar.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Isn't Pepsis the "oops, I didn't need more shielding button" that you should use before reapplying a new shield?

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You know, that makes sense. I've been holding onto mine as an "Oh shite" button. Classic case of a spell so good, you never use it.

I'm going to try using Pepsis more often in the manner you suggested.

Currently, the only thing turning me off playing sage is the Eukrasia CD..... I hate having to hit it constantly.

Now that I’m leveling SCH, I see how much Eukrasia spoiled me with making my shields instant cast. So much easier to pre-shield while running dungeons on a SGE.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Now that I’m leveling SCH, I see how much Eukrasia spoiled me with making my shields instant cast. So much easier to pre-shield while running dungeons on a SGE.

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This is exactly why Noct AST, and now SGE, feel far superior than SCH as far as shielding goes imo. That feeling of bliss when a non-tank party member is to be hit by a mechanic, just to have the bubble warding it off completely, that's something I'd never be able to do with SCH unless I 'burn' a swiftcast