Battle Regimens: creating tactics in battle (repost)

Battle Regimen: creating tactics in battle
Battle regimens have SOOO much potential to be used in a tactical manner if only SE would borrow a few concepts from a few games. namely 3 FFXI (skills chains) Lord of the rings: Online (conjunctions) and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (Magic stacking)

I propose a change to the way Battle regimens function. allow them to create a variety of effects that can benefit the party tactically.

Currently BRs are used to create bonus damage to the enemy, What if we allow different skills, spells and abilities to create beneficial effects on the party as well?

for instance:

Allow battle regimens to augment stamina regeneration when certain skills are stacked.
Think: Invigorate or Comrade in Arms + Second Wind = Hastega

Allow battle regimens to create healing effects on the PT when certain spells or skills are stacked.
Think: Cure + Protect= massive Regenga

Allow Spells to be combined via battle regimen to create larger spells
Blizzard + Blizzard = Blizzara (huge ice spells)
or
Poison + Water = acid rain (DoT + Def Down)

So much fun can come out of a system like this. It could lend to class uniqueness and defiantly lead to tactics used in battle

uhmm i agree until i do not know what to add into your suggestion D:

I won't add anything other than to second your mention of combined spells via BR. As a caster I think that's a great idea to bring casters "into the fold" so to speak a little more.

Interesting idea. :)

I like this idea.

I think buffs and PT enhancements should be handled on the PT side. We still have a lot of classes that haven't been introduced into the game and we wouldn't want them to be gimped/minimized by BRs. Skillchains and Magic Bursts used in conjunction with Battle Regimens however I think is an excellent idea!

Agreed!

Square never really captialized on how cool Chrono Trigger cross abilities were. It would be cool to see everything that has been mentioned and these added. I know thats never gonna happen but it would be cool.

How about something like

Prayer-circles

Mages stand in specific position and call forth greater magic than they would be able to alone. Think of the Tarutarus in the opening FFXI cutscene. They chanted together and called forth Meteor.


Battle formations

Similarly, melee jobs could stand in certain battle formations to increase defence or attack

For example, one such battle formation could be: Wall where player stand in a wall and bar passage to the mages and archers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Allow Spells to be combined via battle regimen to create larger spells
Blizzard + Blizzard = Blizzara (huge ice spells)
or
Poison + Water = acid rain (DoT + Def Down)

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Thats the part I found the most interesting... thats a REALLY cool idea
but honestly, we can all agree that without knowing how they intend to change the battle system, there is no way to determine how BR should be implemented... although however they do it, I like this idea.... if it is incorporated into the new system, that would be awesome

This idea is 100% pure awesome and we should give this thread more attention so I am Bumping it!

How about the idea from the opening cinematic? The conjurer casted fire on the archer's arrow.

About Regenga and similar effects, you would need a different initiation system for cure /protect type spells , doesn't make sense to initiate cure on the enemy.



And, create noticeable visual effects for current Battle Regimens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

About Regenga and similar effects, you would need a different initiation system for cure /protect type spells , doesn't make sense to initiate cure on the enemy.
And, create noticeable visual effects for current Battle Regimens.

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I would think that PT buff regimens could still be implemented under the same system. the BR mode essentially tells the game "these skills are being combined." Obviously you wouldn't target a mob with cure or protect. It's just a matter of context, Go into BR mode > player 1 select skill (enemy or player target skill) > player 2 select skill (enemy or player target) > begin BR.

And yes, please dear Eorzea deities, please have some spectacular effects (eye candy) for successful BRs.

Did you know that the current Battle Regimen has SIX effects not just one that you mention? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com.../battle02.html This is a SE link (click on battle menu then Effect-Inducing Tactics). Many persons do not know the six nor do many of them understand other effects like incapacitation- several tier II weaponskills that "maim" the mob further reducing its TP generation and lengthening its TP moves.

Here is a combo you can try on Aldgoat Billy. you will need at least 2 persons-preferably a LNC and PUG or MRD- then you will do the following skills in the regimen: 1) Heavy Strike/Heavy Swing ---> Moonrise followed by 2) Skewer II -----> Concussive Blow II/ Skull Sunder II. Assuming the both regimens hit and you are fortunate to knock off the Billy's Horns, you would have effectively rendered the Billy's TP moves null. Because a normal attack to weaponskill BR causes Regimen of Constraint, which reduces TP generation for mob and lengthens TP moves cast time, and Moonrise also reduces TP generation, and finally, if you knock the horns off, incapacitation also lengthens TP moves cast time and reduces its attack potency. That was just one tactic that is viable and quite useful. It can be utilizes also on Skeletons (Good SP).

There are several different BR combos that can be used to augment existing weaponskills effects/magic effects to cause CRAZY:cool: things to happen.

I will give you one more for for strong dmg. you will need 3 members: preferably 2 mages (con & thm) and one melee, or two melee and one mage.
First scenario
BR= Light Attack + (spirit or phantom) Dart-- this cause regimen of trauma, lowering magic defense
then you stack element dots pertaining to your next BR magic spell--example shock.
Now everyone buffs
BR= Elemental spell (Thunder)+ Thm spell (Scourge)+ weaponskill (Skull Sunder)

This combo as discribed will give you a big boom even at lower levels.

Second Scenario
BR= light attack + light attack + (spirit or phantom) dart---this will cause both regimen of ruin (defense down) and regimen of trauma (magic defense down)
mage (if con) stack elemental dots
everyone buffs
BR= WS+ WS+ magic (Thunder)

With practice and team work you can conduct the combos regimens in 7 seconds of obtain the requisite TP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by javid

Did you know that the current Battle Regimen has SIX effects not just one that you mention? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com.../battle02.html This is a SE link (click on battle menu then Effect-Inducing Tactics). Many persons do not know the six nor do many of them understand other effects like incapacitation- several tier II weaponskills that "maim" the mob further reducing its TP generation and lengthening its TP moves.

Here is a combo you can try on Aldgoat Billy. you will need at least 2 persons-preferably a LNC and PUG or MRD- then you will do the following skills in the regimen: 1) Heavy Strike/Heavy Swing ---> Moonrise followed by 2) Skewer II -----> Concussive Blow II/ Skull Sunder II. Assuming the both regimens hit and you are fortunate to knock off the Billy's Horns, you would have effectively rendered the Billy's TP moves null. Because a normal attack to weaponskill BR causes Regimen of Constraint, which reduces TP generation for mob and lengthens TP moves cast time, and Moonrise also reduces TP generation, and finally, if you knock the horns off, incapacitation also lengthens TP moves cast time and reduces its attack potency. That was just one tactic that is viable and quite useful. It can be utilizes also on Skeletons (Good SP).

There are several different BR combos that can be used to augment existing weaponskills effects/magic effects to cause CRAZY:cool: things to happen.

I will give you one more for for strong dmg. you will need 3 members: preferably 2 mages (con & thm) and one melee, or two melee and one mage.
First scenario
BR= Light Attack + (spirit or phantom) Dart-- this cause regimen of trauma, lowering magic defense
then you stack element dots pertaining to your next BR magic spell--example shock.
Now everyone buffs
BR= Elemental spell (Thunder)+ Thm spell (Scourge)+ weaponskill (Skull Sunder)

This combo as discribed will give you a big boom even at lower levels.

Second Scenario
BR= light attack + light attack + (spirit or phantom) dart---this will cause both regimen of ruin (defense down) and regimen of trauma (magic defense down)
mage (if con) stack elemental dots
everyone buffs
BR= WS+ WS+ magic (Thunder)

With practice and team work you can conduct the combos regimens in 7 seconds of obtain the requisite TP.

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I like the sound of that, but not many people will actually use it, I think most people prefer easier and fast-peaced attacks than stocking up some combo with Battle Regimen

I agree with you assessment that some (if not most) will not prefer the cumbersome tactics. However I argue that the best of the tactics should be left to the most dedicated. I hope they do not make this game JUST for the causal player-do throw her a bone though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by javid

I agree with you assessment that some (if not most) will not prefer the cumbersome tactics. However I argue that the best of the tactics should be left to the most dedicated. I hope they do not make this game JUST for the causal player-do throw her a bone though.

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Hehe, well as me being a dedicated one to this game, I'd love to give it a try but there's nobody around (AFAIK) that would want to try this, except you probably, but I'm sure you're not on Trabia, so TOO BAD I can't give it a try :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by javid

I agree with you assessment that some (if not most) will not prefer the cumbersome tactics. However I argue that the best of the tactics should be left to the most dedicated. I hope they do not make this game JUST for the causal player-do throw her a bone though.

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Actually that's the reason why i think BR are awesome: with a good tactic it can be devastating, but even doing it with random skills it's still good, plus the fact that it can be performed by 2 or 8 people being still usefull is a great thing.

The only problem is that it's really hard for casual players to get to know its effectivness, I guess that's the point they need to address first.

The OP suggestion sounds like something really nice, but I doubt it would fit an mmo, there would be way too many combinations unless you don't want it to performed by only two people; also I think it would be something really hard to develop and update (imagine the work that has to be done when they add new classes/skills). Also the buffing combinations would render a future buffing class/build/specialization useless (wich I really hope they implement ^^')

Quote:

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Originally Posted by javid

Did you know that the current Battle Regimen has SIX effects not just one that you mention?

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Yep fully aware of all the regimens. Getting people to do them is another thing. But thats neither here nor there.

4/6 of the current regimens allow for more dmg to be done to the mob. the last two enfeeble it with increased casting times or TP abilities cost.

Under our current BR system if two conj start a BR and each cue up "Blizzard" nothing happens.

My train of thought was more along the line of creating exciting effects through teamwork.
So if 2 conj start a BR and both cue up "Blizzard" instead of the two normal spells hitting a large ice crystal envelops the mob and then shatters dealing bonus damage larger then if the two spells were cast separately.

Currently the benefits or more largely the desire to use team work to implement the BR after effects isn't there. 1) because there isn't a flashy effect that is associated with the BR, and 2) other than incapping the mob, the enfeebling effects just don't seem worth it (currently) .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alcide

The OP suggestion sounds like something really nice, but I doubt it would fit an mmo, there would be way too many combinations unless you don't want it to performed by only two people; also I think it would be something really hard to develop and update (imagine the work that has to be done when they add new classes/skills). Also the buffing combinations would render a future buffing class/build/specialization useless (wich I really hope they implement ^^')

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FFXI (a MMO) introduced WS & WS stacking to create a skill chain that could then be cast on by a mage for bonus damage (i'm sure you're aware of this already)
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N94rmHin7SU

Lord of the rings: online (another MMO) inspired by FFXI introduced "Conjunctions" which had a variety of effects from bonus damage, mob enfeebles, to PT buffs.
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlLLb...eature=related

The ground work is already there with the Battle Regimen mode. Some art assets and some coding would of course need to be created. To NOT make future jobs obsolete you can give them the ability to create similar effects in their own skill set, instead of requiring 2 or 3 people to do so.

I've tried battle regimen alone and I can already find an increase of damage even if it's 1-hit "combo" (Lol), so I guess doing a full combo will surely bring many benefits, but again, who's out there that really wanna do that :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

My train of thought was more along the line of creating exciting effects through teamwork.
So if 2 conj start a BR and both cue up "Blizzard" instead of the two normal spells hitting a large ice crystal envelops the mob and then shatters dealing bonus damage larger then if the two spells were cast separately.

Currently the benefits or more largely the desire to use team work to implement the BR after effects isn't there. 1) because there isn't a flashy effect that is associated with the BR, and 2) other than incapping the mob, the enfeebling effects just don't seem worth it (currently) .



FFXI (a MMO) introduced WS & WS stacking to create a skill chain that could then be cast on by a mage for bonus damage (i'm sure you're aware of this already)
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N94rmHin7SU

Lord of the rings: online (another MMO) inspired by FFXI introduced "Conjunctions" which had a variety of effects from bonus damage, mob enfeebles, to PT buffs.
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlLLb...eature=related

The ground work is already there with the Battle Regimen mode. Some art assets and some coding would of course need to be created. To NOT make future jobs obsolete you can give them the ability to create similar effects in their own skill set, instead of requiring 2 or 3 people to do so.

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I most definitely agree with more effects being introduced LATER. There is little incentive to add more BR if ppl rarely use the all the current BR and Battle Inducted effects (incapacitation). Surely a revamp of the BR animations would make the attempt more tempting-FFXI Fusion animation ftw.:mad:

I've had my linkshell do a few regimens , even I was surprised to get 1.5k damage on a mob compared to everyone else's 100-200 damage ... however except for the number, its not very noticeable . I've even made a video on that too ...

after that, we were using them without argument as to whether they were a waste of time and effort or not.

Getting people to want to do them would really, really help. It is hard work, and I'd want to see that paid off with a nice animation and damage numbers separate to the attack itself (say if thunder did 500 normally, show thunder doing 500 and the effect doing 1000 damage. Or say a defence down regimen ; attacks do the damage they would have done + bonus damage in a different colour).



(Anyone want to see the video of that thunder ? =P)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Battle Regimen: creating tactics in battle
Battle regimens have SOOO much potential to be used in a tactical manner if only SE would borrow a few concepts from a few games. namely 3 FFXI (skills chains) Lord of the rings: Online (conjunctions) and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (Magic stacking)

I propose a change to the way Battle regimens function. allow them to create a variety of effects that can benefit the party tactically.

Currently BRs are used to create bonus damage to the enemy, What if we allow different skills, spells and abilities to create beneficial effects on the party as well?

for instance:

Allow battle regimens to augment stamina regeneration when certain skills are stacked.
Think: Invigorate or Comrade in Arms + Second Wind = Hastega

Allow battle regimens to create healing effects on the PT when certain spells or skills are stacked.
Think: Cure + Protect= massive Regenga

Allow Spells to be combined via battle regimen to create larger spells
Blizzard + Blizzard = Blizzara (huge ice spells)
or
Poison + Water = acid rain (DoT + Def Down)

So much fun can come out of a system like this. It could lend to class uniqueness and defiantly lead to tactics used in battle

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Hmmm.

BR doesn't give only a damage bonus, but some important buff/debuff.

You describe 2 skills. Ok, fine. And with 3? 4? 8? 15 players?

LOTRO system is not based on skills, but colors (4). red red red. blue blue blue, red x5 green etc etc and it has
1. Random activation
2. 1 minute of cooldown

If SE creates a system where every 2 skills we have a different effect, with over 200 base skills, there will be a mass suicide of programmers.

Anyway the idea is nice, I like the lotro system, and the Rikku's mixing (FF10).

Maybe they can take the Steiner/vivi combo, and create something similar, or use some rare and difficult combination for summon.

Freeze, Blizzard2, Frost2, Freeze; when Freeze hits you summon Shiva.