Nothings changed in tos that effects my game play.

All these people crying out. How rude of players you must have been.
I've been contacted by a gm once in nearly 20 years of mmos.

How often do you get cops called on you is how often gm should be called.

MMOS AND LIFE
GOLDEN RULE
Do on to others as you would have them do on you.

But how will we ever give advice? How will we ever socialize?! The TYRANNY of it all!

The same way us Canadians have for years we wait till someone asks for help.

Kinda weird how all these 'good people' are so motivated to make condescending threads and posts mocking other people.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Kinda weird how all these 'good people' are so motivated to make condescending threads and posts mocking other people.

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Mainly because they have no idea just how ridiculous they sound.

We don't usually have stuff like that on the JP DCs. I guess it's a mentality thing. People are expected to learn by themselves first, before they join a party with players, and if someone has obviously no idea what they're doing and is trying to get a carry, we disband.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

We don't usually have stuff like that on the JP DCs. I guess it's a mentality thing. People are expected to learn by themselves first, before they join a party with players, and if someone has obviously no idea what they're doing and is trying to get a carry, we disband.

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How exactly does a new player pull off learning to heal a dungeon by themselves? Not being snarky I just can't figure out how one would do it.

There are no mechanics that wipe a group in early dungeons, that's where you learn the basics.

not sure why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist we've known for awhile that yoshi has been planning to change the TOS so he can get rid of all the sellers in the party finder


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...o_update_user/

Well, if someone just refuses to learn, it seems you somehow have to make up for it now, because telling them they have to change what they are doing is now banable...

I hope the dungeons in Endwalker have a Trust System...

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

All these people crying out. How rude of players you must have been.
I've been contacted by a gm once in nearly 20 years of mmos.

How often do you get cops called on you is how often gm should be called.

MMOS AND LIFE
GOLDEN RULE
Do on to others as you would have them do on you.

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Congradulations, what you said would violate the TOS if you'd said it in game.

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

Well, if someone just refuses to learn, it seems you somehow have to make up for it now, because telling them they have to change what they are doing is now banable...

I hope the dungeons in Endwalker have a Trust System...

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Wrong. You can still suggest what has to be done to clear stuff. Just don't be a douchebag about it and play the flame&blame game with them, lol.

There is a difference between "We have to stack here to clear." and "YOU SUCK CAUSE YOU DIDN'T STACKED AND WE WIPED CAUSE OF YOU!!!"

According to the new ToS even a "Dude, look, i explain it again, DO NOT stand in that spot during the mechanics! You have to follow this way!" is too much, because its critisicm on their playstyle.

Actually, just by the wording of the new ToS, you comment would already be reportable, because you dared to tell me I was wrong. Thats criticism.

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

According to the new ToS even a "Dude, look, i explain it again, DO NOT stand in that spot during the mechanics! You have to follow this way!" is too much, because its critisicm on their playstyle.

Actually, just by the wording of the new ToS, you comment would already be reportable, because you dared to tell me I was wrong. Thats criticism.

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Unless you word it politely or in a non confrontational manner. It's all about the tone, man. Always has been.

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

According to the new ToS even a "Dude, look, i explain it again, DO NOT stand in that spot during the mechanics! You have to follow this way!" is too much, because its critisicm on their playstyle.

Actually, just by the wording of the new ToS, you comment would already be reportable, because you dared to tell me I was wrong. Thats criticism.

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"We saw concerns that, based on the examples of “expressions that compel a playing style” under “Nuisance behavior,” players may not be able to say anything at all or have any means of offering advice.

Getting to the point, there is no issue with offering advice; communication is an important aspect of participating in duties with other players.

The problem lies with attitudes such as “My opinion is absolute and anyone who doesn’t listen is wrong,” or behavior accompanied by arrogant, oppressive speech and conduct. Exchanging opinions is perfectly fine, as it’s only natural that those receiving the advice will have their own ideas and opinions."

"Example 1
Example of a violation:
"We can only beat [duty/content] by using [something]. You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"
Example of a non-violation:
"I think [duty/content] will go more smoothly if we do [something], so I want to try doing it this way, is that okay with everyone?""

It is not that hard to write something in a civilized manner and don't start to flame people. Giving advice and requesting doing things in different ways is still allowed as usual, just don't be a D.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Unless you word it politely or in a non confrontational manner. It's all about the tone, man. Always has been.

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My point is, the wording of the new ToS gives way too much power to people who either just dont want to learn or even just want to troll.

They literally only have to get a "Its not that hard, cmone..." out of someone to violate the new ToS. If someone is activly looking for ways to hurt others abusing those (and if you think noone would do it, spend 10 Minutes on Twitter), these new ToS are a big weapon in their hands.

I agree that people should be nice to each other, but simply not being allowed to openly tell someone that they keep fucking up despite multiple attempts to explain the mechainics, thats just crazy in a game where one person can make or break a run.
I wouldnt even be allowed to kick someone who just stands there autoattacking during an extreme Trial, because that would break the new ToS if we go by the wording of it.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

It is not that hard to write something in a civilized manner and don't start to flame people. Giving advice and requesting doing things in different ways is still allowed as usual, just don't be a D.

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Woop, and you are baned again. Thats was an Insult, and based on the new ToS, a banable offense.

Do you see the problem? The restrictions in the new ToS literally make everything but kissing everyones feet with every word you speak banable. Again, like I said before: I am not against encouraging polite behavior. But making every little bit of negative expression banable is not the way to do it.

You saying "It is not that hard" is far from harassment, but it is still something that falls under penatly in the new ToS. Do you see how easy it is to slip into punisheable territory here?

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

My point is, the wording of the new ToS gives way too much power to people who either just dont want to learn or even just want to troll.

They literally only have to get a "Its not that hard, cmone..." out of someone to violate the new ToS. If someone is activly looking for ways to hurt others abusing those (and if you think noone would do it, spend 10 Minutes on Twitter), these new ToS are a big weapon in their hands.

I agree that people should be nice to each other, but simply not being allowed to openly tell someone that they keep fucking up despite multiple attempts to explain the mechainics, thats just crazy in a game where one person can make or break a run.
I wouldnt even be allowed to kick someone who just stands there autoattacking during an extreme Trial, because that would break the new ToS if we go by the wording of it.



Woop, and you are baned again. Thats was an Insult, and based on the new ToS, a banable offense.

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You can kick people for that, it's the "afk" option btw. otherwise just disband and try again with a fresh group. If you use the pf it is your risk to get grouped up with players that might be way below your level of skill and that is alright cause they are obviously also entitled to playing the game even if they might really...well...if they aren't that skilled. If you want to get together with people on your skilllevel then don't use the PUBLIC PARTYFINDERTOOL. Just get together with friends you know are skilled or your hardcore raider fc or whatever.

People scream mostly about their roulette and forgetting why they get rewards for it in the first place, cause they help new and unskilled players through content they already themself finished in the past. It's not just to give you free exp, tomestones and gil. If you aren't ok with unskilled players then heck don't use the tool that is basically there to support unskilled players. And if you wanna get into new content with skilled players just invite only people who cleared UWU or UCOB or have savage gear from the recent expansion.

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

oop, and you are baned again. Thats was an Insult, and based on the new ToS, a banable offense.

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Yeah no, this here isn't ingame. I didn't called you a d. I said don't be one. There is a slight difference as you might notice. General not at you directed speech isn't a personal insult. There is a difference between "You are a dodo" and "Don't be a dodo".

Dont put anything in my mmouth I never said.

And unskilled player is not a bad player (the word you were afraid to use). A bad player is a player who lacks skills AND refuses to learn.

I spend alot of time explaining things to new players in Dungeons and raids. And yes, I do it polite even the second and third time around, if I see they actually try and fail, because I can see they tried.

The Bad players are those who have the "just shut up and carry me!" attitude. And we shouldnt have to disband the whole party just because of those players. Why do 7 people have to suffer when one is the problem?

I mean, forgive me, I grew up before the Twitter generation, I still learned that if someone messes up and refuses to learn, you are in your right to call them out on their refusal to learn.

Oh cool.
Good for you.
I guess.
Well, carry on then.

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Originally Posted by Raoul9753

Dont put anything in my mmouth I never said.

And unskilled player is not a bad player (the word you were afraid to use). A bad player is a player who lacks skills AND refuses to learn.

I spend alot of time explaining things to new players in Dungeons and raids. And yes, I do it polite even the second and third time around, if I see they actually try and fail, because I can see they tried.

The Bad players are those who have the "just shut up and carry me!" attitude. And we shouldnt have to disband the whole party just because of those players. Why do 7 people have to suffer when one is the problem?

I mean, forgive me, I grew up before the Twitter generation, I still learned that if someone messes up and refuses to learn, you are in your right to call them out on their refusal to learn.

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I mean i understand where you are coming from, i think most of it has to do with cultural differences. On the japanese datacenters it is normal to disband after like 2 wipes. While on NA (and sometimes EU) it's more common to just kick people and search replacements. But SE is going mostly after their culture and rules.

Just as a funfact they disband cause it's impolite to waste each others time, they don't flame or blame.

So only time will tell how much or less that will affect NA and EU, we will have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I mean i understand where you are coming from, i think most of it has to do with cultural differences. On the japanese datacenters it is normal to disband after like 2 wipes. While on NA (and sometimes EU) it's more common to just kick people and search replacements. But SE is going mostly after their culture and rules.

Just as a funfact they disband cause it's impolite to waste each others time, they don't flame or blame.

So only time will tell how much or less that will affect NA and EU, we will have to wait and see.

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Hmmm... I have to admit, that I failed to take the cultural aspect into consideration. Politeness, even in situations where honesty would be better called for, is one aspect that seems to be very dominant in japanese culture after all. I just hope they will also take other cultures into account when handing out punishments...

I guess you are also right when saying that only time will tell. I just hope the new ToS wont be abused. But lets wait and see, i guess thats really the best thing we can do.

I actually wonder who at se thought it was ok to apply japanese "vision" (where WE is more prominent than I) on western audience (where it's the exact opposite)

Gotta love how they went out of their way to clarify that nothing actually changed and a GM will always look at the context of a report before taking action but people are still going "omg trolls are gonna get us on technicalities and we'll all get banned if we talk!!"

Seemed pretty obvious from the example they gave that they just wanted people to not escalate things. If someone's having trouble with a mechanic for any reason, barking orders at them ain't gonna make a difference. Whether they're trolling or just struggling.
If you expained the mechanics and the person is ignoring the explanation, don't double down just move on. And if they're trolling report them. I'm pretty sure if you say "please don't stand in the aoe marker" and the person reply "lol, you don't pay my sub" they're in more trouble than you are.

"It doesn't affect me so it means it's fine UWU BEANS"

hey man i need some faults corrected too
which means golden rule - i need to tell others they are bad

To be fair if people read the 'Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV' article, they would have known that nothing changed in terms of communication-related matters, they merely added examples as to what constitutes a violation.

I'm not concerned by the update, ultimately they're there to prevent people from talking crap to others in game and I don't do that anyway. I guess maybe the only thing I will approach it with is "does anybody need to know the mechanics?" or on a wipe, "is anybody unclear on the mechanics we can help with?", which I often do anyway and something I see others do too, it gives an opportunity for somebody who is having problems to get help with it. If people aren't learning, have a poor attitude or aren't willing to engage.

I'm also the kind of player who actually likes to go in blind on stuff I am new to because I enjoy the experience of learning the mechanics. But I normally deal with that but ensure chat is turned off, but I'm also confident enough in my abilities for it to not be a detriment to the party.

However, I feel like this update just formalises what they already do and I think helps clear up some of the vagueness of their ToS interpretations we've been complaining are too vague for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

How exactly does a new player pull off learning to heal a dungeon by themselves? Not being snarky I just can't figure out how one would do it.

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They would start in the Hall of the Novice and learn the basics. They could also learn in Guildhests, which start at level 10, so they're in a way preparing them for dungeons. And Satasha is very low intensity and the difficulty gradually builds from there.

I've never been contacted by a GM in any game I have ever played actually. Top that. :cool:

Now the forums on here.. :(

...do we really need another tread about this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

They would start in the Hall of the Novice and learn the basics. They could also learn in Guildhests, which start at level 10, so they're in a way preparing them for dungeons. And Satasha is very low intensity and the difficulty gradually builds from there.

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Hall of novices yes but that is pretty scaled down compared to actual guildhests or Sastasha. GUildhests and Sastasha involve other people. Now if the distinction is being made between early dungeons with other people as opposed to learning before you EVER go into something with other people then that makes a degree of sense. The comment I was responding to made it seem like it was inappropriate to ever go into content with other people unless you already had learned.

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Originally Posted by Haseno

Don't worry though, I won't report you for it. Because i'm an actual adult.

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Evidence that you really aren't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Hall of novices yes but that is pretty scaled down compared to actual guildhests or Sastasha. GUildhests and Sastasha involve other people. Now if the distinction is being made between early dungeons with other people as opposed to learning before you EVER go into something with other people then that makes a degree of sense. The comment I was responding to made it seem like it was inappropriate to ever go into content with other people unless you already had learned.

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It is scaled down yes, but it covers the basic principle of being a healer. But I didn't read the same meaning into what you were quoting, I think "people are expected to learn by themselves first" is more learning without the input and tips and tricks from other people so you learn by doing, in which case Guildhests and early dungeons are good experience, rather than learning how to do a dungeon run before you get people into the mix, which it seems is how you might have read it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I mean i understand where you are coming from, i think most of it has to do with cultural differences. On the japanese datacenters it is normal to disband after like 2 wipes. While on NA (and sometimes EU) it's more common to just kick people and search replacements. But SE is going mostly after their culture and rules.

Just as a funfact they disband cause it's impolite to waste each others time, they don't flame or blame.

So only time will tell how much or less that will affect NA and EU, we will have to wait and see.

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They disband and don't flame each other, yes. Then they also put the problem players on a public blacklist and start shunning them behind their backs.

But hey, at least you don't see it coming.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

I actually wonder who at se thought it was ok to apply japanese "vision" (where WE is more prominent than I) on western audience (where it's the exact opposite)

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From what I’ve seen in game, plenty of people from the western audience are perfectly ok with it. There’s a reason why so many comment on the friendly vibes in FF14 and are happy to respond in a similar manner. I have a hard time concluding the ToS is ‘outrageously Japanese’, and I’m Dutch, home to the Brutally Blunt :D

Good. Enjoy the game!

Same for me. I'll still speak, share my opinions and give advices because I don't see others as enemies or pixels I have to carry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

"Example 1
Example of a violation:
"We can only beat [duty/content] by using [something]. You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"
Example of a non-violation:
"I think [duty/content] will go more smoothly if we do [something], so I want to try doing it this way, is that okay with everyone?""

It is not that hard to write something in a civilized manner and don't start to flame people. Giving advice and requesting doing things in different ways is still allowed as usual, just don't be a D.

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Thing is, the first statement is true, the second is a lie.
If you cannot pass without doing the mechanic, you cannot pass without doing the mechanic.
The second one does not express that information and thus fails to convey the needed information.

Precisely. Nothing changed. Beyond banning RMT advertising and the rules relating to stalking, there were zero changes made. People should stop talking about this like it's something new, things are the same as they were in 2019.

Safe travels!