Physics on Summoner is very weak, intended or just a bug?

Is there any good reason for Physics be attached to Mind instead of Intelligence for Summoners? If so, why then Red Mage has its Vercure attached to Intelligence and heals as much as Healer does?

Is there any information of that changing in the near future? (like Endwalker)

I also saw that Summoner is getting some new spells that heals, will they be attached to mind too?

There is no good reason and it probably isn’t going to change with endwalker because the devs are weirdly stubborn about it.

But their new cures will likely be based off INT.

Physick is attached to MND because of how Arcanist branches into SCH and SMN. If they put it as a SCH-only ability, it would have to be level 30+, meaning SCHs wouldn't have anything for healing in the pre-30 dungeons aside from their fairy. So it exists on SMN because it's necessary for low-level synced SCH to have it. It's attached to MND because otherwise SCH couldn't use it effectively and be unable to do their role. SMN can still use it because it's still an ACN ability. Physick being left on SMN is just an unfortunate result of these things, so I'd simply take it off the hotbar if I were you.

As for other healing abilities (Everlasting Flight, new Phoenix move) I imagine they're going to scale more properly to SMN, just like Second Wind does for melee, Curing Waltz does for DNC, Vercure does for RDM, etc.

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Originally Posted by Arakachi-Jiro

If so, why then Red Mage has its Vercure attached to Intelligence and heals as much as Healer does?

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The posts before mine have largely answered your question, but another thing to consider is that RDM is supposed to juggle white and black magic, so white magic stays relevant to its kit through to level cap.

Where as they decided the mages that start from 1 (Black Mage and Summoner) need a little sustainability help in the early levels before they really get their feet under them. BLM, like WHM, can equip shields. And SMN borrows a healing spell from its twin SCH.

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Originally Posted by Zeich

Physick is attached to MND because of how Arcanist branches into SCH and SMN. If they put it as a SCH-only ability, it would have to be level 30+, meaning SCHs wouldn't have anything for healing in the pre-30 dungeons aside from their fairy. So it exists on SMN because it's necessary for low-level synced SCH to have it. It's attached to MND because otherwise SCH couldn't use it effectively and be unable to do their role. SMN can still use it because it's still an ACN ability.

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This is actually no longer true. If you check the tooltips, Physick on Summoner is listed as a ACN/SMN spell, while Physick on Scholar is listed as just SCH. These are two entirely separate spells that just happen to share the same name. It's been this way since the start of Shadowbringers, I believe. SMN-Physick still scaling off mind is either an oversight or strange design choice, not a necessary evil like it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Riyshn

This is actually no longer true. If you check the tooltips, Physick on Summoner is listed as a ACN/SMN spell, while Physick on Scholar is listed as just SCH. These are two entirely separate spells that just happen to share the same name. It's been this way since the start of Shadowbringers, I believe. SMN-Physick still scaling off mind is either an oversight or strange design choice, not a necessary evil like it used to be.

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Huh, today I learned! I wasn't actually aware of that. Thanks for the info. o.o

Edit: Double interesting - even their Ruin is considered separate, prolly for upgrade paths to Broil? Then yes, weak Physick either needs to be removed or scaled properly.

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Originally Posted by Riyshn

This is actually no longer true. If you check the tooltips, Physick on Summoner is listed as a ACN/SMN spell, while Physick on Scholar is listed as just SCH. These are two entirely separate spells that just happen to share the same name. It's been this way since the start of Shadowbringers, I believe. SMN-Physick still scaling off mind is either an oversight or strange design choice, not a necessary evil like it used to be.

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And if you look at the SCH abilities, you also get ones like Whispering Dawn pre-30 that unlock with the job stone so it wouldn't need to be a level 30 spell.

While still not great at 50, Physick can be used still for about 10% of your HP. Maybe the stat squish will make it useful again so you aren't having that 5-600 HP cure from when you had 5-6k HP still be the same amount as when you have over 100k HP and becoming more .5% HP recovery.

Oh, don't get me started on lv30 SCH. You lose abilities by equiping the SCH job stone. Not even just ACN stuff being replaced - a Lv30 SCH actually has less buttons than a Lv30 ACN!

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Originally Posted by Zeich

Physick is attached to MND because of how Arcanist branches into SCH and SMN.

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Arcanist has nothing to do with it. Scholar and Summoner used to share many abilities, Bio, Ruin II, Energy Drain, etc. and they all scaled correctly.

Edit: lol, I see someone already replied to this. Yeah, anyway, the Arcanist link has always been a bit overhyped as a problem IMHO. It's been pretty obvious since Stormblood that the link between them isn't as problematic as it first appeared to be.

It's intended. Arcanist starts off with physick and then becomes either a scholar (healer) or a summoner (dps). It scales mostly off the mind stat which healers can stack but dps cannot, although a relatively small contribution is made by weapon damage and substats.

It's more useful at low levels where it can save a situation if the healer can't and it's also used by scholars, although not very often. A scholar is more likely to use one of their off-globals or an adlo unless they have used all of these up but that is rare.

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Originally Posted by Riyshn

This is actually no longer true. If you check the tooltips, Physick on Summoner is listed as a ACN/SMN spell, while Physick on Scholar is listed as just SCH. These are two entirely separate spells that just happen to share the same name. It's been this way since the start of Shadowbringers, I believe. SMN-Physick still scaling off mind is either an oversight or strange design choice, not a necessary evil like it used to be.

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Indeed. There is no reason why Summoner's Physick can't scale off Intelligence while Scholar's remains scaled off Mind when they are separate spells.

I'm genuinely curious if Yoshi-P is even aware of this issue. Serious question. I'm getting concerned at this point.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

Indeed. There is no reason why Summoner's Physick can't scale off Intelligence while Scholar's remains scaled off Mind when they are separate spells.

I'm genuinely curious if Yoshi-P is even aware of this issue. Serious question. I'm getting concerned at this point.

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From live letter 37:

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Originally Posted by Fazraye

Q: Red mage’s Vercure is affected by the intelligence attribute, but would it be possible to change summoner’s Physick so that the cure potency changes with intelligence?

A: Red mage was born from both white and black magic; however, summoner is different. Each of the jobs have their own roles. If all jobs were made equally, that would basically make every job the same. From a gaming perspective, I believe it would be more fun to have differences, so we carefully made adjustments so that the jobs do not become the same.

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They are aware, their reasoning is just not good reasoning. Physick has been discussed to death in the past and bizarrely there are people out there who defend the decision to keep it MND based.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...93#post4500993

To be fair, the whole Physick issue on SMN could easily be fixed if SMN would just get a trait/passive at lv30+ that influences it into scaling with INT, and maybe even turning into something like a high potency single target Heal on oGCD of either 60 or 120sec CD.

It took many expansions for SE to finally remove the useless Fluid Aura from WHM to combat skill bloats against a skill that no ones bother to put on their hotbars



Give them several more expansions and you will see Physick gone.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

From live letter 37:


They are aware, their reasoning is just not good reasoning. Physick has been discussed to death in the past and bizarrely there are people out there who defend the decision to keep it MND based.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...93#post4500993

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They removed Fluid Aura after nerfing it several times, so maybe they'll remove Physick someday if people keep complaining about it. That said, I do kinda agree with that reasoning, in a way. If smn could heal and raise just like rdm, they'd need to be hit with...what's it called? 'support tax' ? and I doubt most would be happy about that.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

It took many expansions for SE to finally remove the useless Fluid Aura from WHM to combat skill bloats against a skill that no ones bother to put on their hotbars



Give them several more expansions and you will see Physick gone.

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Which is funny because not only whm has the least bloat of all healers, but Aqua Veil is basically what Fluid Aura could've been turned/upgraded into, instead of "replaced" .... 71 levels later [Largesse/Temperance all over again huh?]

Not a doubt in my mind that smn mind physick isn't an obtuse piece of load bearing code at this point.

Like, if they delete it, you won't be able to access you glamour plates or limsa won't have water or something.

Alternatively, evolve physick to do the mediocre heal, but also a very minor shield (to make it “feel” in line with scholar)

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Alternatively, evolve physick to do the mediocre heal, but also a very minor shield (to make it “feel” in line with scholar)

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just turn it into there own version of Second wind basically make it lustrate lite

The odd thing is, during the recent live letter they said Resurrection survived the skill purge but not Physick. But Physick being removed would make more sense. It needs an adjustment, but the devs are oddly stubborn about certain things. They make some great decisions, but it's choices like this that just confuse the players.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

The odd thing is, during the recent live letter they said Resurrection survived the skill purge but not Physick. But Physick being removed would make more sense. It needs an adjustment, but the devs are oddly stubborn about certain things. They make some great decisions, but it's choices like this that just confuse the players.

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yeah all the old skills returning and being reworked was nice
steel peak,howling fist and i even saw Power surge icon of all things

please return brutal swing and Scourge thanks

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Originally Posted by Duskane

yeah all the old skills returning and being reworked was nice
steel peak,howling fist and i even saw Power surge icon of all things

please return brutal swing and Scourge thanks

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Oh? I saw Steel Peak and Howling Fist, but where was Power Surge? I didn't see it on DRG.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Not a doubt in my mind that smn mind physick isn't an obtuse piece of load bearing code at this point.

Like, if they delete it, you won't be able to access you glamour plates or limsa won't have water or something.

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This gave one of the best laughs I've had all day~

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Oh? I saw Steel Peak and Howling Fist, but where was Power Surge? I didn't see it on DRG.

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buff that activates on second part of your AOE combo
its called power surge and uses same icon

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

From live letter 37:

<quote>

They are aware, their reasoning is just not good reasoning.

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Really, that quote doesn't put it in a way that makes it certain they're aware of the issue.

The question asked is "can it be changed to scale on intelligence to be like RDM?"

The question that needs to be asked is "can it be changed to scale on intelligence so it heals for a useful amount and not the current 1% of our HP?"

I always figured they left Summoner with Physic so they could say it had a self heal. Effective or not.

This was 'fixed' a year or two ago. Yes, the spell did used to be from Arcanist, but not any more. The spell was seperated out and the potencies different. This is because SMN is not intended to have healing ability beyond that of any other DPS role (second wind on mnk for example)

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Originally Posted by Shori

This was 'fixed' a year or two ago. Yes, the spell did used to be from Arcanist, but not any more. The spell was seperated out and the potencies different. This is because SMN is not intended to have healing ability beyond that of any other DPS role (second wind on mnk for example)

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And yet in the old days (ARR pre-HW) Physick could heal quite well as SMN, as I still remember a Brayflox NM party I queued for as level 50 SMN back around 2013/2014 and, very quickly I realized if I was to have any chance of survival in this party I basically had to take over healing by spamming Physick with Ifrit-egi set on Stay as the actual healer in the party; a CNJ, was still very new and green and was sadly not very effective.

We somehow got through that run without disbanding (and I got all three commendations for it!), rather battered and bruised though, but it was doable. Alas now with the pegging of healing spells mostly to MND, it means SMN's Physick is guttered potency wise, so although I understand the reasons for the change, I miss the old style one where it could be a useful back up or last resort.

Intended to be bug ?

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Originally Posted by ItMe

This gave one of the best laughs I've had all day~

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That's actually why WoW's main backpack couldn't be upgraded for years. Because it was an integral part of your character's code, and removing or changing it broke all sorts of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Zeich

Physick is attached to MND because of how Arcanist branches into SCH and SMN. If they put it as a SCH-only ability, it would have to be level 30+, meaning SCHs wouldn't have anything for healing in the pre-30 dungeons aside from their fairy. So it exists on SMN because it's necessary for low-level synced SCH to have it. It's attached to MND because otherwise SCH couldn't use it effectively and be unable to do their role. SMN can still use it because it's still an ACN ability. Physick being left on SMN is just an unfortunate result of these things, so I'd simply take it off the hotbar if I were you.

As for other healing abilities (Everlasting Flight, new Phoenix move) I imagine they're going to scale more properly to SMN, just like Second Wind does for melee, Curing Waltz does for DNC, Vercure does for RDM, etc.

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Easiest solution is to change it via a trait at lvl 30. . .

But y'know, small indie company and all.

But.. it heals for a lot less than Second Wind, right? Feels like it was intended for up to level 30 and then they just sort of forgot about it.

With the new Manaward shield ability and Phoenix Excogitation, Summoner Physick being trash is less relevant. You would realistically only use Physick during downtime anyway.

I am fine with Red Mage being the only caster DPS with a respectable healing spell since that is part of the RDM lore identity as a white and black magic user. Giving that to BLM or SMN means that RDM becomes less special.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

With the new Manaward shield ability and Phoenix Excogitation, Summoner Physick being trash is less relevant. You would realistically only use Physick during downtime anyway.

I am fine with Red Mage being the only caster DPS with a respectable healing spell since that is part of the RDM lore identity as a white and black magic user. Giving that to BLM or SMN means that RDM becomes less special.

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I think the point is, if it's useless after lvl 30 then why does it exist on Summoner?

We've had 2 expansions of ability purges and somehow this terrible skill still exists? At that point reason would suspect they can't get rid of it for some reason they're not telling us.

It's just a relic from arcanist origin
it's not really 100% useless and they give summoner a full kit despite it being there so just don't set it or stick on a sidebar somewhere

Just don't ask for it to be removed because summoner res is an arcanist thing too ;o

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Originally Posted by Nihility

It's just a relic from arcanist origin
it's not really 100% useless and they give summoner a full kit despite it being there so just don't set it or stick on a sidebar somewhere

Just don't ask for it to be removed because summoner res is an arcanist thing too ;o

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I mean, scholar get memory lost and lose most of the arcanist kit when they become smarter (aka becoming a scholar), I don't know why Summoner can't lose one spell. Even if now, with second wind, bloodbath, the new reaper spell, the 2 phoenix heals, the dnc heal and the rdm, it makes way less sense to have a shitty heal, I'd rather have it be upgrade to the new smn phoenix heal or smth.

They could also just turn it into a Carbuncle ability when on SMN that heals, puts Regen on you or something. Since Carby is now the support summon they can just add Physics to its kit and make it a pet ability like the shield and damage buff.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And yet in the old days (ARR pre-HW) Physick could heal quite well as SMN, as I still remember a Brayflox NM party I queued for as level 50 SMN back around 2013/2014 and, very quickly I realized if I was to have any chance of survival in this party I basically had to take over healing by spamming Physick with Ifrit-egi set on Stay as the actual healer in the party; a CNJ, was still very new and green and was sadly not very effective.

We somehow got through that run without disbanding (and I got all three commendations for it!), rather battered and bruised though, but it was doable. Alas now with the pegging of healing spells mostly to MND, it means SMN's Physick is guttered potency wise, so although I understand the reasons for the change, I miss the old style one where it could be a useful back up or last resort.

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This is still true. In low level dungeons, when the difference between the mind stat on SCH and SMN is minimal, physick still is a decently potent healing skill. It just fades over time as HP pools rise, damage increases, and SMN only gets gear with intelligence on it. (low level casting gear is for both DPS and healers, and so has mind and intelligence both)

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Originally Posted by Imakun

They could also just turn it into a Carbuncle ability when on SMN that heals, puts Regen on you or something. Since Carby is now the support summon they can just add Physics to its kit and make it a pet ability like the shield and damage buff.

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So...... Selene? You literally just described the way the old fairies worked.

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Originally Posted by Imora

That's actually why WoW's main backpack couldn't be upgraded for years. Because it was an integral part of your character's code, and removing or changing it broke all sorts of stuff.

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Oh man that's hilarious~

What if it really is a lode bearing skill...
If they remove it SCH just gets wiped out~

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Oh man that's hilarious~

What if it really is a lode bearing skill...
If they remove it SCH just gets wiped out~

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At this point I think Resurrection is the lode bearing skill. Which in all honesty makes the most sense out of any of the skills that could act as the link between the two.