Scholar wants for a clearly defined job identity. Its capstone abilities from each expansion feel disconnected or even antithetical to one another, and its lack of connection to the Scholars of titles past leaves it with little in the way of a unique flavor apart from "barriers" and "fairy". Part of this lack is due to its origin as a bifurcation of the Arcanist class, but now that Summoner has grown beyond its humble beginnings, there's little reason why Scholar can't do so as well.
Scholar's abilities should be built around its lore. Scholar is a battlefield tactician who has forged a partnership with an otherworldly arcane entity. Scholar's healing and damage are two sides of the same coin - restoring, stabilizing, and disrupting aether within the bodies of their targets. Scholar cedes Ruin to Summoner entirely and begins with Broil instead.
Instead of casting Summon Eos or Summon Selene, the Scholar casts Summon Fairy, which is in Dawn phase by default. This results in summoning Eos at level four.
Dancer's Closed Position and Curing Waltz abilities demonstrate that it is possible for an ability to be executed by the Scholar with its area centered on another entity, performed with no delay. The Scholar executes Whisper, and the fairy does nothing, but Whispering Dawn's area of effect is centered on the fairy. If this means sacrificing the fairy's Whispering Dawn cast animation, then so be it. In Dusk phase, Whisper executes Whispering Dusk.
Since abilities can now have a Scholar affinity without affecting Summoner, the Scholar gains Succor at level 10; if necessary, the Galvanize barrier can come later via a trait.
Scholar's basic mechanic can continue in the same vein as the original Aetherflow, but we can look to the series history to know that Scholar's archetypical ability is Libra. With Libra, the Scholar examines the battlefield and devises tactics on the fly. These tactical maneuvers are represented by the erstwhile Aetherflow charges, now Strategems. The Aetherflow Gauge is now the Strategem Gauge.
If Scholar must wait for a trait to add Galvanize to Succor, it comes when the Scholar learns Adloquium.
In lieu of Ruin II, Scholar now has Pain, which can now only be cast once every 30s. With the reduction in cast time for healing spells in Endwalker, the instant cast spell is less necessary for weaving. This allows Pain to have a higher potency and potentially to inflict a damage over time effect.
The Fairy Gauge is now unlocked along with Illuminate. Illuminate creates an area of effect around the fairy that grants Morning Illumination with a Fairy Gauge cost of 10. In the same way that Whisper now takes effect instantaneously, so does Illuminate. Extinguish ends the effect in the same way Dissolve Union ends Aetherpact. In Dusk phase, Illuminate executes Evening Illumination.
Lancet is a reimagining of Scholar's version of Energy Drain. Lancet is already a historical Final Fantasy series ability that does much the same thing, and it is also the name of a surgical implement - apropos for a Healer. Lancet also contributes twice as much to the Fairy Gauge as other Strategems. This adds some strategy to deciding whether to use a Strategem for healing in the short term or to contribute more to the Fairy Gauge for a long term investment.
Deployment Tactics, like Emergency Tactics, is now a buff applied to the Scholar, which extends the next Galvanize effect they apply with Adloquium. This results in the shields extending instantaneously upon taking effect.
In lieu of Dissipation, Scholar now has Coalescence, which can stack up to three charges. This grants an additional Stratagem to the Scholar by drawing energy from the fairy. This causes the fairy to enter Dusk phase and become Selene for 10 seconds per charge executed. While in Dusk phase, potencies for all fairy abilities are halved.
Bestow executes the effect of Fey Blessing, Fey Inspiration (in Dusk phase), or Consolation (in Day phase), centered on the fairy. Recast timer for Bestow resets when the fairy enters or exits Day phase and has a second charge while in Day phase.
Exalt causes the fairy to enter Day phase and become Seraph for 30s.
HTML Code:Level Ability Type Cast Recast
1 Broil Spell 1.5s 2.5s
2 Bio Spell Instant 2.5s
3 Physick Spell 1.5s 2.5s
4 Summon Fairy Spell 2.5s 2.5s
10 Succor Spell 2s 2.5s
12 Resurrection Spell 8s 2.5s
15 Whisper Ability Instant 60s
26 Bio II Spell Instant 2.5s
30 Libra Ability Instant 60s
30 Lustrate Ability Instant 1s
35 Adloquium Spell 1.5s 2.5s
38 Pain Spell Instant 30s
40 Illuminate Ability Instant 3s
40 Extinguish Ability Instant 1s
45 Lancet Ability Instant 3s
46 Art of War Spell Instant 2.5s
50 Sacred Soil Ability Instant 30s
52 Indomitability Ability Instant 30s
54 Broil II Spell 1.5s 2.5s
56 Deployment Tactics Ability Instant 120s
58 Emergency Tactics Ability Instant 15s
60 Coalescence Ability Instant 10s
62 Excogitation Ability Instant 30s
64 Broil III Spell 1.5s 2.5s
66 Chain Strategem Ability Instant 120s
70 Aetherpact Ability Instant 3s
70 Dissolve Union Ability Instant 1s
72 Biolysis Spell Instant 2.5s
72 Broil IV Spell 1.5s 2.5s
74 Recitation Ability Instant 60s
76 Bestow Ability Instant 60s
80 Exalt Ability Instant 120s
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10-04-2021, 05:06 AMGoldenVesper[Unapproved Post][240 PB Requested]
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10-04-2021, 05:46 AMFoxCh40s
Or they'll just do nothing, cause they've stated they have no damn clue what to do with it, pretty much stated they can't really be bothered; they hyped up changes and fixes to the fairy, when it worked perfectly at the end of Stormblood, only for them to fuck it up again in Shadowbringers, doing a massive rework exactly NO ONE ASKED FOR NOR WANTED, removed energy drain in stormblood, gave it back, removed it AGAIN in Shadowbringers and gave it back AGAIN.
They don't care about Healers, it's been shown time and time and time and time and time again. Healers exist purely for Tank and Dps to subsist in the game so that there is the illusion of difficulty for them.
They don't care, I repeat. They. Do. Not. Care. -
10-04-2021, 06:22 AMToodlesElNoodles
So if summarized correctly…
1) Summon Selene removed. Only Summon Eos, but renamed Summon Fairy
2) Fairy abilities are ogcds/no animations (technically)
3) Day is just regular Eos. Dusk is gimped Eos.
4) Medica 1 at lvl 10, then upgrade it to Succor at lvl 30. (SCH has been pretty much separated from ACN since ShB started. They only share Resurrection)
5) Ruin 2 is now an instacast DoT.
6) Aetherflow is renamed to Stratagem…and that’s all I really picked up. Not quite sure what Libra would do.
8) Deployment Tactics for fatter shield.
9) Dissiption gives 1 Aetherflow and gimps the fairy for 10 sec, can be used up to 3 times based off charges.
10) Summon Seraph just summons Eos+.
My question: what happens when you cast Coalescence after using Exalt? -
10-04-2021, 07:07 AMPaulH^^ You know this has really resonated with me from what we had to this it is quite gutting and you have just woken me up.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
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10-04-2021, 04:21 PMTruenI agree. They don't care; they're literally have the worst PR team I've ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
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10-04-2021, 10:48 PMVictoriaLuv
lol play sage
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10-05-2021, 01:07 AMAnhra
Scholars new Job identity is being the only Job not having one, if you dont like rolling with it, maybe you might consider WALKING with it in Endwalker.
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10-05-2021, 04:07 AMYhisa
In all honesty legit nothing....and I mean it
Scholar is the "problematic" child of ffxiv and the reason why? Is because they are the jealous type and feel threatened with any new healer put into the game
I remember back in ARR days where legit every scholar threatened to quit the game just because they felt threatened over the "new" astrologian job, and that it looks more "flashy"
So legit most of them tried the new healer and done theorycraft and what not, as soon they found out AST wasn't that great, they all jump ship back to SCH and base AST hard calling it a useless healer because it have weaker heals/shields/and buffs not that great
Now scholar is the king when it comes to being a support partner and always have been for an eternity , AST tried to knock it off its throne and couldn't do it, Eventually AST started to replace WHM instead
Now in 6.0 sage is coming....and suprise suprise SCH mains is acting out again, any "new' flashy heal or reading legit 1 tooltip SCH is the first to cry wolf and always have
I remember the massive backlash about AST shields because the tooltip was leaked, SCH mains bashed it sooo hard, but what they didn't know is....AST shield did NOT apply CRIT bonus shield like the scholar does
Scholar will be fine, and most likely be used for "prog" like whitemage is used for "prog"
AST and Scholar will be most likely be used for speed runs As per usual, and fyi the movement speed buff scholar gives, also applies a damage reduction (which people forgot)
Now with sage...it's just a DPS healers that does some shields, and damage reduction and healing, it doesn't really do anything else for the raid
So I give it a month after the 17th November, and I garentee Sage will be the worst healer, once meta's start forming
(the same happened in HW with AST that legit no one wanted it, which the meta was formed as WHM/SCH)
Then stormblood game which it evolved....it became AST/SCH for its potent raid DPS boost -
10-05-2021, 04:41 AMAnnihilism
"Deployment Tactics, like Emergency Tactics, is now a buff applied to the Scholar, which extends the next Galvanize effect they apply with Adloquium. This results in the shields extending instantaneously upon taking effect."
Stop. I can only get so erect. No but seriously little changes like this would show they are actualy listening to us, but i am not going to wait 3 patches to see those adjustments, SGE main it is. -
10-05-2021, 04:57 AMFoxCh40sNah, that's not the case, the reason it got nerfed (Scholar) is because of jealous people who didn't understand the class and how it worked at all. With proper application of skill, and good Scholar was worth more than a good white Mage and astro combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Scholar was good because the game was tailored to favor it with encounter design. It was the single most well designed job besides Warrior in the HW and ARR days. It was literal perfection, and people couldn't handle that notion. So everytime we got overgeared to hell, people started complaining that Scholar was OP, when they forgot that early leveling Scholar was much harder than White Mage and Astro due to lack of options.
Scholar had the inability (beyond an exceptionally exceptional Scholar) to handle a large amount of mistakes and excessive burst healing requirements. Succor has always been weak, and so has Adlo. The only thing that people complained about was an occasional crit that would nullify every kind of healing requirement, and could be used to super cheese mechanics.
What they don't realize, is in order to make effective use of that, Scholar had to use vast amounts of MP fishing for Crits on a Warrior to do so, which quite frankly was never garunteed.
Scholar being in the state it is now is due to the fact of a vast majority of big ol cry babies not being able to handle a superiorly designed job and a clear and unique class advantage.
The reason why the game is in the state it is now is because of these exact complaints. That people were jealous of another Job's capabilities, regardless of job, and refusing to go play that job and understand it otherwise.
Tldr, people wine a lot, and really don't understand the game. -
10-05-2021, 05:29 AMSemirhage
Yeah Scholar was never OP. It merely warped the entire healer metagame around itself and was superior to the other two combined! Oh how maligned the poor Scholar of eld was. Now the darn dirty Stormblood and Shadowbringers changes destroyed its birthright throne and took it from its rightful place of being better than everyone else.
Sometimes when I'm angry about the awful treatment healers get, I look at Scholars raging that they're not the unquestioned stars of the show by divine right anymore with the other two fighting over the sidekick slot and think... it's not just the devs that have learned all the wrong lessons from the last two expansions. -
10-05-2021, 05:50 AMFoxCh40sThis is the exact sentiment that got us where we are. Myself and other Scholars advocated for balance and superior job design for all the other healers. We wanted everyone brought up to Scholars enjoyment level, not everyone being brought down to White Mages bare bones play style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
We could have cared less about damage, numbers, healing, all of that was irrelevant. We enjoyed how the job was SOOOO satisfying to play. Managing cooldowns, dots, planning efficient timing and use of abilities. Spot healing for our other co-healers.
A Scholar's ultimate class fantasy was being of use, being a pure tactical assistant to an otherwise all powerful co healer. We made up for the other healers weaknesses, and they made up for ours. Pure synergy between the other jobs was absolute euphoria.
But because people refused to understand WHAT made Scholar so good (i.e. an incredibly invested, well knowledged player base for the job) they have cut it off at the knees, and now enjoy watching the entire role suffer, just to have petty satisfaction that a job that was "OP" was nerfed. -
10-05-2021, 07:58 AMRoeshelWasn't Selene deleted because she was useless? Where is the fun of being useless?Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
I don't see a lot of people playing old Scholar if they had to put twice as much effort to be on par with everyone else because right now this is true to some extent and people don't like that.
If I played FFXIV in previous expansions I would have mained Scholar without a second thought because they were better than anyone in anything and not so much because of the gameplay itself. -
10-05-2021, 08:06 AMFoxCh40sSelene was the more useful near the end of expansions when we didn't need the extra healing potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roeshel
She was never useless. Her AoE cleanse added later was fantastic, and the Fae Wind buff made a noticeable difference in speed of clears. They decided to remove Selene because they do not understand how Scholar works.
Who said we had to put twice as much effort in? Where was that said? -
10-05-2021, 08:14 AMRoeshelWell, because when you compare old Scholar to old White mage you will see that Scholar has more going on than White mage which means that they have to put more effort into playing optimally than a WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
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10-05-2021, 08:27 AMKDSilver
Yeah... I don't understand how they could have design old scholar the way it was and yet not understanding what's going on now.
Was it pure luck? -
10-05-2021, 08:27 AMVictoriaLuv
again.. lmao play sage scholar is dead
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10-05-2021, 08:36 AMFoxCh40sBecause original White Mage was straight forward. Aero instant cast, Aero 2 hard cast, Aero 3 hard cast, Stone -> Reapply dots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roeshel
Roeshel, can you please refrain from replying with sparky comments on things you weren't around for? It just makes you look, severely misinformed is the polite term I will use.
You have no clue what it was like to play back then, be quiet and let the FF14 "Adults" talk. -
10-05-2021, 08:58 AMRoeshelRaid-buffs are useless when you lose DPS with each GCD cast. If WHM had AST's oGCD healing and movement they would have been dealing more damage than them even though they have no raid-wide buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Sage does have similar oGCD as Scholar. The AE stacks abilities do almost the exact same thing as Sage's resource abilities and then Sage has 3 additional raid-wide oGCDs heal that consume no resource and another GCD attack with neutral DPS gain/loss with healing 400 potency and 10% damage reduction. That's their second AoE oGCD with mitigation.
For ST healing, Sage's fairy is cardia which heals twice as much with 2.5 GCD recast time. Soteria is their version of Fey union which is better all round. It is instant and it is strong. Instead of Excog they have 10% damage reduction Lustrate on 45s and for Lustrate they have Lustrate.
Sage also has cubic barrier on 120 cd that consumes no resource and an AoE version of the cube ability. Both oGCDs have stacks that turn into pure heal once the time runs out.
Sage is better than Scholar, there is should be no doubt about that. Chain stratagem and summon Seraph are the only abilities that Scholar doesn't share with Sage. Once the shield of Sage's Aldo is broken they get an Adder's sting charge. Once the shield of Scholer's aldo is broken they get nothing.
They are also some abilities missing so there could be even more to Sage's OP-ness. -
10-05-2021, 09:19 AMty_taurusPlaystyle and job design aside, the one thing we definitely can't say with certainty at this time is performance. We have no idea what costs and cooldowns have changed, if any, and it's entirely possible that there could be a far more significant change to SCH than the live letter's anemic slides would lead us to believe. Keep in mind they said nothing about Sacred Soil getting a regen during the ShB live letter, and that turned out to be a game-changing heal. There are some clear advantages Sage has at this time in theory, but we really don't know much about EW Scholar outside of the fact that it's core design problems aren't being addressed. One of the very few things they did specify though is that they did improve SCH's barrier potential in some fashion, whatever that means. It's entirely possible that they could have something to contend with the value of Adder's Sting/Serpent's Fang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roeshel
I wanna be clear that I'm not defending SCH's playstyle in any capacity--though despite being gutted going into Shadowbringers, it still ended up being a substantially important healer for raiding. Watch it still be the best or second-best healer despite being a design disaster. -
10-05-2021, 12:34 PMGoldenVesper3) Dawn is Eos, Day is Seraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles
6) The Aetherflow Gauge is renamed the Strategem gauge, and Libra is essentially a reskinned Aetherflow that better fits the Scholar's theme and job flavor. It still restores MP and grants a full stack of Stratagems.
As for Coalescence during Day Phase, that's a great question. The abilities should do a better job of synergizing with each other, so Coalescence during Day Phase should return the fairy to Dawn Phase and grant a full stack of Stratagems. That way, if you plan it properly, you can get more Stratagems from "eating" Seraph before she leaves.
Another possibility – a trait that allows Deployment Tactics to grant an instant Bane effect to Biolysis. They can even use the old Bane animation, since Summoner doesn't do DoTs anymore. -
10-05-2021, 01:45 PMGemina
I'm not going to go as far as putting in the time and effort to come up with an abilities list. That is actually really difficult to do because it is so easy to break the job. I just know that I've grown tired of feeling like I'm getting dirt kicked in my face when it comes to this job. It's SE's poster job in the sense that it is the poster in their basement that has had so may darts thrown at it that you can no longer make out the image.
As far as what to do with it. Rework it. Completely. They can even lose that joke of a new movement skill. I am even more jealous of the really pretty shield RDMs got. Even if SCH got just that it would have been better than what we did get.
How Lily is addressed would be interesting because I think the current mechanic with SCH fairy can no longer continue. The job gauge and Lily's behaviour has to completely change. How they go about that, I do not know. I know that some constraints to her skills are caused by her being in the middle of casting Embrace, and having to follow the SCH if she is not placed; so bye bye auto Embrace. However, Place [the ability] by itself is an interesting aspect to SCH that has a very 'tactical' feel to it. I don't know. I'm willing to lose it in favor of more fluid gameplay and synergy between SCH and fairy. -
10-05-2021, 05:12 PMRoeshelAnd what was Scholar like?Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
Miasma - Bio II - Swiftcast - Shadowflare - Bio - Aero - Broil -> Reapply dots
I don't see a lot of difference. Healer's always played like "bare-bones WHM" when it came to dealing damage. The only difference between Scholar and White mage is that WHM had to hard cast their healing spells while Scholar had a fairy that was doing all the healing for them and they could command it while casting Broil. In Shb all healers still deal damage in the same manner. The difference in healing methods still persists to a degree but this time around things are actually balanced. -
10-05-2021, 05:18 PMFoxCh40sBio II - Miasma - Swiftcast - Shadowflare - Bio - Aero - Broil - Lustrate - Succor party before raid wide hits - manually direct Eos to heal someone who got hit harder - Wait for it - Fey Illummination/Bio II - Bio/ Whispering Dawn - Virus/Sacred Soil - Aero/Manual Embrace Target - Broil - Broil - Broil - etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roeshel
Way more complicated than now, I assure you. The fact that we can no longer simultaneously active fairy abilities with other abilities kills the complexity further right there. -
10-05-2021, 05:40 PMTruen
Start and end with adding more dps abilities beyond the pressing of ONE FREAKING BUTTON 10k times a week.
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10-05-2021, 07:24 PMYhisa
Sigh ...healers are not boring
The problem is, we learn too quickly, or read a guide to use our "ogcd" for certain mechanics in a boss fight, which ultimately turns healer boring in the fight "overtime"
When we all do a "blind" run we on our toes and have no idea what's going on, and have more healing to do, more raises, questioning which "ogcd" to use next, so we do this raid consently back to back for a few hours...
After a few hours or days, BOTH healers will now know where to use their "ogcd" healing within the fight, which ultimately makes the healing job super boring because u lay down a "guide" for yourself within the fight to press X ability for Y mechanic, and continue to spam (broil/glare/malafic) consently, and press 1 dot every 30seconds
People have been screaming to add more "buttons" to the jobs which is the wrong thing to do...there is zero difference pressing 111112111112 (casts and 1dot) to 123123123123(combo) it's still boring even if u add two more combos on a spell
If people want to make healers "fun" we should "gut" the "ogcd" side of healing , we have far too many "ogcd" healing that it pushes us into a turret mode, pressing a single button to heal a mechanic whilst blasting out the same skill over and over again
But reality is, there isn't much you can do to make healing more fun, base on how the game is played, it's all scripted mechanics which makes the healing role boring to play, unless they decide to make fights entirely "random" the healing job will remain boring
Scripted fights causes healers to place an ability when a certain mechanic is happening, so they have all their cooldowns planned out for the entire fight, now if the entire fight was "random" the healers would need to be "active" instead of sticking to their "plan" sheet, which forces a more fun playstyle for the healer because it's no longer "predictable" with what's going to happen next
The healer job problem is how "predictable" fights are in the game, unless they break this problem, healers will forever be stuck in this cycle until they break the "predictable" fight mechanics (which will never happen since it's FFXIV whole battle system) -
10-05-2021, 07:47 PMYhisaIt wasn't that hard tbh in ARR timesQuote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
U press a single button to apply a set of "dots" which u reverted back to using "ruin" spam whilst "reapplying" a dot back to its duration which was every 18seconds
So it would have been like this in ARR times
Cleric stance ON
Bio ll > Bio l > Miasma> Aero > Ruin spam for 15seconds > start to reapply all dots back to 18seconds > back to ruin spam for 15 seconds
Scholar was the only healer who could permanently stay in cleric stance
And press these skills between them since these was all "ogcd"
Shadowflare or sacred soil (can't have both)
rouse / whispering dawn/ energy drain/ aetherpact / fey illumination / fey dust/ fey whisper
Everything else was no different then it is today, shadowflare was unique because u could NOT use shadowflare and sacred soil at the same time because it removed the other
The only thing that was different from now and then was....scholar had way more control over their fairy, by using "rouse" to boost its healing ability and can "manually" select embrace to players (was not a good thing) so scholars most of the time was micromanaging their fairy more back then rather then what they do now
Do I miss ARR scholar? Nope
Do I want ARR scholar back? Nope
It was not fun to play ARR scholar it was VERY annoying to play trying to maintain dots in fights, whilst near double weaving spells between gcds, and if the boss became immune or did a "jump" majority of Ur potency was lost because of "dots"......and this is without all the cleric stance which if u press that at the wrong time....Ur screwed cause u couldn't heal -
10-05-2021, 09:39 PMLiam_HarperAm I reading this correctly... Healers are fine, it's our fault for not playing them badly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Also I'll never understand the obsession with removing oGCDs. They're still buttons you have to press. All you do by removing them is slowing down the gameplay and instead of (example) alternating between Star, CU, CO and Horoscope for raidwides, we just press AspHelios every time damage happens, and continue spamming 1. -
10-05-2021, 10:52 PMGeminaThey're not broken if that's what being insinuated here. I can get behind arguments that talk about healing becoming less and less engaging as they progress through content. Players get stronger and learn mechs, and as they do, the need for heals decreases. This is what leads to the less than stellar healer DPS rotation - if you can even call it that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
When arguments start to take the direction of healers shouldn't be standing around doing nothing, and pining for the return of 3.x gameplay is when I hop off of the ship. I say that because it is actually really rare to encounter a healer standing around doing nothing but healing, and even less so in high-end content; and as for 3.x gameplay, it needs to be let go. It's not returning.
Does this mean that healers have to stick to such a simple rotation? I don't necessarily think it does, but I also think just giving us more DPS buttons to push is just going to split up the potency of our ST and AoE between all skills given. You won't be causing more damage, just have more ways to screw it up. I feel that the way to make healing interesting is through interactive job gauges, and reward the healer with offensive abilities when they do things correctly.
I think we should be looking forward, not backwards. -
10-06-2021, 12:56 AMHurricanhey, we don't do that hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Be ready to be told you're "severely misinformed" by our scholar queen FoxCh40, whose endless bitching and whining has granted succor to her faithful followers in these trying times.
The glory days and the sovereignty of scholar back to heavensward should never be questioned. -
10-06-2021, 01:10 AMAFuzzyMu11inThat’s so disgustingly boring/long to learn no wonder I didn’t play sch back then Jesus. So much button bloatQuote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
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10-06-2021, 01:23 AMHurricanwhat a spectacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
Crying baby is crying about crying babies -
10-06-2021, 01:35 AMDoraganTo be honest, I agree this was a lot of DPS actions back in the day, but here's the thing: you were always free to completely ignore them. If you weren't doing any hard content, you could just smash that broil&subscribe button like we have now and it wouldn't matter. Just spread the dots with bane and save MP or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
Now, it's just broil, and now, it's just boring for everybody involved.
While I think HW went a bit too far in the number of DPS actions available, personally, I think SB was a pretty good middleground. ShB, unfortunately, broke the fairy management and gutted the DPS to the bare minimum. I think it's a real shame, because we finally got Recitation with this expansion. -
10-06-2021, 02:25 AMty_taurusFirst of all, it's illogical to place the blame on the player base for "learning too quickly." That's like saying "Want the job to be more fun? Just stop being good at it." Meanwhile plenty of other jobs retain a lot of engagement factors in all forms of content. It's not fair that healers are designed to be boring once learned unless pushed to the brink in the finite amount of high end duties the game has to offer. This is especially true because playing DPS jobs effectively requires lots of practice to familiarize yourself with the nuances of their gameplay. The point of a game is to always be fun, not only be fun the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
It really boils my blood that the people who are arguing against the "more buttons" argument assume that the only possible way that more DPS buttons could possibly be introduced is through a 123 combo when almost no one is asking for that. 95% of us that ask for more gameplay variety don't want that either. You're either not actually reading what anyone proposes or asks for, or you can't actually understand anything anyone has proposed on here and simply write it off as a 123 combo despite being hilariously inaccurate in that assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
That's a valid point regarding OGCD healing, but the problem is that once we burn down to GCD healing, our actions don't really have any depth to them either. There's very little cohesiveness to be found in those actions alone, and a lot of the more intricate elements of healing comes from those OGCD heals. We could just throw them onto the GCD, but your old Cure, Cure II, Medica, and other standardize heals really just need to be modernized a bit. The Afflatus spells from WHM are a better example of what I mean, but those also aren't perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
I don't feel like ARR Scholar was the pinnacle of engaging design necessarily, but I think you're being a bit unfair with this assessment. First and foremost, having multiple DoTs with different timers means you need to actively pay attention to those timers so that you can reapply them as they fall off which did require quite a lot more focus than with what we have today. Remember that SCH didn't have Indomitability back then, nor did they have Fey Blessing or Emergency Tactics, so you really did need to think about party HP proactively or you'd be suck Succoring up the party up in some cases, and that's a very inefficient way to get the party back up to speed. There's obviously a lot of nuance here: (Can I afford to let the faerie heal everyone more slowly? What mechanics are coming up next?) It wasn't as cut-and-dry as you're making it out to be, especially since fights back then were noticeably less scripted in places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Wait, why was manual Embrace a bad thing? It's not like you were required to play that way if it was too stressful to you. I don't really understand why we needed to take that away when it was always simply an option for players that wanted to go the extra mile. It certainly wasn't a requirement for you to do to clear content. It makes no sense to me why we would blatantly remove a quality of life option when it was never a necessity to begin with. It's like when Pokemon forced players to use the EXP Share (All) in Sword and Shield. Why? What benefit to you get from taking away a player's choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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10-06-2021, 03:46 AMPyitoechito
I don't think Scholar needs much at all to break the healer monotony.
Looking at AST as an example, the card system actually makes the job engaging even though it just has one filler GCD and a DoT. I generally have an enjoyable time juggling the cards with watching healing and keeping the GCD running. The cards also feel rewarding to throw around.
Just adding a second DoT for SCH to manage (as many have already suggested) could easily be enough to make SCH more engaging. Miasma III with a 1.5s cast and a 21~24s DoT so SCH has to juggle two DoTs on different durations. As a bonus, lower the potency of Art of War and toss in Bane (or make the Miasma line targeted AoEs with scaling to save space). As a double bonus, make a single-target version of Miasma II as an in-between for the Miasma line so the weird jump from I to III goes away (and switch Biolysis for the way prettier Bio III, too).
https://i.imgur.com/xMj1gJ9.gif
So pretty...
I wanted to suggest adding an instant GCD with charges for WHM's monotony break, but they already did that for SGE. Phlegma II for SGE is a 2-charge, 45s instant melee-range AoE GCD. Maybe exchange Cure III for a mini-targeted-Assize on charges; hits target and nearby enemies for (scaling) damage while also healing allies near target a little bit (small-ish radius).
Just adding some additional cooldowns/DoTs to keep an eye on can make the jobs more engaging, at least on some level. -
10-06-2021, 05:55 AMRinaB
'What to do with SCH'
Nothing, go play sage. Not sure who is worse, DRK mains from hws or SCH players. If they cared about class identity they would have focused on them a lot more over the last 2 xpacs. They want to make healers and tanks face roll and that's why i won't play them anymore. -
10-06-2021, 06:15 AMVideraSCH is the red-headed stepchild of classes now. Such a sad fall from grace.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinaB