Healer Queues are going to be different?

Did I understand it correctly?
On the last live letter they said that they were "planing to create a different type of queue for healers, so that the healing composition was always made out of a pure healer and a shield healer (in raids and trials)

If I understood this correctly. What are you guys thoughts on that? Since most people will be very excited to play sage and it probably will be the most seen at the start of the upcoming expansion.

To be honest? If people are excited to play Sage and it creates a problem for a lack of Pure Healers, that would be great. It means SE made a mistake and haven't given the "pure healers" enough attention to make them interesting enough for people to play and adjustments might actually be made. Otherwise... meh? It doesn't really hurt or harm. It just irks me that they are forcing this dichotomy in the game when there could be more diversity on all the healers. Variety is the spice of life, as the saying goes after all. And healers are lacking a lot of spice right now... aside from Sage.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

To be honest? If people are excited to play Sage and it creates a problem for a lack of Pure Healers, that would be great. It means SE made a mistake and haven't given the "pure healers" enough attention to make them interesting enough for people to play and adjustments might actually be made. Otherwise... meh? It doesn't really hurt or harm. It just irks me that they are forcing this dichotomy in the game when there could be more diversity on all the healers. Variety is the spice of life, as the saying goes after all. And healers are lacking a lot of spice right now... aside from Sage.

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Agree with all of this!
Also find it personally ridiculous, specially in a pve game to give up creativity (which equals fun) for "balance". I say that because that seems to be their excuse for the apocalyptic homogenization we are having...

I just hope this isn't applied to the MSQ dungeons (Castrum Meridian and Praetorium)

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Originally Posted by LanFangHua

Agree with all of this!
Also find it personally ridiculous, specially in a pve game to give up creativity (which equals fun) for "balance". I say that because that seems to be their excuse for the apocalyptic homogenization we are having...

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SE just seem to have some strange priorities.

Making Aetherflow clunky and often irritating to use in casual content such as dungeons for the sake of stopping savage raiders wait a minute between pulls? k =(

I think it's ridiculous.

No MSQ, Normal mode or even EX content requires a Shield healer and Pure healer. Even all of Savage can be cleared with Diurnal + WHM. I have no reason to believe this will change in Endwalker, especially now we've seen that Sage has a huge pool of Pure heals and they aren't turning Shield into a separate playstyle at all. All this does is reinforce bad mindsets in the playerbase, like the current "must go Noct with a WHM" nonsense.

I expect AST+WHM or SGE+SCH to be perfectly viable in the majority of content and the majority of the playerbase to firmly believe that you cannot use those comps, because SE has almost stated that officially now.

It's so obvious none of the designers play healer.

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Originally Posted by LanFangHua

Did I understand it correctly?
On the last live letter they said that they were "planing to create a different type of queue for healers, so that the healing composition was always made out of a pure healer and a shield healer (in raids and trials)

If I understood this correctly. What are you guys thoughts on that? Since most people will be very excited to play sage and it probably will be the most seen at the start of the upcoming expansion.

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I welcome the change.

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As far as systems design goes, I imagine it will be a soft requirement - if only shield healers or only pure healers are available, it'll probably match them together anyways after a time.

With all that said, I'm not worried about sages flooding the queues. I think one thing bears in mind - White Mage is always massively, massively popular, even when it gets the crap end of the meta stick (which is pretty much always). This is even what leads to a lot of the healer imbalances - SE buffs Astro and Scholar in an attempt to get more people to play them, but white mage's massive playerbase won't really switch unless white mage falls really far behind. We saw this last expac. And even for this expac, despite people saying "WHM does so much DPS!", it's been behind AST+SCH in combination, and lately, it's behind AST and SCH both individually as well.

But people don't say WHM is dead; right now in particular, they say SCH is dead. That's not because SCH isn't powerful though, it's due to playstyle issues; and white mage, despite being the weakest overall, is "close enough" that it retains its massive playerbase.

So, I don't see the queues bottlenecking around too many shield healers.

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Originally Posted by Voltenyne

The Raid Finder, which is used for matchmaking in high-end duties, will function the same as before with the exception of the healer role category. We understand that some of you would like the matchmaking settings to be divided even further to avoid being matched with other players of the same job. However, encounters are generally designed to be completed with any party composition and splitting the roles even further would lead to longer matchmaking times, so only the healer role has been divided.

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Only Raid Finder will force AST/WHM + SGE/SCH. As in, only the most recent Extreme trial, the current Unreal trial (whenever they return), and the current Savage raids.

https://i.imgur.com/74TXw0R.png


The Regular Duty Finder will still just use whatever two healers are available. This change will basically not even affect anyone outside of JP because NA and EU players don't queue for Extremes and Savages, so please stop bashing the devs for this misunderstanding. There are plenty of other things we can complain about that actually are their fault. This isn't one of them.

Honestly, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. Get a Pure and Shield healer built up, then just toggle which one you use based on which one is needed more.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

To be honest? If people are excited to play Sage and it creates a problem for a lack of Pure Healers, that would be great. It means SE made a mistake and haven't given the "pure healers" enough attention to make them interesting enough for people to play and adjustments might actually be made. Otherwise... meh? It doesn't really hurt or harm. It just irks me that they are forcing this dichotomy in the game when there could be more diversity on all the healers. Variety is the spice of life, as the saying goes after all. And healers are lacking a lot of spice right now... aside from Sage.

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What's worse is enforcing this Dichotomy when it pretty much doesn't exist.

Pure healers have shields, shield healers have regens.

What's the damn point of separating them now?

Every expansion people rush to play the new jobs. Give it a few weeks most will go back to their main jobs. There will still be a hefty amount of Whm and Ast players. Healer queues will be fine.

I believe he was talking about only Raidfinder. The same way it won't put 3 melee in a party for high-end content, it won't put 2 shield healers.

Only JP servers use raidfinder, so it's not relevant to most of us here.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

What's worse is enforcing this Dichotomy when it pretty much doesn't exist.

Pure healers have shields, shield healers have regens.

What's the damn point of separating them now?

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Exactly. Proves they have no clue what they're doing in regard to healers.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I believe he was talking about only Raidfinder. The same way it won't put 3 melee in a party for high-end content, it won't put 2 shield healers.

Only JP servers use raidfinder, so it's not relevant to most of us here.

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I distinctly recall using it in HW but not for savages. Is my memory shot? When it it become high end only?

Hm. *scratches head*

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Originally Posted by Imora

I distinctly recall using it in HW but not for savages. Is my memory shot? When it it become high end only?

Hm. *scratches head*

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The most recent extreme will be in there too.

I remember using Raid Finder to pug Sophia EX, because it was in an interesting position where we had the Raid Finder, but the cross server DF wasn't a thing yet.

I'm pretty sure a majority of players are still going to creep over to Reaper, especially with how intriguing its play was when showcased on the LL stream. I won't expect a whole ton of the Healer Playerbase to jump straight to SGE and flood the queues(and thus force a Tank reliance) but I expect mostly still much of the same.

As for the dichotomy issue people are talking about, separating them has to have reason for it, and it's probably something they've altered within the kits themselves to force them into this position alongside the stat squish they did. We'll need to see what it all is on the 13th for a more accurate judgement on separating into Pure and Shield Healers.

I bet they define pure(regen) and Barrier Healer if:

- You have a ST GCD Regen/Aoe GCD Regen
- You have a ST GCD Shield/Aoe GCD Shield

And... that's all.
Yeah. That the main biggest difference. These 2 GCD spammable heals.

Which is of course extremly ridiculous.

That's also why I think I will level WHM first.
I think a lot of people will want to try Sage from the get go so it should be easier to get spots as WHM/AST.
(+ parties will probably need at least one healer that knows their job while Sages are learning haha)

Edit:
Feels bad for SCH though :/

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

That's also why I think I will level WHM first.
I think a lot of people will want to try Sage from the get go so it should be easier to get spots as WHM/AST.

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Nobody's going to be using the Raid Finder, so it won't matter. Play Sage if you want to play Sage. The DF will match SGE+SGE or SGE+SCH in all the story trials if it needs to because the Duty Finder doesn't care about regens vs shields.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Nobody's going to be using the Raid Finder, so it won't matter. Play Sage if you want to play Sage. The DF will match SGE+SGE or SGE+SCH in all the story trials if it needs to because the Duty Finder doesn't care about regens vs shields.

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DF doesn't really matter but PF does.
Pretty sure most parties on PF will ask one of each and I am pretty confident the "Pure" healer will be the slot on demand.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I bet they define pure(regen) and Barrier Healer if:

- You have a ST GCD Regen/Aoe GCD Regen
- You have a ST GCD Shield/Aoe GCD Shield

And... that's all.
Yeah. That the main biggest difference. These 2 GCD spammable heals.

Which is of course extremly ridiculous.

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The problem of distinguishing between GCD 'pure healer' and GCD 'shield healer' is if all toolkits is inherently designed to be using the GCD for healing. This distinction really only applies to WHM - their healing gauge skills (Afflatus Solace / Afflatus Rapture) is on the GCD and they have a fairly diverse number of GCD heals (Cure II/Cure III/Medica II) that all gets powered up with their oGCD abilities (Confession / Asylum trait / Temperance).

AST has some concessions following this line of thought with GCD healing since their GCD heals can also be supercharged using 3 oGCD skills [Synastry / Horoscope / Neutral Sect]. However their main focus of healing is still done via oGCD heals. I'm not sure if the card system adjustment and skillset will change in Endwalker to fit the pure healer vs. shield healer duality though since cards are becoming a self buff instead.

However, shield healers don't follow the pattern of supercharging their GCD healing. Their healing output is done mainly through oGCD healing skills. It's better to say Shield healers are just more heavily focused oGCD healers with GCD shields + more frequent mitigation abilities at their disposal.

While SCH has Dissipation + Fey Illumination for skills that support GCD healing, they have 2 skills that uses GCD Healing - Succor + Adloquium (3 I guess if you count Physick... lol). The bulk of your kit doesn't work with GCD heals since healing magic potency only works on spells (GCD) instead of abilities (oGCD). At least in Scholar's case, they also have Consolation x2 + Sacred Soil + new AoE mitigation.

Sage seems to follow SCH's trend too, where a bulk of the healing is in oGCD healing skills, but they go about this differently. Support skills revolve around healing using DPS - such as "Cardia" healing a target and yourself every time you attack and "Soteria" supercharging Cardia's effect for a brief duration. However the good thing about Sage is having oGCD skills like "Haima" and "Panhaima" - which are support oGCD skills that work off your DPS. Both skills apply a weak shield to the party member (Panhaima is AoE shield), and grants 5 stacks of a status effect. The stack gets consumed to heal HP every time the sage uses DPS skills, so temporarily becomes like a temporary secondary Cardia target.

I do remember seeing Physis II giving a 10% healing potency buff, which should support GCD heals + GCD Eucrasia shields.... but that's about it for GCD usage. Truth be told, I'm not even sure if the 10% magic potency buff even works on Cardia's healing, but it seems to me that Pure healers have stronger GCD heals and shield healers are just oGCD healers with more frequent mitigation tools than their counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

DF doesn't really matter but PF does.
Pretty sure most parties on PF will ask one of each and I am pretty confident the "Pure" healer will be the slot on demand.

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So? Launch Extremes will be easy enough to do with any combination of healers, and Savages won't be added until a month after EW launch, so PF doesn't really matter either. If you want to play sage, play sage.

I thought that the further restrictions applied to Raid Finder but not Duty Finder.