I understand why cutscenes are unskippably played (and very slowly played when it comes to text prompts) at the moment: It's so that newer players can watch the story scenes without having to worry about gameplay interruptions. I'm also aware that this is the main reason that high experience point amounts are granted, so that higher-leveled players feel an incentive to join the roulette to ensure that newer players can get their needed clears to advance through the game's story content.
...That all said, if an instance is started and the game detects that there aren't any new players, meaning that there's no poetics bonus message, what value is there in the roulette still playing the slow text scenes if everybody has already completed the instance? It's a punishment for the sake of a reward, but it adds no value to the game, only harm.
Personally, I would like to see those two outdated dungeons completely replaced with lengthy single-player instances, but if that can't be done for... whatever reason, then doesn't it make sense for the instances to either require at least one new player or not play scenes when there are no such new players?
Yes, the latter means that there could be instances where nobody is new to the dungeon yet may still receive high rewards, but again, this could also be solved by forcing there to be at least one new player before one of the dungeon instances can be kicked off. My problem is that you can run into situations where the players are being exposed to lengthy periods of waiting but for no perceived benefit to any newer players due to newer players being absent, and that seems unhealthy to me. The systems in the game encourage this as an easy way to gain lots of experience, and thus many players will follow a broken system even if there's no benefit for any newer players.
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09-28-2021, 05:23 AMMellowMinkWhy do cutscenes in the MSQ Roulette play if the instance has no new players?
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09-28-2021, 05:50 AMDrWho2010
it's simple, if you want the reward for MSQ roulette you sit thru the cutscenes. simple as that.
Don't want to sit thru cutscenes? don't run the roulette. The duty finder does not check whether a player is new or not to a dungeon, it is there simply to match people up.
If there is no cutscenes, you get no reward. -
09-28-2021, 09:06 AMMistakeNot
One reason is because they can't (easily) make two different versions of the instance. Either cutscenes are skippable or they are not - a version where they are skippable only sometimes is not possible with reasonable amount of work.
Also, the only reason we get such good rewards from the MSQ roulette is because of the unskippable cutscenes. The rewards are basically a bribe to make us run the roulette despite the long cutscenes.
Make the cutscenes skippable and you can kiss the big rewards goodbye too. -
09-28-2021, 04:32 PMJojoya
If they were to program it so it wouldn't play cutscenes if there are no new players in the group, that would become an incentive to kick new players from the party so everyone left could skip the cutscenes.
If you don't want to watch cutscenes, don't queue for MSQ roulette. There are plenty of other ways to earn XP/tomestones/gil. -
09-28-2021, 04:59 PMJustuasLiterally wouldn't be a problem if they made it so that kicking the new players wouldn't allow you to skip the cs. In other words, if there were at least one new player at the start, you wouldn't be able to skip the cs even if you kicked the new player(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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09-28-2021, 05:40 PMFrizzeThen you would kick the new player, abandon instance without penalty(there is no penalty for leaving if the group isnt full), and que again and hope not to get new player. Or you would only que for it with a full group to insure that no new players were present, thus making it harder for new players to get into an instance. If there exists a short version of the instance with the same rewards as the long version, then there are players who WILL find a way to take advantage of that in a way that will hurt new players. Believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Though i do agree with one thing OP said. The actual solution has always been to make these solo instances(and pull out the big fight at the end as a full group trial to end 2.0). -
09-30-2021, 02:38 PMStepjam
Then instead you'd have players that just abandon as soon as they see there are new players in the instance.
Hell, that happened for a while whenever people got Castrum over the Praetorium.
The best option would be for them to rework the two instances into something different, maybe a solo instance. But chances are if they have any plans for that, they aren't in the cards for the immediate future, so really this is the best option we got right now. -
10-01-2021, 03:33 PMkiagenwaNah. I love this roulette for its rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frizze
You don't want to do it then don't do it. Simple 'nuff.
I'm ok with the current setup. If I don't have time, I just skip it. No harm done.
If less ppl join the roulette for what it is, the devs would most probably increase the rewards or nerf it even further.
If they make these solo instances, I hope they offer something else in replacement. -
10-01-2021, 06:16 PMFrizzeAnd believe me, i dont run these instances. I also dont make endless threads complaining about them. I have never run the MSQ roulette, and ive only run castrum and prae once since the change to unskippable cutscenes was made(to help an RL friend). I support the single player instance idea because it solves the problems the instances lead to for new players. I also happen to have the less popular opinion that "no effort" means of leveling up should be severely limited if not outright removed. So no MSQ roulette, cut the xp from CT by 75-90% once a class hits level 60, ban anyone who equips lower level items to prevent being qued into higher level instances... you know, unpopular ideas like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiagenwa
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10-01-2021, 10:58 PMDPZ2
There is no current "problem" with the MSQ roulette. It is working as intended. I'd rather that battle development resources be used to implement, oh, I don't know, current and future battle instances rather than revamp past expansion instances simply to make it 'easier' for a player to get a large amount of XP.
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10-02-2021, 04:54 AMEnkidoh
It's because the cutscene is not a recording, but the game is simply loading that cutscene back into memory, so naturally there is no other party members other than you there (this is also why the cutscenes for the Ceremony of Eternal Bonding are not in the Unending Journey, without your partner there it simply would not look right). It is also why it will show your character wearing whatever your are currently wearing, rather than what you wore back when you did that quest/duty.
This is why it's important not to skip cutscenes as they not only lose a lot of cohesion narrative wise in both pacing and narrative as well as not having other party members there to make it look 'right', some story cutscenes are not in the Unending Journey at all, so if you miss them once they're gone forever (unless you use New Game+ or just create a new character and ultimately play through that part again).
ANNNND, I goofed, I misread the title as about lack of other players in cutscenes in the Unending Journey for some reason, not about MSQ Roulette, I'm a silly cat! :P Sorry!
As far as that particular topic is concerned, others have summed it up - roulette bonuses are a carrot to ensure old duties (especially main scenario ones) are able to be filled for new players, unfortunately, human nature being what it is, older players are exploiting this and speed running dungeons to get through them quickly to get their rewards as fast as possible, to the detriment of new players.
This was especially bad in Castrum Meridandium and the Praetorium, with new players being forced by higher level players to skip the cutscenes so as to rush through it. SE retaliated by locking cutscene skip in CM and Prae. Having it set even when there are no new players in the party is to prevent new players being victimized by older players if they happen to end up in a DF queue with new players and thus having to watch cutscenes.
"This is why we can't have nice things" and all that. -
10-06-2021, 03:15 AMMellowMinkIf the new player is kicked for unjustified reasons, then the person who initiated the vote would ideally get in trouble, since the new player would report that the voting feature was misused and then a moderator would be able to review who kicked off the vote for inaccurate reasons (like the new player being kicked for harassment despite said new player saying nothing offensive).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frizze
Also, the game doesn't automatically tell you who the new player is, just that there's at least one. -
10-06-2021, 04:33 AMJojoyaIt's generally easy to tell who the new player in a group is by looking for the sprout icon then checking their gear (a first time player almost always has an eclectic collection of gear equipped because they're stuck relying on MSQ rewards).Quote:
Originally Posted by MellowMink
A GM may have a hard time determining if the vote kick was being intentionally misused short of someone saying the wrong thing in chat. A lot of new players may not even be aware that misuse of vote kick can be reported and so wouldn't do it.
The simple solution here is the one that players don't want to accept - don't queue for MSQ roulette if you hate sitting through the cutscenes. Use the time to do other content for XP and tomestones. -
10-06-2021, 08:14 PMFrizze
For a castrum or prae run, if you cant tell who the new player is than its probably you. The people kicking the sprout would rarely get in trouble for the reasons that Jojoya points out. And thats if they even kick the new player. Maybe they kick a veteran instead(someone who wouldnt report), then all leave? New player is now all alone. Do they know how to replenish group? Do the replacement players stay? Because its still free to leave until the group gets full again. How long does it take to get enough "join in progress" players to start making progress? And if these ways of abusing the system arent good enough, people will think of others. Again i guarantee to you, if the game has 2 versions of the same duty which offer the same rewards but one takes 2-3 times as long then some players WILL find a way to make sure they get the shorter one, and they will be more then willing to hurt the experience of any sprouts that get in their way.
Side note: I would guess the kick would be for afk/offline, not harassment. If asked by a GM they can always say that the player had pokeballed which is basically impossible to disprove. Solution to make sure no new players are subjected to any of this(and to make it so i never have to see another thread complaining about the issue from either side) is to make these solo instances. I dont generally support using present dev time and money to fix past issues that we've gotten used to, but i would understand if they did for this issue. -
10-09-2021, 01:45 PMMellowMinkNot necessarily; I've done main scenario roulettes for non-main jobs that only just reached level 50, which can also be the case for sprouts or returning players. Sprout icons can also take a long time to go away on their own, or someone who's still pretty new can remove their sprout icon manually. There's no consistently accurate way to tell who a new player is for an instance, or even how many new players there are if there's more than one for said instance; all the game tells you is that it knows there's at least one new player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya