Sage

Prepare to judge the hell out of me...

I am in total fangirl mode over the Sage right now. From to working out my hotbars to picking out my starting glamour, it's all about the Sage for me.

With all the anger-posts on the healer forums (rightfully so), I wanted to take a moment to see if there were any fellow Eorzeans planning on ditching their books, staves, and discount globes to don the mystical, floating lightsabers (with lasers).

So for those who know for sure that they're making the switch:
What is appealing to you about it? What are you leaving as your main? On a scale from 1-10, with 1 being "meh" and 10 being a 12-yo girl at a Justin Bieber concert circa 2012, how excited are you about the job?

For those who aren't switching:
What's keeping you glued to your current job? What are, if any exist, your qualms with the Sage job?

Sage!
Sage!
Sage!
Sage!

I am definitely on the Sage train. I currently main summoner but main the healers from 2.0-4.0. Still got them to 80 in 5.0. Summoner looks amazing in 6.0 but with the changes it will be very simple to play and I honestly like a little bit complexity to jobs and Sage fits it perfectly.

I love the instant cast shields when you augment their spells. I love how it’s a little bit of Whm and sch in there. It’s gonna be so much fun to play. I am on a 10 of fan girl central! I can’t wait!

Defenitly on the sage train as well.

Spent my last week's evenigns slowly grinding out the ShB PvP heal set as I feel it will make a great basis for a Sage glamour. (Unless we get a magically/crystally Sage Weapon so that my normal Priestess inspired Healglam fits)

Did some leveling on my Monk (only class I had at seventy atm) to see how efficient ShB leveling dungeons vs Bosja will be to bring sage up to par. (Seemed to be the same on average as far as level ups/h go, though dungeons were more reliable than Bosja where dependign on CE spawn it fluctuated a lot)

Now i am stuck how to most efficiently get a DPS up to new Max as well soonish after launch. (SMN was really handy for that for doing casual things without having to play heal back when I still had hope for SCH).

Figuring out Hotbars will be something I do once I have the new toy in my hands, because I had issues with preplanned Hotbar set ups not 'feeling right' once put to practice before.

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Originally Posted by Novak_04

For those who aren't switching:
What's keeping you glued to your current job? What are, if any exist, your qualms with the Sage job?

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I’d rather not endorse SE’s habit of completely ignoring older classes within a role or outright stripping out their depth only just to make some shiny new class that does half of what the old ones used to and maybe one or two forum suggestions from an expansion ago then call it a day.

Basically, why you settling for just Sage getting the attention it did? A modicum of mechanical depth that won’t even last past 7.0 shouldn’t be dangled at us like a toy. It’s insulting.

It's actually AST that has my attention. I'm a healer main, so Sage will get leveled along with the others by default. And I'll actually have to use Sage as my barrier healer since my SCH is on strike until it gets reworked. But I can't help but be curious about AST, and really want to see their tooltips.

WHM I always play because it's just such a pretty and aesthetically pleasing job. WHM really has that angelic tone to it. You can almost smell the lavender and chamomile anytime they're in your party.

Sage has a futuristic appeal to it that's just really neat. I'm sure a lot of players will really enjoy this job. How much I will end up playing it will just depend on what happens with SCH.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I’d rather not endorse SE’s habit of completely ignoring older classes within a role or outright stripping out their depth only just to make some shiny new class that does half of what the old ones used to and maybe one or two forum suggestions from an expansion ago then call it a day.

Basically, why you settling for just Sage getting the attention it did? A modicum of mechanical depth that won’t even last past 7.0 shouldn’t be dangled at us like a toy. It’s insulting.

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I don't think 6.0 Sage is as difficult as 6.0 AST tbf.

I've been an AST main basically since the job dropped, the tease for it was basically what locked me into the game.

I really love the card system and being a buffing healer, the aesthetic of using pseudo-tarot cards is what really drew me in.

Now I'm a college student in the medical field. Sages design and magic style and skill names fit more closely to who I am now, so I'm ready to make the switch to Sage.

For me its a 4. I can see that single button damage coming, especially for aoe. Im not happy to see the single button healer dps staying. Its a tie between ast and sage for me. Im pretty sure sch is dead and whm doesn't hold more interest than 5.0 for me. I'll probably level up ast first before any other job and then a tank, then a dps(probably smn), from there i dunno, maybe sage. If it wasnt for that i'd say closer to an 8 or 9, but i think reaper is a 10/10.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

It’s insulting.

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Well you aren't wrong. Yet it will be entirely ignored and they all know it, so sans quitting - you can't really blame them. Despite my displeasure at the game direction, in practise its simple. If 'something' manages to engage me longer than 2 minutes I might try it. If it is just an even bigger tendonitis/one button mash though; alongside other 'accessibility' (cough) options, then I may just consider the game dead at that point and put everyone out of the misery of my complaints with a rl alt-f4 on it all.

Now, I am one of those disgruntled healers who has complained much on here.

At the moment Sage for me is met with cautious optimism. I agree with posts like Grimoire-M's, but there's plenty of threads with my concerns/complaints/issues, so let's look at the optimistic side to my cautious optimism. I think if SGE ends up a step in the right direction, then it's better to play SGE because it'd give feedback they've done something right with SGE and that there's something about SGE that draws people more than other healers.

I think it's positive they're embracing that healers DPS. Because not DPSing as a SGE is a HPS loss. I think it acknowledges the basic healer design of this game and that's to juggle heals and damage and not just focus entirely on heals, but it is forgiving enough in the majority of content to accommodate the latter. SGE may end up a good teaching tool if anything.

The DPS rotation I think is the biggest concern on a healer on whether it'll be interesting or at least break up the monotony. The first point is that it looks like your DPS rotation will depend on shield usage, because it looks like they're using a Blackest Night like mechanic to fill your "Adder's Sting" stacks and they're spent on Toxicon and possibly a mystery skill we didn't see a tooltip for but was on the hotbar (it could be a single target version of Toxicon).

So my expectation is...

So my expectation is...
Your single target focus:
- Eucrasia -> Eucrasia Dosis every 30 secs
- Spam Dosis
- Use Phlegma every 45 secs
- Use Pneuma every 120 secs
- Attempt a shield up time
- Spend your Adder's Sting stacks on Toxicon when you need to move (it shares the same potency as Dosis) or a single target version if it turns out one of the unknown abilities is one.

Your AoE focus:
- Spam Dyscrasia
- Attempt a shield up time
- Spend your Adder's Sting stacks on Toxicon
- Use Phlegma every 45 secs
- Use Pneuma every 120 secs

So this already feels like an improvement on the SCH and WHM experience for handling DPS.


The we look at the enhancement mechanic. This is similar to an Emergency Tactics change I suggested for SCH, heck one of them is a reverse of one example I gave of it. My suggested was for Emergency tactics to turn Biolysis to do all of its damage at once. Dosis/Eucrasia Dosis is the reverse of that. Whilst mine suggestions were more DPS & Utility oriented, it's still a dynamic way of adding more abilities without taking up more room, which was the main logic behind the suggestion. Not to imply they took my idea, because the logic has existed before in Dark Arts and Emergency Tactics already kinda has a similar effect. But to see it, is a plus.

Another suggestion I had seen around the forums was to reverse how Emergency Tactics works on Succor/Adlo, where it applies the shield and if you need it then you detonate it because it avoids using Emergency Tactics and find it gets wasted because the cohealer got them to max health in the time it takes to go from Emergency Tactics -> Succor. So this will be a positive thing for how Sage handles shields/version put heal and looks like it has more flexibility. So it is looking like SGE is going to be a better pure healer than SCH and it kinda makes sense because AST is a better shield healer than WHM. So hopefully it means SCH gets more love in its shields than SGE does...and in some ways it already does because of CritLo (which can be forced with Recitation), but I've made it clear for a while my stance on shield healing, so I won't go into that. But we'll obviously see what this means for SCH when the media tour comes around.

The fact SGE has to use shields to aid its DPS rotation has me on the cautious side, because lilies has a similar system for using heals to get to Afflatus Misery but people require healing to build it (and wait until you have 3 lilies too). But the upside is that it could maybe encourage more shield use in your kit and a shield is still useful at full health and you only need to use it when you know somebody is going to damage and it may be harder to waste. The other advantage is that you can stack them up during a damage bursts so I can see the advantage and how it could break up the monotony, so it might not be so bad, it seems 1 shield = 1 Adders' Sting as opposed to 3 heals = 1 blood lily.

And then with Cardia, it is a replacement for SCH's faerie and her Embrace, but you get more control over who it targets, if you can do this on the fly it could be an interesting mechanic to optimise, because you'll be juggling it with your DPS rotation, which could further break that monotony.

So I am seeing things that make me a little excited to see what happens. But until I see it in action, see how everything works in practice and maybe get to play it, I can't shake that cautiousness.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

So I am seeing things that make me a little excited to see what happens. But until I see it in action, see how everything works in practice and maybe get to play it, I can't shake that cautiousness.

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As much as I am excited for Sage's kit, I'm also cautiously skeptical about healer designs above 6.0. Now they have acknowledged Green DPS, what are they going to do with the other 3 jobs to make them balanced and varied at the same time?

Imo SE should advance the other 3 healers "a bit" towards Sage's design and strike for a 50/50 heal/DPS balance. Gimmicks that link the healing skills with damage skills are great designs.

If they revert Sage in 7.0 back to spamming 1 DPS skill along with the rest of the healers I'll be extremely disappointed. If they abandon the Green DPS design and make healers spend 90% of their time healing instead, that's an immediate uninstall for me.

I wouldn't mind spending 90% of the time healing if the game were designed for it... which is not. Tanks and healers are essentially just dps with support abilities and it's past time they acknowledge that.

The return of Lord and Lady was a welcoming surprise though, since I always thought we could use more spells like Assize that are both healing and offensive - the devs want us to focus on healing, lots of us want to deal damage because there's not enough healing to be done, por que no los dos?

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I wouldn't mind spending 90% of the time healing if the game were designed for it... which is not. Tanks and healers are essentially just dps with support abilities and it's past time they acknowledge that.

The return of Lord and Lady was a welcoming surprise though, since I always thought we could use more spells like Assize that are both healing and offensive - the devs want us to focus on healing, lots of us want to deal damage because there's not enough healing to be done, por que no los dos?

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Totally respect your personal preference. One thing to watch out for though is when devs start removing/downgrading DPS abilities from healers, and render the role useless outside of an instance (aka curebot). I think that is bad for the game's health no matter what.

More healing could be achieved by encounter designs while maintaining healers' "damage potential". Or like you suggested, more skills that do both.

I'm going to do scholar first for endwalker because by god I have done so for the past several expansions and I'm not going to stop now. Then I'll try sage afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I'm going to do scholar first for endwalker because by god I have done so for the past several expansions and I'm not going to stop now. Then I'll try sage afterwards.

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You are stronger than I.

Personally, i dont have any high hopes for the kit being actually any good aside from the fact that Sage has a Gap Closer.

If Squeenix Job design taught me anything about them, then it is the fact that theyre just making Jobs within the same role more and more the same, so if Sage will be similar to SCH just "newer", then i might as well resign my hopes today already.

Sage and AST both lookin spicy imo.

WHM and SCH are kind of meh. Holy 2 looks nice.

It'll be nice to finally have a new healer to play after all this time. I just hope it doesn't suffer from the problem AST had when it came out of potencies and MP regens being way too low. I still remember needing to pour literally everything i had into double pulls back in the day to keep the tank alive. If a dps was taking unnecessary damage they were dead.

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Originally Posted by Averax

Sage and AST both lookin spicy imo.

WHM and SCH are kind of meh. Holy 2 looks nice.

It'll be nice to finally have a new healer to play after all this time. I just hope it doesn't suffer from the problem AST had when it came out of potencies and MP regens being way too low. I still remember needing to pour literally everything i had into double pulls back in the day to keep the tank alive. If a dps was taking unnecessary damage they were dead.

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I feel this. To me, I get the vibe that WHM and SCH are being thrown under the bus in order for AST and SGE to shine (WHM less so than SCH, but its still basically being ignored in the grand scheme of things).

WHM's new totem action has a lot of potential to be interesting, but it doesn't seem that any of WHM's issues are being addressed other than weaving. Holy II seems like it might have some potential outside of AoE based on its interactions with the new totem, but generating lilies without creating new ways to spend them seems like they completely wiffed on the core design flaws of the lily system. While it has so much potential, I'm legitimately gobsmacked they supposedly did nothing to build from the foundation they created in Shadowbringers. What's more, since Glare now has a 1.5 second cast time, the current solution of using lilies to weave is now largely obsolete, meaning it will be even harder to spend lilies outside of savage/ultimate prog. Mobility-dense segments might still encourage their use, but WHM doesn't have enough OGCD actions to warrant sacking your DPS for a double weave window. Also who knows if Afflatus Misery's potency is at least getting buffed to keep up with Glare II, though I'm honestly doubtful that it will, meaning afflatus heals become an even worse DPS loss. There's a lot underdetermined in regards to specifics like potencies, but what we've seen so far doesn't inspire confidence. Let's pray the media tour makes me eat my words.

To be honest, I'm kind of hoping SCH crashes and burns. It sucks to say, and I don't want SCH players to be unhappy, but sometimes you need a colossal failure in order to slap the design team awake to the fact that SCH feels like a hollow husk of what it used to be, potencies and efficiency be damned. It's sloppy, it has no cohesiveness, the Fey Gauge is a joke, and it's not even a very good "barrier healer" outside of Savage/Ultimate where Adlo and Succor actually become tactically useful tools for certain mechanics. If we want to talk about "not inspiring confidence," I don't think there's a worse way to lead off a job's design philosophy than how they introduced SCH's slide during the live letter. "We don't know what to do with it." The sad thing is, I'm willing to bet it will still be a top-performing healer despite its dumpster fire kit.

Meanwhile, AST is looking to have a lot of cool new toys to play with. Some players are complaining that WHM's totem is just Earthly Star and the new "Starshower" action is just Assize, but I disagree. At a glance at least, there's a bit more nuance to them and potentially different effects. The new/old Lord and Lady are looking a lot better, both not consuming an existing arcanum card alongside their effects. I think it will come down to how you acquire either. If they're random again, I'd say that would be not ideal, though if that have charges now then you can at least sit on the Lady and wait for a good time to use her for at least a little while. They didn't mention the card effects so it's possible they're staying the same. I know that doesn't sound great to a lot of players, but depending on how the new seal system operates, it could be possible that card identity might actually come into play moreso with how those seal combos work. It could, in theory, indirectly give the cards identity into which seals they have and what benefits those grant you. It's really hard to say for sure since we don't have any specifics, but I'm a bit more optimistic than I am for WHM and SCH. Now here's to hoping Sleeve Draw feels better than Shadowbringers.

SGE meanwhile is stealing the show. Lots of really well-designed actions from the look of things. Icarus, Pneuma, Phlegma, Eucrasia, Cardia... It seems like, for the first time literally ever, that they're actually looking at the contrast between GCD DPS potency and contrasting that value against some of your other GCD options and trying to actually incentivize us to do other things over spamming Dosis all the time. One of the things that I found agonizing about the designers' approach to healing was that they clearly wanted us to DPS less but without increasing damage output or creating incentives behind other GCD options to make us want to stop. Now they are, and if they can latch onto that like a tick and suck that concept dry, we could be in for more positive changes in the future. I was initially disappointed in Toxicon II's implementation from what we've been able to translate from the demonstration, but as others have pointed out, it's likely that the DPS action we didn't see during the last live letter that Alphinaud uses 3 times during the benchmark is likely a single target Adder's Sting/Serpent's Fang (whatever it's called) spender. If gaining those stacks is indeed gained from our SGE Adlo being attacked/broken, at that's at least DPS neutral, that we'll have accomplished more than I had ever hoped for in regards to healers. Sure, they might be blatantly stealing from Blackest Night, but I'm certainly not complaining.

All-in-all, I really kind of hope that AST and SGE pop off and WHM/SCH numbers plummet. I really don't want those mains to feel like their job is ruined, but sometimes you need to burn down what's broken to create fertile land for something new and fresh to come in, and that might be exactly what we need in order for the designers to see what we want in our healers. I mentioned this before, but we obviously don't have the specifics on each job yet, and that ultimately means there's more that we don't know than what we do. For all we know, everything I said is hilariously inaccurate, but we'll just have to wait and see I suppose. Fingers crossed people.

Personally I play healer mainly for raiding, so I play whichever has the best gameplay and is most effective. At the moment that's AST for me, simply because it's the best healer and the higher APM, weave, wide oGCD toolkit and mobility make it more enjoyable than clip mage or being held back by clunky fairy AI. Healer class fantasy just doesn't appeal to me that much. Due to that, I have no idea which I'll main. I know it's unlikely to be SCH while the fairy is a thing, but otherwise I want to see the full toolkit and overall gameplay of the other 3. I will likely level all healers anyway.

I'm excited for Sage, to be honest.

You know what I'm not excited for?

Raiders to get ahold of it. For some reason I can't quite describe, it already disappoints me that videos are already being made, talking about 'meta' and 'optimal rotations'.
What I'm not excited for, is for them to get a hold of it and start whining that it's 'tOo cOmPlICaTeD' or something of some such nature, and for them to beg for Sage to be dumbed down and simplified.
I want this complexity I'm seeing. I WANT this level of thought in a kit.


Astrologian used to have complexity too. But then (as I was told a few years ago. I could very much be wrong, and I acknowledge that), the high-tier raiders started whining about the card system (More than just 'The Balance' was useful. I mean c'mon), and look what happened. The card system was.... butchered and mangled into an incredibly bland, simplified dumbed down system of.. 'Oh boy! Attack cards.. and... more attack cards.... and just... an extra 3% damage.. oh yaaaaay...'. Royal Road? Gone. The other card abilities? Vanished.

I just pray to Thaliak that high-tier content players just.. leave this class be. PLEASE, ALLOW A JOB TO BE FUN AND INTERESTING.
Also yes, I am still incredibly salty and bitter about this. My post is ssomewhat emotionally-charged because I honestly loved Astrologian until the card system was destroyed.

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Originally Posted by AuRaBookworm

I'm excited for Sage, to be honest.

You know what I'm not excited for?

Raiders to get ahold of it. For some reason I can't quite describe, it already disappoints me that videos are already being made, talking about 'meta' and 'optimal rotations'.
What I'm not excited for, is for them to get a hold of it and start whining that it's 'tOo cOmPlICaTeD' or something of some such nature, and for them to beg for Sage to be dumbed down and simplified.
I want this complexity I'm seeing. I WANT this level of thought in a kit.


Astrologian used to have complexity too. But then (as I was told a few years ago. I could very much be wrong, and I acknowledge that), the high-tier raiders started whining about the card system (More than just 'The Balance' was useful. I mean c'mon), and look what happened. The card system was.... butchered and mangled into an incredibly bland, simplified dumbed down system of.. 'Oh boy! Attack cards.. and... more attack cards.... and just... an extra 3% damage.. oh yaaaaay...'. Royal Road? Gone. The other card abilities? Vanished.

I just pray to Thaliak that high-tier content players just.. leave this class be. PLEASE, ALLOW A JOB TO BE FUN AND INTERESTING.
Also yes, I am still incredibly salty and bitter about this. My post is ssomewhat emotionally-charged because I honestly loved Astrologian until the card system was destroyed.

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I don't blame high-end raiders for asking for consistency. It wasn't them who wanted all healers to be dumbed down- They did want AST to be more consistent and that is something I don't particularly resent them for, considering how frustrating perfect Balance draws affected Savage runs.

Imagine, you could get party wide 15% damage buffs for 30seconds (Then subsequently nerfed to 10% for 20seconds then down to 5% for 30seconds. And you could use Celestial Opposition to extend the buffs) , but only sometimes. It would break progression when you could skip whole phases, but only when RNG would allow.

I do agree, the ShB card system for AST was dumbed down and still frustrating, but it was much more consistent, at least. (Even if you still had to mechanically fish for certain seals, but the difference was minimal.)

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Originally Posted by AuRaBookworm

I'm excited for Sage, to be honest.

You know what I'm not excited for?

Raiders to get ahold of it. For some reason I can't quite describe, it already disappoints me that videos are already being made, talking about 'meta' and 'optimal rotations'.
What I'm not excited for, is for them to get a hold of it and start whining that it's 'tOo cOmPlICaTeD' or something of some such nature, and for them to beg for Sage to be dumbed down and simplified.
I want this complexity I'm seeing. I WANT this level of thought in a kit.

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What?

Some raiders took issue with the old Spear and Arrow cards, but the reasoning behind their dislike for these two cards was actually pretty sound. Extreme and upwards boils down to memorising a rotation for the fight. These two cards could throw people's cool downs and rotations out of sync, potentially causing a pretty hefty DPS loss if they missed a burst window.

You do realise that Sleeve draw appears to have gone, as has any of the 'complexity' around Divination. And that's before we even mention Noct Stance.

Wake up and realise it's not raiders that are pushing to dumb down healers. Rather it's SE diluting the role down to the point where the hardest part of clearing casual content is keeping up with your tank.

As some people pointed, if you don't like to DPS as a healer, please don't play Sage.
DPS is literally part of their healing kit.

Real question though: What would one do if they don't like to DPS as a healer in FFXIV? /beesknees until damage happens?

Spam cure 1 obviously.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Spam cure 1 obviously.

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Where is your signature from

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Real question though: What would one do if they don't like to DPS as a healer in FFXIV? /beesknees until damage happens?

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To me, this is like asking “what if I want to play in first person shooter mode as a physical ranged DPS?”

FFXIV healing always has and always will demand DPS contribution from you, and ignoring that is blatantly hurting your team. Maybe one day they’ll have a healer that passively contributes to DPS, but you will still be working to optimize your contribution, and that will still be expected.

You don’t play Crash Bandicoot and say “well what if I want to play this like a Sonic platformer?” You don’t play Tekken and go “Why isn’t the combat like Blazblue?”

If you’re asking “Why am I seen as a bad healer when I don’t do DPS?” It’s because you’re pretending this is a different game.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Where is your signature from

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konosuba movie

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

snip

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SGE and AST just feel like the healers who have things going on to occupy their time, and WHM and SCH do not.

To be fair, WHM has always ever been marketed as the pure healer. It's got a lot of tools for healing and not much else. Scholar used to be a healer with "things going on" but over time it's reached WHM status. I'm sure both will be fine healers going forward, but gameplaywise they're not going to be as exciting as AST and SGE.

Even now AST is my favorite healer because it feels like there's way more to do than just spamming malefic. Even in dungeons, it's not like i have holy to keep a pack nearly permastunned or a fairy to just healbot the tank, so i gotta plan my cooldown usage accordingly to maximize both my and the group's damage without letting the tank die.

I will say, WHM and SCH are great if you're feeling rusty or you're in a new encounter and want the safety net. But outside of that, the gameplay gets pretty bland pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

What?

Some raiders took issue with the old Spear and Arrow cards, but the reasoning behind their dislike for these two cards was actually pretty sound. Extreme and upwards boils down to memorising a rotation for the fight. These two cards could throw people's cool downs and rotations out of sync, potentially causing a pretty hefty DPS loss if they missed a burst window.

You do realise that Sleeve draw appears to have gone, as has any of the 'complexity' around Divination. And that's before we even mention Noct Stance.

Wake up and realise it's not raiders that are pushing to dumb down healers. Rather it's SE diluting the role down to the point where the hardest part of clearing casual content is keeping up with your tank.

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And now astro gets a random heal or aoe dmg card every 60 seconds we’re I don’t have any consistency at all again. Need the heal in specific situations? Have a king lol. Wanting too get the perfect self buff from the seals every 90 seconds ? Have the same seal in a row lol. Want to redraw it ? Get the same seal again lol. Want to redraw again ? You can’t cause you can only redraw once per card. Why ? No clue maybe scholar needs too lose Energy drain again “shrug”

I too am excited to play a healer that can dps...at least until Yoshi P ruins it too.

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Originally Posted by BooPoo

If they revert Sage in 7.0 back to spamming 1 DPS skill along with the rest of the healers I'll be extremely disappointed. If they abandon the Green DPS design and make healers spend 90% of their time healing instead, that's an immediate uninstall for me.

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Is Sage not spamming 1 DPS skill? I guess we have a melee skill every ~45 seconds (Phlegma) but I don't think that's enough to say we're not spamming 1 DPS skill? Unless you're including Toxikon but that's just basically a ruin 2 equivalent (but gauge based) so it's super super situational since it's the same potency as our filler? So is that big laser beam that comes with a heal (since it's the same potency as filler).... And another healer is getting a similar skill to that according to the unmentionable thing.. Seems to be as boring as the other healers o.o

It's more uh "dps focused", I guess? But not in a 'complex' way (maybe if we're referring to someone who mainly uses the basic GCD skills and isn't used to making use of their full toolkit?) . We have to use our DPS skills for the 'partner' heal thing and honestly because of that it looks like we're gonna be spamming 1 DPS skill more than the rest?

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And now astro gets a random heal or aoe dmg card every 60 seconds we’re I don’t have any consistency at all again. Need the heal in specific situations? Have a king lol. Wanting too get the perfect self buff from the seals every 90 seconds ? Have the same seal in a row lol. Want to redraw it ? Get the same seal again lol. Want to redraw again ? You can’t cause you can only redraw once per card. Why ? No clue maybe scholar needs too lose Energy drain again “shrug”

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What...is this? This is kind of hot take on Astrologian gameplay is what really killed the class for me. The group that thinks like this wouldn't be happy unless Astrologian only had two cards, both of them instantly gave all three seals, and Redraw gave you the opposite card if you didn't pick the one you want.

I'm moving to Sage because this kind of thinking has become the mainstream and development direction and the charm of Astrologian has butchered.

In raw APM it's likely not going to be that different. It's positioning dependancy is an interesting twist though, sort of like the old Miasma II with the dot without the MP economy woes.

I don't think it's going to rival Shadow/Disc priests, but baby steps and all. If people rush to it and stick there then hopefully it'll send a bit of a message to SE.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

What...is this? This is kind of hot take on Astrologian gameplay is what really killed the class for me. The group that thinks like this wouldn't be happy unless Astrologian only had two cards, both of them instantly gave all three seals, and Redraw gave you the opposite card if you didn't pick the one you want.

I'm moving to Sage because this kind of thinking has become the mainstream and development direction and the charm of Astrologian has butchered.

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Yes but the problem is square can’t make up there mind what they wanna do with astro they made random cards into seals changed sleeve draw for consistency reason and now they do a 180 out of nowhere to make the job again more inconsistent at some point it becomes ridiculous either make all rng or non but don’t change your fricking mind every 3 months only too have sleeve draw with 3 random cards only to change it too 1 card with the seal you missed and now too remove it entirely. And even I’m sure you had moments in stormblood and heavensward were you cursed bad random cards and if you actually I want more consistency then sorry to disappoint you but I rather take the old card system over the new any day but what annoys me is that astro flipp flops all over the Place between making it consistent or random and at some point you can’t see it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Yes but the problem is square can’t make up there mind what they wanna do with astro they made random cards into seals changed sleeve draw for consistency reason and now they do a 180 out of nowhere to make the job again more inconsistent at some point it becomes ridiculous either make all rng or non but don’t change your fricking mind every 3 months only too have sleeve draw with 3 random cards only to change it too 1 card with the seal you missed and now too remove it entirely. And even I’m sure you had moments in stormblood and heavensward were you cursed bad random cards and if you actually I want more consistency then sorry to disappoint you but I rather take the old card system over the new any day but what annoys me is that astro flipp flops all over the Place between making it consistent or random and at some point you can’t see it anymore.

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Absolutely everything has been a step towards less RNG.

Heavensward: 6 cards with 6 difference effects, and 3 different modifying effects. Shuffle works once and may return the same card.

Stormblood: Undraw abilities are added, Shuffle becomes Redraw and has charges. Now an Astrologian can drop whatever cards they want, which wasn't an option before, and can Redraw multiple times instead of once.

Shadowbringer: All the cards are changed to the single DPS effect we know now, now instead of having 18 different combinations of cards, with Expanded, Extended, and Enhanced Royal Road abilities, everything is a single target DPS buff. We go from 6 cards with 18 possible effects to essentially, one card with three possible effects (our seal system).

Endwalker: Further simplified in an unspecified way due to spoilers I can't expand on.

Yeah, I used to get bad draws on Astrologian, I also used to have fun on it.

Edit: I won't be responding further on this topic because this is a Sage thread and talking about how my baby was murdered is like- laaaaaaaaaame.

I think the Sage design benefits a lot just from having Eukrasia work as a modifier for abilities and core mechanic, and I really think if they stick to that design there's a lot of potential for future job growth and unique gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Absolutely everything has been a step towards less RNG.

Heavensward: 6 cards with 6 difference effects, and 3 different modifying effects. Shuffle works once and may return the same card.

Stormblood: Undraw abilities are added, Shuffle becomes Redraw and has charges. Now an Astrologian can drop whatever cards they want, which wasn't an option before, and can Redraw multiple times instead of once.

Shadowbringer: All the cards are changed to the single DPS effect we know now, now instead of having 18 different combinations of cards, with Expanded, Extended, and Enhanced Royal Road abilities, everything is a single target DPS buff. We go from 6 cards with 18 possible effects to essentially, one card with three possible effects (our seal system).

Endwalker: Further simplified in an unspecified way due to spoilers I can't expand on.

Yeah, I used to get bad draws on Astrologian, I also used to have fun on it.

Edit: I won't be responding further on this topic because this is a Sage thread and talking about how my baby was murdered is like- laaaaaaaaaame.

I think the Sage design benefits a lot just from having Eukrasia work as a modifier for abilities and core mechanic, and I really think if they stick to that design there's a lot of potential for future job growth and unique gameplay.

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Redraw being changed to guarantee a different card was a change done in heavensward. You also were able to "undraw" cards by using a macro /statusoff "spire drawn" etc. so you could in fact drop cards in hw. All stormblood did was add minor arcana to not fully get rid of the drawn card (and that added rng too).

There werent any charges in stormblood? charges were a shb thing. Shb was the one that wanted to reduce rng the most by making all the cards the same, and the differences for bad draws were so minimal it didnt really matter.

and now endwalker is taking back the rng mitigation from shb such as sleeve draw and the charges on redraw. and is now adding back rng damage with minor arcana and the new seal system. its effectively a step back from having less rng (which is fine imo, i dont play card games to always have the same cards)


but going back to sage...

I actually find sage to be kind of wasted potential. eucrasia only seems to affect three skills total, two of which won't even be worth using much without the eukrasia effect :/ but i wont talk about it more until the NDA is lifted

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Redraw being changed to guarantee a different card was a change done in heavensward. You also were able to "undraw" cards by using a macro /statusoff "spire drawn" etc. so you could in fact drop cards in hw. All stormblood did was add minor arcana to not fully get rid of the drawn card (and that added rng too).

There werent any charges in stormblood? charges were a shb thing. Shb was the one that wanted to reduce rng the most by making all the cards the same, and the differences for bad draws were so minimal it didnt really matter.

and now endwalker is taking back the rng mitigation from shb such as sleeve draw and the charges on redraw. and is now adding back rng damage with minor arcana and the new seal system. its effectively a step back from having less rng (which is fine imo, i dont play card games to always have the same cards)


but going back to sage...

I actually find sage to be kind of wasted potential. eucrasia only seems to affect three skills total, two of which won't even be worth using much without the eukrasia effect :/ but i wont talk about it more until the NDA is lifted

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Well the fact that they have a "Cure" and "Medica" equivalent is something we know both from the live demonstration and also because they're literally the most basic healing move that every healer has (although Scholar actually doesn't have a Medica... Their only AoE GCD is Succor).

I do wish we saw more spells being augmented by Eukrasia from what we saw in the live demonstration. Some examples that come to mind would be your AoE Dyskrasia and possibly Toxikon which could theoretically give it more value. I'd want to see more healing get affected too, but the problem is Diagnosis and Prognosis are the only GCD heals outside of Pneuma unless there are secretly more. It's difficult to come up with alternative GCD heals because they either invalidate other forms of healing (Cure II invalidates Cure I, Cure III largely invalidates Medica, though not entirely), or they're things that Eukrasia is transforming our more basic heals into (Adloquium, Succor).

As you bring, up, there's also the issue of which is better. Currently, Diagnosis and Prognosis are probably never going to get used at all outside of a Sastasha roulette. In a way, those basic heals "need" to be there, though you could probably just have them upgrade to their barrier equivalents at level 30 an no one would probably bat an eye. What kind of heals or support do you add to the GCD that warrant use over DPS at times and that have a distinct value beyond the barriers provided by E. Diagnosis and E. Prognosis?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I do wish we saw more spells being augmented by Eukrasia from what we saw in the live demonstration. Some examples that come to mind would be your AoE Dyskrasia and possibly Toxikon which could theoretically give it more value. I'd want to see more healing get affected too, but the problem is Diagnosis and Prognosis are the only GCD heals outside of Pneuma unless there are secretly more. It's difficult to come up with alternative GCD heals because they either invalidate other forms of healing (Cure II invalidates Cure I, Cure III largely invalidates Medica, though not entirely), or they're things that Eukrasia is transforming our more basic heals into (Adloquium, Succor).

As you bring, up, there's also the issue of which is better. Currently, Diagnosis and Prognosis are probably never going to get used at all outside of a Sastasha roulette. In a way, those basic heals "need" to be there, though you could probably just have them upgrade to their barrier equivalents at level 30 an no one would probably bat an eye. What kind of heals or support do you add to the GCD that warrant use over DPS at times and that have a distinct value beyond the barriers provided by E. Diagnosis and E. Prognosis?

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just off the top of my head, from the tooltips we saw in the demonstration, addersgall skills like kera/tauro/ixo/druochole would be perfect targets for eukrasia imo. yes theyre ogcd, but they could be gcds with cooldown just like pneuma is. theres also physis and physis ii which could work with a bit of changes to their effects

as it is e. diagnosis is just plainly better than diagnosis, and prognosis will rarely ever see use because we have like 5 (?) other aoe heals

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Originally Posted by QooEr

just off the top of my head, from the tooltips we saw in the demonstration, addersgall skills like kera/tauro/ixo/druochole would be perfect targets for eukrasia imo. yes theyre ogcd, but they could be gcds with cooldown just like pneuma is. theres also physis and physis ii which could work with a bit of changes to their effects

as it is e. diagnosis is just plainly better than diagnosis, and prognosis will rarely ever see use because we have like 5 (?) other aoe heals

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Seeing as we might be able to double the potency of a heal, I foresee E. Prognosis having a very valuable niche in high-end raiding actually. Imagine getting a doubly potent Succor off during savage prog, and while still having the chance to crit. Though we don't know if that will be the case for sure.