I was thinking about Monk, and still being dissapointed that they didn't remove all posiionals EXCEPT Bootshine and Dragon Kick. I like the idea of having a couple positionals, but all the time is annoying. I KNOW for a fact I am not the only one.
However rather than constantly moaning about it, I had an idea. I am fully aware it will never see the light of day, but I feel it would be a great comprimise to add ontop of the changes.
I think Snap Punch and Demolish should in fact keep their positionals but instead of providing additional damage, just crank up the damage to their positional damage and give a different positional bonus. The bonus I was thinking of would be to reduce the cooldown of Perfect Balance by 1 second. Meaning if you hit all your end of combo positionals you will get Perfect Balance off CD sooner.
I think that would be a great change personally. What do you think?
Monk Idea, no flames just ideas.
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09-24-2021, 03:02 AMNavnavMonk Idea, no flames just ideas.
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09-24-2021, 03:55 AMssunny2008
No for several reasons, even if i would like to see more impact on positionals.
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09-24-2021, 10:17 PMAndieEldritch
You only have to do a couple of steps to hit positionals, I don't understand why it's so contentious.
Default to the point where the rear and flank meet, take a step either way to gain the bonus for what you are using - Admittedly Monk was my first job so maybe I got that embedded in muscle memory now, but it doesn't seem like that big a thing to adapt to.
If you physically cannot hit the positional at that time pop True North/a Riddle of Earth.
The loss of True and Twin's positionals now gives people who don't have that habit more leeway to transition so I think it's an acceptable middle ground as 6.0 stands, losing more would just make it too similar to the other melee jobs. -
09-24-2021, 11:12 PMGarnix
They removed some. Kept some. Tried to find a decent balance to satisfy both sides of the playerbase.
And here we are...people already want them to push further before the change is even implemented...
I think that for each thread coming in to ask for positional removal someone should make a thread called "Monk Idea, keep all positionals."
Otherwise all positionals will be gone completely in two years. -
09-24-2021, 11:37 PMRamura_Sono
Monk idea: positionals on all gcds and ogcds :^)
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09-25-2021, 03:36 AMYokuboYeee baby I'd like that. By why bother when people gunna complain about a class they don't playQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono
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09-25-2021, 04:55 AMty_taurus
I'm not a monk player, and I only recently got it to level 80 (though I'm liking the look of EW Monk and want to try to keep up with it alongside my other 2 jobs I want to play). In other words, take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but having said that...
We already have 3 other--soon to be 4 other melee jobs with relatively relaxed positional requirements. Why do people feel like Monk needs to change to match that? If you don't like positionals, then just play a different melee job. Better yet, play a non-melee job since those have absolutely no positionals. I feel like one area where our community suffers is this ideology some players develop that all jobs should cater to the way they want to play. No, sir, that's not how that works. You find the jobs you enjoy the most and play those. If you don't like how Monk plays, the answer is to play something else, not ask Monk to change just so you can love it. -
09-25-2021, 06:09 AMKolsykol
Oh great, here we go again.
Another thread about this.
There doesn't need to be and shouldn't be any '' compromise ''.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navnav
People just need to accept already that not every Job is meant to appeal to them. -
09-25-2021, 06:26 AMssunny2008
Seriously guys, it´s not about making positionals useless or to get ride of them, it´s about changing their impact.
And the idea wouldn´t even be bad, when PB would stay on it´s 90s cd in the future and both skill effects would´ve an internal cooldown like "the effect can only appear once every 5s.", so noone can just stay there and spam the button to get the PB burst as fast as possible.
Stuff like that is pretty common in other games to be able to use more strong skills. It´s some kind of reward, when you perform your rotation well.
But with 6.0 it just doesn´t make sense. PB on 40s together with the "burst window" system and defined mechanics in this game won´t work well. It would definately have more impact than just 30 potency, which i would highly welcome, but in case of DPS it would be a large gap from "no positionals -> all positionals hitted". Ppl would just start to cry again and again and positionals would go finally for sure. Or they would spam those skills to get more blitz, which is absolute pointless in case of gameplay. -
09-25-2021, 06:46 AMLihtleita
I DEMAND ALL MOVES HAVE POSITIONALS EVEN THE ONES WITH NO DAMAGE
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09-25-2021, 07:26 AMMikey_R
You already have 2 positionals removed, that is your compromise. We haven't even got hands on with the new Monk and you already want to change things. I am one of the people that didn't want positionals removed, however, I am still going to see how it feels to play before making any sort of valid criticism on the changes, otherwise, it isn't fair.
So, play the new Monk, then provide feedback, if you still don't like it, then stop playing Monk and trying to ruin it for everyone else. -
09-25-2021, 07:32 AMKolsykolQuote:
Originally Posted by ssunny2008
I am biased since this was a suggestion I made but I think that Chakras should open up when you hit positionals instead of crits doing it.
At least that wouldn't mess up the rotation and it'd feel more rewarding.
Not to mention that RNG feels like ass and it'd make it not RNG and more predictable. -
09-25-2021, 08:22 AMMindiori
The only people who want positionals removed are brainless and lazy. The mechanic is already no effort at all, because of the laughably dumbed down state of jobs generally. So the fact that people want some modicum of effort to remain is hardly a surprise. I agree that this has become quite tiresome. This person pushes the same drivel every time they post on the matter and I'd normally not comment to this effect; however as someone pointed out - fail to, and heaven knows what zero IQ mess will remain in another two years time. If you can't handle the design quit your crying and play something else. Thats precisely the tone I was treated with years ago when I expressed my displeasure at simplification. I begrudgingly accepted I was the minority and was as bored as I expected as a result. So of late, I've drawn the line. If anything else gives, these jobs will be as mentally stimulating as being asleep. Without much exaggeration.
I can't imagine the hilarity of leveling from the start with the current design. They have always said FFXIV was a tad rough but one can only facepalm imagining the guy/girl who comes to the game thinking Scholar or some other neutered shell might be worth their time. I suppose skip pot sales will be through the roof. If you are allergic to effort, that is a personal problem. Not one the game should ever have been molded to cater to. -
09-25-2021, 08:29 AMAnahlise_Auhn_GiinslaiI need to see how the new Blitz mechanic functions, before I decide whether or not I like that idea... I will say that it makes me think of Warriors' Infuriate CD reduction gimmick, which functions, so that idea may or may not interest me, but I need to see how blitzes function, before I form a solid opinion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Navnav
That said, my initial thoughts are: (1) would more Blitz be fun? (2) how would this feel in a rotation? good or bad? smooth or clunky? / hence why I need to see how Blitzes function, before I reach a conclusion and come to a decision.
To be honest, while most Monk players seem to like or hate, and argue at a constant about, the positional requirements... I just do not care. I am neither for nor against, and just meet the positional requirements as much as I can. ...But this? Chakra RNG, and reliant on critical hits? That is the #1 thing that I hate the most about Monk...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
but.. I have yet to ever see that as a complaint, except for now, in the 14 Monk Threads that I have read(very small, I know); so I begin to wonder if a lot of Monk players do not have a problem with it, and feel like perhaps I should not say aught about it, out of fear that the Monk players will come after me with pitchforks and torches, like they do in the positional requirements arguments...
That said, I like the idea for the Chakra resource to come from positionals, rather than RNG(which I hate) on top of critical hit RNG, at that.. which makes me hate it even more, and it annoys me that this double RNG issue is only no longer a thing all the way up at Lv74..(-_-)..20 levels and two expansion later!(much anger) -
09-25-2021, 09:22 AMShurrikhanI don't like CDR (cooldown reduction, especially on rotational abilities) in general, especially if the job isn't intentionally built around the choice to desync from raid CDs. It's just messy and doubles down on punishment for loss of uptime while inadvertently decreasing the relative value of all other actions in a way that's just damned annoying to calculate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navnav
I also see zero reason to remove positionals from any of the skills. Unless you remove it from every skill or give a competitive option by which to manipulate when you will reach a given form, it does nothing; whether you have a non-positional in the moment you need it or not will come down entirely to luck, or at least (A) at what fraction of a second you start uptime at, (B) your GCD speed, and (C) the timings by which the boss is pushed over a mechanics-affecting %HP threshold.
Either give back low-ppm-increase formless DoTs or the likes of a two-charge GCD on a shortish cooldown that can be used for rotational adjustment and to deal with sudden boss-spins OR give a mere passive means of leniency, such as generating a stack every 20 seconds, scaling with Skill Speed, to a maximum of 3 stacks, one of which will automatically be consumed when next you miss a positional in order to make it act as if it instead landed from the correct area.
:: Also, let's get rid of positional nullification skills. Especially within a class toolkit itself, to have a mechanic the only mechanic of which is to remove another, more core, iconic, and integral mechanic... is ridiculous. A small degree of leniency, as can actually deal with unexpected boss spins, is plenty. -
09-25-2021, 09:36 AMGemina
I favor the removal of positional requirements over being given positional negation skills as non-positional bosses will ironically negate the negation skill. MNK has quite a few niche abilities, and RoE managed to put two very niche situations into a single skill. Some jobs can get away with this more than others. MNK isn't one of them.
Very much looking forward to viewing their EW tooltips. -
09-25-2021, 11:02 AMssunny2008
Give us ressource - management, priority skills and real DPS checks, then we would´ve way more possibilities in the class design, especially with stuff like cdr on X. But as long as we´re forced to play 123 with burst windows every 60/120s, nothing will evolve in kind of gameplay. Raidbuffs with 5/6/7 minutes cd only for DPS checks, meanwhile you take care for ressources again and play around different circumstances would be a dream. It wouldn´t just be like "hold everything on cooldown", it would be "play smart and get rewarded".
I don´t know... everything i read here or in tank / healer threads are the same discussions again and again. SE has lost their creativity and dumb things down, for sure. But all those discussions mostly focus about the same "issues" and "easy fixes or removals" without some real creativity. Everything is just focused on "what we have" and stupid discussion about "I like, i don´t like".
All those strict patterns in class and content designs are the real issues. We´ve no variation and no real possibilities to react to anything and in order we don´t even get anything real to take care about. And no new rotation, no new added buttons or something will solve this issue.
Get ride of MNK buffs, give him ressources back he gain with DK or Bootshine, let us care about our Dot without a strict rotation. Longer it´s duration when you play Demolish with its positional requirement, so you don´t have to refresh it so often, instead you can use hardhitters.
Yes, give us our 1s cdr on our finisher moves every 5s while using True-strike. Let it cost 6 ressources, but every time we use our finisher we get stacks which increases its damage by 10% and it´s stackable 3 times and lasts 30s. Give RoF a raidwide 20% buff for 10s with a 10min cd for DPS checks.
Or give Snap punch a passive, which let us Dot the enemy with out next 3 attacks stackable and a 20s duration. Then let us gain chakra with each 2nd tick of the Dot. And chakra might give us 3 / 20 points of our ressource back?!
Just again some brainstorming and of course we would´ve something like a rotation. But it wouldn´t be strict, it would´ve priority skill the players can adjust to the circumstances since we don´t rely on burstphases or something anymore. Maybe we do even need to adjust our DoT earlier because we failed our positional, but if we don´t, we can use one more finisher rotation? Isn´t that a great reward for playing positionals?
There are so many possibilities, if we would finally get ride of those strict patterns and maybe adding skilltrees , etc...but no... everything is getting more in line with 6.0 and ppl still complain about the same shit over and over again.