MNK: Riddle of Earth- -10% mitigation and allows for ignoring of positionals.
NIN: Shadeshift -20% HP shield
SAM: Third Eye -10% mitigation + Seigan (Counter)/Merciful Eyes (self-heal)
RPR: -10% shield+AoE regen if shield broken
There are 5 melee jobs and 4 of them have a self-mitigation tool. Why doesn't DRG have one? Bring back Keen Flurry but make it a shield or something instead of parry (so it works on magic).
P.S. The argument that DRG has higher physical defense and HP than MNK/NIN/SAM is as a reason for not having mitigation is no longer valid because RPR is also a Maiming DPS.
P.P.S Healing skills are not mitigation, Life Surge heals 10% of the DRG's max HP but it's used at rigid times in our rotation so it's never used for sustain.
P.P.S Blooodbath and Second Wind don't count either because all melee can use those anyway in addition to their unique mitigation.
P.P.P.S Elusive Jump is not mitigation because it doesn't do anything for raid-wide AoEs.
DRG mitigation action?
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09-21-2021, 03:59 AMJonnycbadDRG mitigation action?
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09-21-2021, 06:11 PMKahnom
Do we really need it tho ?
MNK and SAM using sklls you mention for sustain DPS.
Nin has no reason to even use Shadeshift in the first place.
Drg have higher HP than other melees so I think we already got build-in mitigation. -
09-21-2021, 06:41 PMRongway
Just kill it faster and you won't need a defensive cooldown.
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09-21-2021, 08:15 PMRamura_Sono
DRG already gets higher physical defense. That's all the mitigation you get! >:I
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09-23-2021, 10:08 PMJonnycbad>Drg have higher HP than other melees so I think we already got build-in mitigationQuote:
Originally Posted by Kahnom
You know Reaper is ALSO on Maiming gear AND has a mitigation skill right? Also regarding the higher HP of DRG, if you read the OP is less than a 1% difference in HP. With food, my i530 DRG has 149k, MNK has about 1200 HP difference. <1% -
09-23-2021, 10:10 PMJonnycbadQuote:
DRG already gets higher physical defense. That's all the mitigation you get! >:I
Did you read OP?
1) DRG has higher PHYSICAL defense only than other melee DPS, by comparison, MNK SAM and NIN have higher MAGIC Defense than DRG, so that argument is moot, especially because MOST raid damage is magical.
2) Reaper uses Maiming gear, so they have the same Physical DEF/HP as DRG, AND they get their own Mitigation Skill "Arcane Crest". -
09-23-2021, 10:40 PMGarnix
I think that's a fair question/request.
Not needed, but fair. -
09-23-2021, 11:53 PMSpeckledBurdThat hasn't been true since ARR. Dragoon's magic defense is equal to the other Melee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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09-24-2021, 01:33 AMJonnycbad
Fair but it still stands, Reaper has maiming gear and has self mitigation
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09-24-2021, 06:04 AMKahnomI believe you haven’t explain why you need mitigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
Let us here your reason and It better be reasonable. -
09-24-2021, 12:07 PMLeonus
Drgs have an AoE crit skill. Why doesn't reaper have one? They share the same armor and HP.
Where does it end? -
09-24-2021, 12:13 PMMagiusNecros
Personally Dragoon should have a jump that puts them offscreen for 10seconds to do big attack and dodge all the shit. Even raidwide damage. Or just give iframes during any jump attack.
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09-24-2021, 08:49 PMJonnycbadFalse equivalency my dude. Every melee has a mitigation except drg.Quote:
Drgs have an AoE crit skill. Why doesn't reaper have one? They share the same armor and HP.
Where does it end?
That said, Nin can Bunshin their AoE for double, SAM has Kaiten to boost their AoE, idk what Mnk has in 6.0, can't comment and we don't know reaper's full kit. -
09-24-2021, 09:02 PMRongwayIt's not a false equivalency. If your only argument is "every melee job has X", it easily extends to "if one melee job has Y, why doesn't every other melee job?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
You have yet to state a reason that DRG should have a mitigation action that is deeper than "every melee has one". What part of their role responsibilities can they not fulfill effectively because they lack a personal defensive cooldown? None. What role responsibilities can other melee jobs perform more effectively because of their personal defensive cooldowns that leaves DRG wanting? None.
If you are solo, the answer is to kill your target faster. If you are in a party, the answer is to avoid the avoidable and let your healers heal the rest. A personal defensive cooldown does not change the outcome of any situation where you have done everything right. If a personal defensive cooldown makes a difference, it will be in a situation where someone did something wrong, whether that's you or another party member of any role; and the answer in that case is someone should do better. -
09-24-2021, 09:47 PMMindiori
Lol. Heaven forbid someone have something that someone else doesn't. I'm almost certain this place gets more pathetic by the day.
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09-24-2021, 10:18 PMBaxcel
Feint?
/10chars -
09-25-2021, 07:11 AMJonnycbadEvery melee has feint. Every melee also had something else besides feint, except drg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxcel
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09-25-2021, 07:12 AMJonnycbad
DRG had Keen Flurry and they took it away in SB
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09-25-2021, 07:25 AMlulunami
DRG has Life Surge. They have the best self-healing capabilities of any melee job. Also be happy that DRG finally has more magical defense on armor than crafters and gatherers, which was not always the case.
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09-25-2021, 09:32 AMShurrikhanDRG: <Wears thicker armor and has a self-heal>Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
...Not that every job needs to have the same narrow capacity as every other job, so long as there's something duly compensatory. There's more than enough homogenization as is.
Also, it looks like Seigan and Merciful Eyes may already have gotten the axe. -
09-25-2021, 09:53 AMRyaz
What do you mean? DRG are the best floor tanks in the game!
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09-25-2021, 12:39 PMKahnom
I knew it that this thread is gonna end up wasting my time and it really did.
Maybe the OP purposely did not provide the reason because it’s very obvious that his reason won’t hold enough weight to win this arguement in the first place.
Asking for migitation as DPS is a troll, everyone knows that.
I kinda expect high quality trolling but OP disappointed me.
Next troll, please. -
09-26-2021, 01:48 PMJonnycbadSigh nobody reads the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Reaper *clap* has *clap* maiming gear *clap* -
09-26-2021, 04:26 PMShurrikhanQuote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
You *clap* seem to *clap* have missed *clap* a fair bit, yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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09-26-2021, 04:52 PMDoru_Nintendan
Answer is simple. Look at Estinien. You think a man like him would've thought "maybe I should cast my mitigation BEFORE jumping into a massive Garlean cannon to save the WoL and Alphinaud?" No, cuz he's stubborn and reckless when it comes to engaging the enemy. Dragoons are well known for LITERALLY jumping into the fray of battle, especially against DRAGONS, who probably would just be able to tear though most armor with ease.
If that doesn't help you, then consider this. BLM has the same Casting gear as SMN and RDM, yet they don't have a resurrection spell like the others. Why is that? Because IT GOES AGAINST WHAT BLACK MAGES ARE KNOWN FOR, and homogenizes it, which people hate a lot. Dragoon having a mitigation goes against what Dragoons are known for, and it would homogenize the melee DPS jobs further, which would make people think less of them. -
09-27-2021, 09:17 AMAelin_Ashryver
Yes.. more homogenisation.. just what we need. Screw any differences between jobs. DRG gets so much love from devs as it is. Mitigation is not needed at all.
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09-27-2021, 01:13 PMJonnycbadNothing you say makes any sense because DRG had Keen FlurryQuote:
Originally Posted by Doru_Nintendan
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Keen_Flurry -
09-27-2021, 02:08 PMShurrikhanTechnically, Lancer did, as a holdover from when Lancer was a makeshift tank alongside Gladiator (snap-/counter-/skill-block-tank), Marauder (high threat, high passive-eHP tank), and sometimes Pugilist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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09-27-2021, 07:13 PMDoru_NintendanAnd they got rid of it, right? I wasn't even aware that LNC had a mitigation ability at all, until you mentioned it. If they removed it, there's probably a reason for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
But that doesn't matter, because you still have yet to give a legitimate reason as to why DRG "NEEDS" a mitigation. You say it's because "REAPER HAS MAIMING GEAR AND A MITIGATION, SO DRAGOON SHOULD GET ONE TOO", but again, that would be homogenization. You're asking SE to take away what small class identify we have, all for a tool that ain't really gonna be used as often as you think it would, nor for the reason you think it should be used for. RoE is just another way for MNKs to use positionals easier, Third Eye is used for the combo skill for more DPS for SAM, and to my knowledge and DF/PF experience, NIN barely use Shade Shift at all.
At this point, it seems like you are either trolling waaaaay too hard, or you have the most ridiculous sense of OCD over one skill type. DRG don't get mitigation, who cares in the end? If it bothers you that much, play a different Melee DPS job entirely, or maybe talk to DRG mains and see why they play the job, even without mitigation. -
09-29-2021, 03:32 AMssunny2008Seriously it wouldn´t matter in any way. This is not a real PvP game, leveling phase is lame and raids are so built that everyone gets pretty much the same damage, just with different math in the background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver
As long as raids aren´t build with different mechanics or multiple bosses, where DPS classes have to tank / kite something or so, noone of them needs any medigation tools, different HP / armor or magical defense. It doesn´t look like homogenisation on the classes, but it´s made by the raid-math anyway... -
09-29-2021, 06:49 AMKolsykol
I wish I had Elusive Jump... I'd take that over 10% mitigation.