Does this constitute harassment?

I'm a new player. I've been leveling all my DoH/DoLs so I can be self sufficient. I don't run out and farm everything because I don't have time to play all week. This winds up getting very expensive.

I find an item that I can craft for 1k and sell for 100k that's apparently used as a glamor item. I throw one one the mb and try selling another in shout chat. Someone else sees it and mentions undercutting me. I ask him not to because I'm trying to make up losses from leveling DoH stuff.

He comes by and waves at me, I check the mb a bit later and he's flooded it with like 15 of that item for 10k/each.

I don't consider undercutting harassment, but this is fully intentional to bother someone. [context in the conversation, not posting in full] Someone who's already established screwing over someone who's getting started and making it impossible for them to buy them out. These items sell less than 2 a day.

I don't believe it count as harassment.
And as an advice don't ever /shout what you sell, if people need this item they will search for it on the MB and buy it.

You're going to be undercut. Try not to mention what sells to other players, because of course they'll try to make bank.

This isn't about being undercut per se, this is about someone intentionally flooding the market on a specific item with the express intent not to make money, but to bother someone.

Since he taunted you in chat about it it's pretty obvious his intent was to harass you specifically. Intent to harass is the line where any action that would normally be legal becomes illegal.

He was stupid enough to give you evidence of his intent in chat, so if you want to then report him and send the chat log.

As a general rule just post things you want to sell on the MB, though. Don't use chat.

yeah, if they harassed you in chat, report them.

do not advertise in chat, thats done in other games, not here. people will see it, check the pricing, and if they can make money at it.. they will, often by flooding the market.

if you find something you can make money with, just make it and post it on the MB, thats the best way.

That’s not nice no, I can imagine that felt crappy. I have no experience with reporting so no advice there. I just wanted to say that esp crafting and gathering gear sell nicely usually, and I’ve found them a very reliable source of gil. They are not as valuable but you’ll sell more of them, and more easily I think. It adds up quickly I’ve noticed. Maybe it helps out a bit :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nishira

That’s not nice no, I can imagine that felt crappy. I have no experience with reporting so no advice there. I just wanted to say that esp crafting and gathering gear sell nicely usually, and I’ve found them a very reliable source of gil. They are not as valuable but you’ll sell more of them, and more easily I think. It adds up quickly I’ve noticed. Maybe it helps out a bit :)

---

i'll look into that, thanks

if they taunted you in chat with the intent to undercut like that, then came by and did an emote that was also recorded in the chat log... then yes, I believe you have grounds to report them. Bear in mind though, SE doesn't report results to you afterwards, so you'll just be doing it for your own peace of mind and move on.

Only if capitalism counts as harassment...


Unless they seem to make a point of consistently targeting you and you only, in which case it is called cyberstalking and can get them nailed to a withered tree in the desert sun if caught.

OP, it's not harassment in of itself, but if they are bullying you, you can/should report that.

1) The Market Board is a lot like the stock market. Or fight club. You don't talk about fight club. (or rather, you don't share/tip others on something that's making you money).
2) Rename your retainers, and don't tell people who they are or what you sell in specifics. Keep anonymity.
3) Don't put everything into 1 thing, and don't really trust items with a small amount on sale to keep their price.
4) Consider consumables. Things like dye.
5) You can also just buy stuff from NPCs nearby and resell for a profit. This takes a bit of homework, but it's more profitable than actual gathering in most cases. Something that's 10g from an NPC can easily be 1,000g on MB.
6) Consider time efficiency:

Quote:

---

Scenario A
-Teleport Fees: -1,000g (assuming several locales for mats; going with a round 1,000g for ease)
-Time spent gathering everything: 50 min (searching google for location, travel time, etc)
-Value of gathered mats on MB: 5,000g
-Time spent crafting: 10 min
-Final Product value on MB: 25,000g (I am assuming a price for like a bed or glamour or something)
——
Total Profits: 24,000g/hour

---

Quote:

---

Scenario B
-Buy the materials outright: -5,000g
-Time spent crafting: 10 min
-Final Product value on MB: 25,000g (I am assuming a price for like a bed or glamour or something)
——
Total Profits: 120,000g/hour (if you made 6 sets to do the full hour)

---

Nope, also don't mention things your selling on MB unless you want to be uncut. MB is all about uncutting and price wars. Try more broad range of items to sell from easy NPC to more valuable items. All npcs items list their sale prices so its just up to you to find them to resell them. You can also follow in demand items for quick profit. And whatever you do, don't forget to check the history.

Please don't advertise items you want to sell in chat. No one wants to see that. Can you imagine if every player did that?

The other player who made a point to undercut you, probably only did it because they felt you deserved it for using /shout chat for hawking your wares. It sounds like they were being a petty, immature, vindictive jerk about it -- but I don't think what they did was against the rules either. If you're allowed to announce your sales, they are allowed to announce they will sell for cheaper. They are allowed to wave at you. They are allowed to respond to you. If they used offensive language or something of that nature, it might be a different story. But I don't think anything will come of reporting them. My advice is to just use the Market Board like everybody else and leave any chat channels out of the equation.

No no no, don't listen to these other guys.

If someone starts undercutting you for any reason, even if it's something that doesn't sell very often, you respond by finding literally any and every item their retainer is selling that might have been crafted by them, and violently undercut them in a fit of unfathomable rage. And the second you so much as catch a whiff of your item being sold, just immediately list an item back up, exactly 1 gil underneath their price. Rinse and repeat for months on end until they finally give up and leave the market board in shame. And when they do, send them a nice little /t saying "I knew you would give up eventually :)".

I'm totally not speaking from experience by the way, nope not at all.

Player A abuses lack of knowledge of players x y n z
Player B abuses ego of player A
Player A is poor victim
Player B is a monster
Players x y n z are ignored cos who cares about morality of player A.

So buy his 15 and resell at 100 if that's really the going rate. I don't see the problem.

The most I can say is you can report them with what is given, but you'll never know if anything was done towards the person. SE operates from a punish and no tell approach.

But as others have said, don't advertise what you have on the MB as it will only encourage others that might see said item up there and adjust accordingly to facilitate their sale over yours or put items up in hopes to cash in as well.

I don't have the gil for that and the items don't sell fast enough for me to consider that even if I did
this was completely out of malice

Unfortunately, while it's not nice to taunt you over it, you don't know that he isn't intending to make money too. After all you said yourself these items cost 1k to make, so there's 9k profit per item for him.

Best advice is never use /shout to advertise sales. Especially for an easy to make, low demand item with a 99k profit margin. You couldn't have picked a more fragile market, so you don't want other sellers realizing it. Crafting is in a tough spot right now regarding gil making, since everyone has a crafter this expansion and bots are rampant so supply has gone through the roof while demand has dropped. People are constantly searching for niche markets to squeeze profit from.

I wouldn't bother reporting. Someone else would have crashed the price on an item like that within a week. Lesson learned, sorry to hear something like that happened and move on. Best of luck with future sales.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarmaniLink

I'm a new player. I've been leveling all my DoH/DoLs so I can be self sufficient. I don't run out and farm everything because I don't have time to play all week. This winds up getting very expensive.

I find an item that I can craft for 1k and sell for 100k that's apparently used as a glamor item. I throw one one the mb and try selling another in shout chat. Someone else sees it and mentions undercutting me. I ask him not to because I'm trying to make up losses from leveling DoH stuff.

He comes by and waves at me, I check the mb a bit later and he's flooded it with like 15 of that item for 10k/each.

I don't consider undercutting harassment, but this is fully intentional to bother someone. [context in the conversation, not posting in full] Someone who's already established screwing over someone who's getting started and making it impossible for them to buy them out. These items sell less than 2 a day.

---

As others mentioned. It's better to sell it on Marketboard without shouting to avoid getting unnecessary attention from unwanted ( excuse of.... ) players who have no life but have an unfortunate surplus of gil that would have been a lot better with literally any other player.
And please if possible do show these types of players when possible how their behaviors and attitudes are... not welcomed here. Without harassing of course!
As someone who sells in Marketboard every single day and deals with a lot of items. I know it's painful to wait for days or the duration of a week to sell some items. The purchase history should give you an insight on how long does it take to sell ( And the quantity as well ) so any item that does take a lot of time to sell with little to no value is not worth selling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lenivy

Player A abuses lack of knowledge of players x y n z
Player B abuses ego of player A
Player A is poor victim
Player B is a monster
Players x y n z are ignored cos who cares about morality of player A.

---

But what about players c, d, e, and f?

Player A abuses lack of knowledge of players c d e f x y n z
Player B abuses ego of player A and C
Player X talked smack about A and B
Player A C F Y are poor victims
Players N Z A B C E F went to get burgers
Player B is a monster
Player F is a helicopter
Player D was ignored, now isn't ignored
Players x y n z are ignored cos who cares about morality of player A
Player A and B now conspire against F, X, Y and D
Player D is sad
Players G K M and W want to know why they weren't included.

=P

Lot of y'all not getting it... Undercutting, not harassment.

Announcing you're going to undercut, aggressively undercutting with multiple items, then finding the person to gloat about it... that's harassment.

Like if the person that undercut saw OP's shout, was curious about it, checked MB, had any number of thoughts about why they're going to aggressively undercut to themselves and just did it and afterwards went about their day without tracking down the OP to gloat... then no harassment occurs. Even if in their heart of hearts and secret thoughts of their minds eye they're doing it to teach the OP "a lesson" about shouting.


Like I can't accurately recall how many times I've been Rescue'd to my death anymore... but I acknowledge that most of those times were probably mistakes, even if no apology was explicitly typed in chat afterward. Except for two instances I did report for griefing: One, because the healer Rescue'd me into AoE zones multiple times through the course of the duty and did /chuckle or /laugh in chat log each time and Two, because the healer used rescue as they actively jumped off the side of the arena while no mechanics were occurring, which then dragged me with them.

It's that extra oomph that pushes it on over into harassment territory. So as long things actually played out they way OP claims, then I think they can and should report the incident. And again, like I mentioned in my earlier post, and has been mentioned by others, SE doesn't tell you the results. You file a report mostly for your own peace of mind and move on with your day.

Yeah, I found the person that undercut me on some random item that wasn't even selling well. Yeah, I found nearly every item they were selling and undercut them for months on end. Yeah, I bullied them off the market board.

And I'll friggin do it again.

Undercut all the undercutters. Lets hold hands all the way down the bottom.

Your mistake. You shouldn't try to sell an item on the chat. The chat isn't for that.
The other player? Two things. One, he was angry for your ad and gave you a lesson. Two, he could be balancing the price because he thinks you're taking advantage from the people.
If you spend only 1k for the item, just move on and keep crafting and selling.
I'm a crafter too, sell for big profits too and undercuts happens all the time.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose... you don't cry over business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaLTRaiN

Your mistake. You shouldn't try to sell an item on the chat. The chat isn't for that.
The other player? Two things. One, he was angry for your ad and gave you a lesson. Two, he could be balancing the price because he thinks you're taking advantage from the people.

---

I think shouting an advertisement was a bad idea, and as a crafter who plays the marketboard I fully expect that I'll get undercut on stuff.

But I also think tracking the OP down to taunt them about the undercutting is where it went from "typical marketboard shenanigans" to "this probably counts as harassment".

Anyone else really want to k own what he was selling?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarmaniLink

I'm a new player. I've been leveling all my DoH/DoLs so I can be self sufficient. I don't run out and farm everything because I don't have time to play all week. This winds up getting very expensive.

I find an item that I can craft for 1k and sell for 100k that's apparently used as a glamor item. I throw one one the mb and try selling another in shout chat. Someone else sees it and mentions undercutting me. I ask him not to because I'm trying to make up losses from leveling DoH stuff.

He comes by and waves at me, I check the mb a bit later and he's flooded it with like 15 of that item for 10k/each.

I don't consider undercutting harassment, but this is fully intentional to bother someone. [context in the conversation, not posting in full] Someone who's already established screwing over someone who's getting started and making it impossible for them to buy them out. These items sell less than 2 a day.

---

Its a a hole thing but its a free market economy. Example Sony announces they are selling head phones for 300 bucks. A Company in China makes a cheap knock off and sells it for 50 bucks on Amazon. Sony is mad about it but what can they do? It's the same thing you're going to get undercut. You can't really provide a higher quality item than HQ and you can't provide better customer service in a video game. All you can do is keep your mouth shut in chat and cancel sell anyone under cutting you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarmaniLink

I don't have the gil for that and the items don't sell fast enough for me to consider that even if I did
this was completely out of malice

---

When I want to make bank on an item... I'm going to be throwing up like 5-10 of an item, and do it at once. If that's what you're seeing, then you shot yourself in the foot by shouting about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarmaniLink

I'm a new player. I've been leveling all my DoH/DoLs so I can be self sufficient. I don't run out and farm everything because I don't have time to play all week. This winds up getting very expensive.

I find an item that I can craft for 1k and sell for 100k that's apparently used as a glamor item. I throw one one the mb and try selling another in shout chat. Someone else sees it and mentions undercutting me. I ask him not to because I'm trying to make up losses from leveling DoH stuff.

He comes by and waves at me, I check the mb a bit later and he's flooded it with like 15 of that item for 10k/each.

I don't consider undercutting harassment, but this is fully intentional to bother someone. [context in the conversation, not posting in full] Someone who's already established screwing over someone who's getting started and making it impossible for them to buy them out. These items sell less than 2 a day.

---

He sounds like an idiot but one thing I would say, if you find an item with a mark up like that, keep very quiet about it and just make the money. As soon as word gets out the market would be flooded with them and the price will tank anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Packetdancer

But I also think tracking the OP down to taunt them about the undercutting is where it went from "typical marketboard shenanigans" to "this probably counts as harassment".

---

Since when did waving at someone becoming taunting and harassment? That easily could have just been a thank you for the tip on a profit making opportunity.

Honestly, if anyone is in the wrong here it was the OP. He shouldn't have approached the other player telling them not to sell the same item, acting like he's got the moral high ground ripping off other players just because he's new to the game.

Most of us were new to the game at one point and had to compete against established players that could sell for less. We still managed to carve out our place in the markets and make a lot of gil without pulling the "you can't sell that because I'm a new player and need the gil more" pity plea.

Yeah, anyone advocating for reports of harassment because of a /wave in this situation needs a reality check. Even in the OP, with all the bias inherent in a post like that, there is nothing that would constitute harassment. Live and learn, and get over yourself.

As someone who primarily crafts in game, never, ever reveal your cards by shouting what you're crafting, because someone will immediately flood the market just to spite you.

More bothersome is the 1 gil undercutters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

More bothersome is the 1 gil undercutters.

---

It works though, and it isn't griefing. I mean people could undercut by more, but 1gil less gets you a fast sale either way.

Is it harassment?
Is it not harassment?
We can kick around the question but what we may think is unimportant. Report them if you feel harassed and let the GMs decide if it is or not.

I don't think it can be considered harassment. You know there is world visit which most likely another server will be selling the item for way less than yours. So if you don't check all the servers prices and history before listing you will be undercut by ones on other servers.