So everyone 'forgot' the Warriors of Light (as they called them) who died at Carteneau.
Does anyone have any theories as to how widespread this memory loss was? I've always presumed it was somehow connected to the bright light - the vast flood of aether? - that is all anyone can remember, but in my head that's always implied it had to be localised. Within a few malms of the Battle at any rate. But obviously everyone in Eorzea seems to have 'forgotten' (by forgotten, I mean that names and faces are gone, but folk still know the WoLs existed) so that makes it more widespread. Is it more widespread even than that? Worldwide?
Of course it's not canon that the current WoL was at Carteneau (is it canon?) but if they were, no one does remember them (except Minfilia and Cid). Gaius doesn't remember them. Ifrit and Garuda don't remember them (although how much primals recall of previous incarnations is a whole other question). If they are Auri, say, or Viera, do their families who were (possibly) not in Eorzea remember them?
Also what did cause the memory loss. Was it the surfeit of aether raised by Bahamut and Louisoix? Or something else?
The Forgotten WoLs
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08-25-2021, 05:22 AMElladieThe Forgotten WoLs
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08-25-2021, 07:15 AMAnonymoose
The explanations for this ebbed and flowed with need at the time, as the real reason was just "it'll be easier for everyone if the NPCs talk the same about 1.0 players and new players at least 95%of the time," lol. Eorzeans sometimes try to make sense of it as general "aetheric distrubance" and players sometimes try to work the Rejoining itself into it, but I've never really tried to reach deeper into the unknown aetherometaphysics of it because the magicks Louisoix wrought replicated the supposed powers of Althyk, the god of time and space. That alone seems like a set-up for "if you rip someone out their place in time and space with no plan for where they go or how to put them back, it might have unforeseen effects" like that.
Though now that you mention it watching Banri Oda-san try to weave an explanation for precisely why people forgot things when Louisoix messed with spacetime but not when a certain Exarch did it would probably make for some entertainment. -
08-25-2021, 07:32 AMRyuDragnierBanri Oda-san: "Alexander" *drops mic*Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-25-2021, 07:34 AMAnonymooseAhaha, that does sound like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
"Alexander and Omega are capable of precise calculations and predictions which lessen the risk of aetherotemporal mnemenic disturbance. Louisoix was one dude just winging it in the moment. It's amazing it even worked for him, to be honest." -
08-25-2021, 02:38 PMRannie
Hmmm that actually reminds me of something with us 1.0 legacy players after we meet up with Gaius again (after we defeat him at the praetoreum that is) does he mention at anytime the first times we came up against him in 1.0? I mean I know the first time was pretty much inconsequential to him, but after we fought Van Darnus he goes out of his way to come speak to us while we were running around praying at the stones for each of the 12... I can't seem to remember if he did or not, I know they go out of their way for us at the end of 2.0 with all the GC leaders and Scions remembering....
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08-25-2021, 11:15 PMCatapultAlternatively, perhaps it only worked for Louisoix because it was guided by his primal power of rebirth, and that same power of rebirth's guidance biases towards things starting over from the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-26-2021, 12:43 AMVeloran
Given the amnesia didn't seem to affect Minfilia in particular, and that it appears Hydaelyn is the one who undoes it for everyone else, I would assume that she also was the one who did it to begin with.
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08-26-2021, 12:44 AMIscahSounds like a perfectly legitimate argument to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-26-2021, 01:58 AMRyuDragnierI believe she originally did it to protect our identity from the Ascians and the Garleans who may try to bumrush us the second they realized we were back. Do you (general question, not directed at you) really think Gaius would want the one who killed Nael (even though he wanted Nael dead) running around knowing full well how powerful they were and how easily they could get in the way of conquest? Or that Lahabrea wouldn't immediately try to get rid of one of Hydaelyn's champions before they were strong enough to fight back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
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08-26-2021, 03:47 AMICountFrom0Well... he wasn't just "one dude" at that moment, he'd consumed enough aether to make himself into a very specific primal.... one that was just timeless enough to pull it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-26-2021, 05:01 AMElladieI don't believe Louisoix was a primal at that point, he was still 'just' Louisoix when he cast that spell (or whatever it was). The primal thing happened a few seconds later when everything 'exploded' in the huge, fiery light thing. As I said in the OP, I assumed the huge, fiery light thing was what wiped people's memories, but I much prefer the idea of aetherotemporal mnemenic disturbance. That would make sense of a general inclination to forget 'stuff'Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
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08-26-2021, 08:00 AMICountFrom0
How about both?
The explosion is the landing, the moment when people are driven through time, and the brief second of the phoenix existing. All of it, the same spell, same effect, all at once.
He took all the power that would have saved the world, drew it into himself, ascended, tossed those away that he could save, turned everybody within his reach, made everybody forget, and the forgetfulness passed into the aethir like a wave as he let go of the power, and in turn was taken by behamut. World not saved, but reborn in that instant. -
08-27-2021, 07:54 AMElladieBut he didn't, unfortunately. In the cinematic he is clearly just plain old Louisoix when he blips out Derplander and Derplander's friends and sends them into the future. Then we cut to the massive fiery explosion and Louisoix's sad smile as everything goes 'boom!' At some point after that he becomes Phoenix and reimprisons Bahamut but isn't strong enough to resist being tempered by the Elder primal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
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08-27-2021, 07:56 AMICountFrom0
Cinematics... you mean, "memories of the past that arn't necessarily correct due to shenanigan's?"
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08-27-2021, 09:15 PMElladieI mean the cinematic that followed the final day of XIV 1.5 when the servers shut down. As far as I'm aware, that's intended to be an accurate representation of what occurred before the final 'fade to black'. It's not anyone's memories, it's an omniscient narrative perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
But if we're going to argue that we can't trust any cutscene in the game - in the same way we don't trust trailers, because shenanigans - it becomes pointless to see anything in the game as canon since SE can retcon anything they like. For the moment, I will continue to say that Louisoix sent the WoL wherever he thought he was sending them - through time, through space or wherever - before he became Phoenix. Currently the evidence - that cinematic - supports my argument -
08-27-2021, 09:40 PMJandor
I always assumed everyone forgot who exactly they were because they had been plucked out of the timeline. People remembered the feats, but drew a blank as to who exactly did them, because they technically didn't exist anymore. Maybe.
Dropping them back in would restore the memory, although apparently with a bit of lag, presumably it takes a bit of time for them to mesh back in properly?
I dunno, sounds plausible enough to me.