Lack of pve content

We had 3 savages and 1 ultimates, which is equivalent to 1 week + 5 days prog (I assume TEA is 1 week prog), I will round to 2 week prog

2 week prog in Wow is 2 Mythical raids, they have 3-4 mythical raids (without even considering Heroic raids) per extension

Why such lack of pve content ? for a MMORPG that want to become better/the #1 :p

(I still consider FF14 better than WOW overall, but this lack of pve content is a bit upsetting)

FF14 isn't about end-game raids ,never has been. It's side content at best, just like PvP.

You're playing the wrong game.

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Why such lack of pve content ? for a MMORPG that want to become better/the #1

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Because 90% - 95% of players don't care about savages, ultimates, etc. ?

As TTiscancer said, you should play another MMO if you want big PvE contents.

When did FFXIV Devs say they wanted to be #1? Yoshi-P said in an interview he does NOT want to be compared to WoW, and understands that FFXIV will probably never have the same number of subscribers. He’s okay with that.

There is no end of PVE content to do, for example, the crafters in this expac built an ENTIRE CITY

We went in, saw the wreckage left by the War, by the time we were done Ishgard had not only been Restored, but a new player housing district had been created.

I have never ever had the chance to be part of something this epic and absolutely uplifting.. ( God alone knows we need a few things to make us smile and laugh at the moment...we will be locked down till October and each day is harder than the last....:()

FF 14 isnt about raids and savages alone.

Wait....Savage and Ultimates are the only PvE content?
I thought that dungeons, EX trials, Bozja, hunt trains and even treasure maps were all PvE content.
Did I misunderstand what PvE means? :p

They don't focus on raiding as the main content for end game.


Becomes one of the top dog mmorpgs.



The age of raid or die mmorpgs are done. Not focus on raiding as end game content has saved this game.

FF14 ist not a "raid-or-die"-game.


Cheers

This expansion was an exception. It's usually 3 tiers and 2 ultimate. Might even become 3 ultimate with the wow crowd rolling in. We'll have to see.
I also don't really know how you're calculating prog time? Going to assume you're talking in time played or at least entire full days of prog. And that's if you're in the upper tier of players. You're also forgetting other pve content like eureka, gangos stuff, deep dungeons, extreme fights.

But regardless, FF14 is not aiming to beat wow, the director stated so very clearly. They also don't want you to spend all your time playing FF14 so they make sure that the endgame content is bite-sized and gives you your time back to play other games. Hell, the devs would be more than happy for you to play wow during your downtime, they do.
On top of that FF14's definition of endgame is much broader than wow. No more pve content to go through? Pick your poison > solo deep dungeons? That's potentially weeks of prog. Old content min-ilvl no echo? leveling all your jobs? crafting/gathering? housing? chocobo breading? Relic grinds? glam? mounts? minions? BLU raiding and arena? and the worst part is that I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Not to mention that you might want to farm ultimate for all the weapons or savage for BiS on multiple jobs?

There's a lot to do. I've been disappointed with the content this patch, we were missing quite more than just 1 ultimate. And I've voiced as such on these very forums, but the idea that they would need to double the content of high-level raids to "compete" against wow is misplaced imo.

You have 4 expansions of PvE content and in a few months another one. This game does not lack PvE content at all. And don't get me started on crafting as well as relic weapon/armor grinds.

Plus most of the old trial and raid content can be done rather easily in PUGs.

If anything I think the game lacks in the PvP scene if anything.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

We had 3 savages and 1 ultimates, which is equivalent to 1 week + 5 days prog (I assume TEA is 1 week prog), I will round to 2 week prog

2 week prog in Wow is 2 Mythical raids, they have 3-4 mythical raids (without even considering Heroic raids) per extension

Why such lack of pve content ? for a MMORPG that want to become better/the #1 :p

(I still consider FF14 better than WOW overall, but this lack of pve content is a bit upsetting)

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MMO's don't live or die by their raid content you know?

Let's see.

A handful of 80s. That's good.

Elemental level 1 - so no clears on BA, that's something you can pursue. I'm assuming you've cleared Bozjda? If not go there for some additional content. Both of those have their own progression system seperate from Raiding - but they're good PVE content with their own interesting systems.

If you're looking for a Challenge, you can go for clears of Deep Dungeon or Heaven on High - both can be done solo with some of the jobs you already have leveled.

Your doggo and dragon collection is lacking, so Extremes of either or are still on the table for you.

Blue Mage isn't even unlocked - that's even more fights for you, though those are exclusively solo. If you're missing things like elemental mechanics, those exist in the Masked Carnival.

So it looks like you still have lots and lots of PvE content to do - FFXIV isn't lacking at all for it. What seems to be lacking is your scope of gameplay.

This stuff may not be relevant to your ilvl, but I guarantee you that your ilvl will be irrelevant come November. At best you'll get through the second new story dungeon with the absolute BIS you have. As far as goals and challenges, FFXIV has plenty, but it's not about gear-score progression or about being inaccessible to all but the most hardcore of players. But there ARE challenges out there that will require time and dedication, if you're looking for that.

You just have to actually look.

Lynx made the PERFECT and I mean perfect video response to this criticism. 15min video that goes over every single point you listed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KtLjdlaRw&t=859s

For haters guys if you are not interested in doing it why are you posting here even?
I do not think it is something to get upset about when someone wants more from devs.

Not everyone has to enjoy same things as you do.
How you can even live and say nah i dont like X so you cant have/like more of it.

Never understood this why not wanting more and more for everyone.
So toxic some of you here someone wants to live in Final Fantasy going on adventure beating enemies get fancy gear!

You cant have it........" we got crafting as your pve content" , when they start flexing crafting on trailers then you might have point.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

For haters guys if you are not interested in doing it why are you posting here even?
I do not think it is something to get upset about when someone wants more from devs.

Not everyone has to enjoy same things as you do.
How you can even live and say nah i dont like X so you cant have/like more of it.

Never understood this why not wanting more and more for everyone.

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Because it takes development time i'm guessing.

Wow developers said it best. Sure we can give you what you want, but it will cost you a raid tier. MMORPG community took that to heart, and now any content gets asked that a player does not want or care for in the game. Will fight tooth and nail to say no, because they feel as if that content will come at the cost of other content.


And they could very well be right.

You cant even quote and sources your post.
And that is just making excuses who makes money can make more content.

And you all are "whiteknighting" developers excuses behind wanting more.

And it perfectly serves devs.

Poeple wanting more of X : We want more!

People of Y : No or we dont get our things we want!

Devs laughing at them fighting between them while doing bare minimum of content despite claiming growth and making more money.

And if you cant see that ....... then.

This game's endgame isn't really about progression and power creep like a lot of MMORPGs. It's mainly about getting all the prettiest mounts, minions, glamours, housing, etc. to show off. To that end the PvE content in this game is pretty much endless, because old content never becomes irrelevant and the reward structure for every system in this game feeds into that.

If you play this like a progression MMORPG and nothing else, however, then yea there's not much.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Because it takes development time i'm guessing.

Wow developers said it best. Sure we can give you what you want, but it will cost you a raid tier. MMORPG community took that to heart, and now any content gets asked that a player does not want or care for in the game. Will fight tooth and nail to say no, because they feel as if that content will come at the cost of other content.


And they could very well be right.

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One raid tier to create content that is self sustaining would do WoW a large amount of good right about now. Personally if I were Blizzard I would immediately make the darkmoon faire 24 hours a day and drop 6 devs on it just creating new content for casuals because they are bleeding that player base HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD right now.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

One raid tier to create content that is self sustaining would do WoW a large amount of good right about now. Personally if I were Blizzard I would immediately make the darkmoon faire 24 hours a day and drop 6 devs on it just creating new content for casuals because they are bleeding that player base HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD right now.

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Oh I agree, it was a quote I think during the MOP time? It was years ago, when players was not happy with the selfie patch, and the content quality was dropping. A developer just came out and said that. And the rest is history. It became a meme, and now it add fuel to the fire of casuals non players vs raiders. Both sides fight each other feeling as content coming to the game cost them something. Heck we had it in this forum with the bunny boys thread lol.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

You cant even quote and sources your post.
And that is just making excuses who makes money can make more content.

And you all are "whiteknighting" developers excuses behind wanting more.

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You really do not understand software development, time management, personnel management, nor money management. Throwing money at things doesn't mean they will get completed faster nor even get completed. Time, manpower, and money are limited. This means that if you are working at max capacity you either pull people from other projects, effectively slowing other areas, push everything back effectively giving yourself more time, causing content draughts and missing deadlines, or hire more people, which doesn't guarantee anything, may just clog things up and slow things down, and may not even be possible depending on the money situation. There are trade-offs for each choice and it is almost never as simple as just throw money at it. This is a reality of actual project management. I suggest you take a class on it.

To be fair, additional PvE content does not necessarily need to translate into high end raiding. There's a sizeable portion of the community who have been politely asking for more content for a while now - because there are plenty of people who invest in the game on a long term basis and desire more to do once they've completed the latest batch of MSQ's.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

We had 3 savages and 1 ultimates, which is equivalent to 1 week + 5 days prog (I assume TEA is 1 week prog), I will round to 2 week prog

2 week prog in Wow is 2 Mythical raids, they have 3-4 mythical raids (without even considering Heroic raids) per extension

Why such lack of pve content ? for a MMORPG that want to become better/the #1 :p

(I still consider FF14 better than WOW overall, but this lack of pve content is a bit upsetting)

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2 weeks total? You must be the top of the top then.

For most players it's several weeks to months to clear a tier or 1 ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

2 weeks total? You must be the top of the top then.

For most players it's several weeks to months to clear a tier or 1 ultimate.

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I know groups that are still trying to clear the final Savage raid and have been trying since it was released.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

You cant even quote and sources your post.
And that is just making excuses who makes money can make more content.

And you all are "whiteknighting" developers excuses behind wanting more.

And it perfectly serves devs.

Poeple wanting more of X : We want more!

People of Y : No or we dont get our things we want!

Devs laughing at them fighting between them while doing bare minimum of content despite claiming growth and making more money.

And if you cant see that ....... then.

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Raiders have been asking for more raids since...forever basically...
That's why Ultimates started being a thing.
It's not like the hardcore raiding scene is always being ignored or whatever you seem to be thinking....It's just not the absolute priority.
Now you may not like the way they are planning and adjusting their content release, and that's fair.
But saying "they have money they can make more content" is just irrelevant, especially after they announced spending a ton of money on the servers infrastructure, unless you have insider knowledge on their income and the amount they are spending.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

To be fair, additional PvE content does not necessarily need to translate into high end raiding. There's a sizeable portion of the community who have been politely asking for more content for a while now - because there are plenty of people who invest in the game on a long term basis and desire more to do once they've completed the latest batch of MSQ's.

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It's not humanly possible to create content faster than you can consume it unless you do procedually generated random corridors that are fun for 5 minutes.

It takes months to design, program, do the models and test a Trial that a PF group clears in 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

You really do not understand software development, time management, personnel management, nor money management. Throwing money at things doesn't mean they will get completed faster nor even get completed. Time, manpower, and money are limited. This means that if you are working at max capacity you either pull people from other projects, effectively slowing other areas, push everything back effectively giving yourself more time, causing content draughts and missing deadlines, or hire more people, which doesn't guarantee anything, may just clog things up and slow things down, and may not even be possible depending on the money situation. There are trade-offs for each choice and it is almost never as simple as just throw money at it. This is a reality of actual project management. I suggest you take a class on it.

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Agree, it is very very VERY hard to do games as a service and keep coming up with content to make said service fresh and keep players wanting to play. Time, resources, money, and engine limits. Like, every content patch a mmorpg comes out with is a gamble on keeping the player base happy and engaged. Choices has to be made on who to make happy more. And since most people don't do end game raids. It is easy choice for developers to cut back content, so they have time for content that most players play.



It is harsh reality, and it means that the player base will always have a little civil war with each other over what content they want to see. It is the nature of the beast.

I think the main problem is really, we should be seeing improvements per expansion. Yet ShB for example has had less content than previous expansions. They keep adding things that only a minority asked for, or content that is very short lived. People have asked for a long time now to add more so idk why people are talking about dev time. People know it takes dev time, but considering this has been a demand since the game first came out they’ve had plenty of time to adjust and listen.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the main problem is really, we should be seeing improvements per expansion. Yet ShB for example has had less content than previous expansions. They keep adding things that only a minority asked for, or content that is very short lived. People have asked for a long time now to add more so idk why people are talking about dev time. People know it takes dev time, but considering this has been a demand since the game first came out they’ve had plenty of time to adjust and listen.

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No amount of content the developers come up with. Player base will devour it fast and it won't feel "amazing" and how often can you make a grind system before the grind gets tedious?



What I HOPE they do is expand on the deep dungeon system, and give us more of that. Not copy and paste it, but add a new one and new features. I would love content that is repeatable and rewards time invested in a way I like, but how would you do that? That is hard.


Point is, no matter how much content the developers make. Someone else will be like. YO THATS IT?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the main problem is really, we should be seeing improvements per expansion. Yet ShB for example has had less content than previous expansions. They keep adding things that only a minority asked for, or content that is very short lived. People have asked for a long time now to add more so idk why people are talking about dev time. People know it takes dev time, but considering this has been a demand since the game first came out they’ve had plenty of time to adjust and listen.

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"Improvement" implies there is something wrong. Show me this magical MMO with endless content that FF14 should aspire to.

I'll hold my breath, I swear.

The idea that FFXIV is perfect and doing absolutely nothing wrong is arguably the exact same mentality that led to WoW's fall from grace, though.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the main problem is really, we should be seeing improvements per expansion. Yet ShB for example has had less content than previous expansions. They keep adding things that only a minority asked for, or content that is very short lived. People have asked for a long time now to add more so idk why people are talking about dev time. People know it takes dev time, but considering this has been a demand since the game first came out they’ve had plenty of time to adjust and listen.

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Outside of a deep dungeon and Ultimate SHB has been on par with the other expansions by my count. What is your definition of content though?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The idea that FFXIV is perfect and doing absolutely nothing wrong is arguably the exact same mentality that led to WoW's fall from grace, though.

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There's a truckload wrong with FF14. The amount of hard raid content that 99.9% will never see simply isn't one of them.

Let me put it in terms you people can grasp.

If you have time to make only 1 flavour of ice cream because you only had 1 machine and 99 customers want vanilla, and one wants cherry, which would you make? Vanilla or Cherry?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The idea that FFXIV is perfect and doing absolutely nothing wrong is arguably the exact same mentality that led to WoW's fall from grace, though.

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Oh it is not perfect, but there problems and room for improvement and then the cost benefit ratio of whether it is worth devoting time to such over something else as time, labor and money are all limited.

Again, not interested in the "But I want more" Debate. We all want more of whatever content we're enjoying the most. We'll get it, be patient. It's been years since the Devs said you're more than welcome to take a break from the game while they work. I'm stating that there are plenty of other alternative challenges to reach in this game.

Keep in mind that Ultimates are hard to tune and require a lot of man-hours to create COVID hit every game hard, this is where it shows for FFXIV. It'll likely be 1 Ultimate next expansion cycle too, according to recent interviews. (Go looking, I'm not going to cite here.) So take a moment to breathe and stretch, you'll be waiting a while if you can't find anything else to do.

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

"Improvement" implies there is something wrong. Show me this magical MMO with endless content that FF14 should aspire to.

I'll hold my breath, I swear.

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This game isn’t perfect. Bozja is by no means perfect at all. A lot of people weren’t satisfied with this expansions savage raids. Dungeons were made worse by streamlining them, and Yoshi says he wants to streamline them even more which is sad. Healers got butchered and tanks got simplified. So yes there’s many things that could be improved upon. We saw a downgrade in content from SB to Shb. Diadem was literally copy and pasted from an old area. Firmament was new yes but SB was able to give us Shirogane without sacrificing combat content. Let’s not forget that we also missed out on primal weapons for Gnb and Dnc, Voice acting for the 3 weapons trials, voice acting for the nier raids, Dungeons per patch, deep dungeon, 2 relic zones seeing that SB brought us 4. An extra trial(SB gave us Rathalis and Yojimbo,) Allied beast tribe quests, Hildibrand quests, end of expansion glamours. Also missed an entire second pvp set that we should’ve gotten as well.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, not interested in the "But I want more" Debate. We all want more of whatever content we're enjoying the most. We'll get it, be patient. It's been years since the Devs said you're more than welcome to take a break from the game while they work. I'm stating that there are plenty of other alternative challenges to reach in this game.

Keep in mind that Ultimates are hard to tune and require a lot of man-hours to create COVID hit every game hard, this is where it shows for FFXIV. It'll likely be 1 Ultimate next expansion cycle too, according to recent interviews. (Go looking, I'm not going to cite here.) So take a moment to breathe and stretch, you'll be waiting a while if you can't find anything else to do.

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People have been being told to be patient for years now. It isnt until a few months ago that they finally addressed the housing placard issue with a solution(a hardly better one at that). Its been 6 years since people have been asking for that. The whole "take a break" stance is kind of ironic for the devs to take when they have a housing demolition timer so you cant be away from the game for more than 45 days.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the main problem is really, we should be seeing improvements per expansion. Yet ShB for example has had less content than previous expansions. They keep adding things that only a minority asked for, or content that is very short lived. People have asked for a long time now to add more so idk why people are talking about dev time. People know it takes dev time, but considering this has been a demand since the game first came out they’ve had plenty of time to adjust and listen.

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I think they are just struggling to find what the majority wants in terms of PvE, so they are adding various things to please a broader audience.
Just adding more raids is not the solution. Adding more dungeons is not the solution either.
People didn't seem to really engage much with deep dungeon either and that's why there wasn't one in ShB (actually, this content seems to get more and more popular over time, especially during the content lulls in ShB).
Bozja had some cool and fun stuff too(DR, the duels, the CEs were all cool IMO, despite some design flaws), but also not good enough.
They added some really fun stuff to the blue mage experience as well, but a lot of people ignore blue mage.

So...what does the majority ask for?... Hard content? More dungeons? More grind? More unique gameplay styles like BLU?

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

There's a truckload wrong with FF14. The amount of hard raid content that 99.9% will never see simply isn't one of them.

Let me put it in terms you people can grasp.

If you have time to make only 1 flavour of ice cream because you only had 1 machine and 99 customers want vanilla, and one wants cherry, which would you make? Vanilla or Cherry?

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I...I wasn't talking about raid content, though?

This was my post:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

To be fair, additional PvE content does not necessarily need to translate into high end raiding. There's a sizeable portion of the community who have been politely asking for more content for a while now - because there are plenty of people who invest in the game on a long term basis and desire more to do once they've completed the latest batch of MSQ's.

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You could even take a look at my lodestone profile to see how much raiding I do and what sort of content I choose to engage in.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This game isn’t perfect. Bozja is by no means perfect at all. A lot of people weren’t satisfied with this expansions savage raids. Dungeons were made worse by streamlining them, and Yoshi says he wants to streamline them even more which is sad. Healers got butchered and tanks got simplified. So yes there’s many things that could be improved upon. We saw a downgrade in content from SB to Shb. Diadem was literally copy and pasted from an old area. Firmament was new yes but SB was able to give us Shirogane without sacrificing combat content. Let’s not forget that we also missed out on primal weapons for Gnb and Dnc, Voice acting for the 3 weapons trials, voice acting for the nier raids, Dungeons per patch, deep dungeon, 2 relic zones seeing that SB brought us 4. An extra trial(SB gave us Rathalis and Yojimbo,) Allied beast tribe quests, Hildibrand quests, end of expansion glamours. Also missed an entire second pvp set that we should’ve gotten as well.

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And I'm sure none of that had anything to do with the pandemic, no, SE was just lazy, right? I mean, people being unable to do their job for months surely has no affect at all, on anything.

I actually think they've been aiming to provide a variety of content rather than just 'finding the one thing that suits the majority'. Which I feel is the right way to go with this. Experiment with certain styles, measure success - use that information to try something new.

First version of Diadem failed hard, but lead us to Eureka. Eureka lead us to Bozjda. And in spite of some people's insistence that it wasn't successful, it actual was, by far and away more measures than its prior two. It's still relevant now from start to finish, where as Eureka Pagos was emptying out by now.

I don't want them to stop experimenting just for the sake of making one more Ultimate raid that a small fraction of the playerbase will even try, let alone clear. I do want them to keep refining systems so that they're improved upon previous iterations - and I do want more variety of content.

But we have a pretty good variety now, and most of it stays relevant, if only for glamour and bragging rights. That said, FFXIV sort of makes the ilvl climb irrelevant itself with how quickly it cycles. We're only feeling the strain now because of the late release.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I think they are just struggling to find what the majority wants in terms of PvE, so they are adding various things to please a broader audience.
Just adding more raids is not the solution. Adding more dungeons is not the solution either.
People didn't seem to really engage much with deep dungeon either and that's why there wasn't one in ShB (actually, this content seems to get more and more popular over time, especially during the content lulls in ShB).
Bozja had some cool and fun stuff too(DR, the duels, the CEs were all cool IMO, despite some design flaws), but also not good enough.
They added some really fun stuff to the blue mage experience as well, but a lot of people ignore blue mage.

So...what does the majority ask for?... Hard content? More dungeons? More grind? More unique gameplay styles like BLU?

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Theyre only struggling because they never look at our forums. They look to the likes of reddit and twitter or the jp forums which have a vocal minority. Lots of people have expressed sadness at them not including an allied beast tribe quest this expansion, along with hildibrand. They decided not to implement hildy because to them it was "stale." Yet they didnt ask their playerbase what they thought? A deep dungeon expansion would be nice, with more unique mechanics and gameplay than weve seen before. I'd prefer we get more dungeons honestly, because i havent seen an improvement in dungeons this expansion as opposed to previous ones. In fact id argue theyve been worse as ShB post patch dungeons are incredibly streamlined AND yoshi p said theyre streamlining them even more in 6.0 which....no one really asked for. Create some overworld content so we actually explore it. The new fate system was a step in the right direction but theres so much more they could do with the world.