Future Expansion idea for healer.

I know EndWalker is coming out with both Sage and Reaper. I know that the ideas I am about to say might not be super popular in healing community. With the introduction of class archetype quest in Shadowbringers. That will also be in EndWalker. There is a hidden quest line that requires you to finish all 4 story lines. I am sure this style of hidden quest will also be in Endwalker.

I am someone who normally mains tanks/melee dps. I do find casters and casting Healers a bit on the boring side.((that my personal opinion. If you enjoy casters. That is good for you. They are just not my cup of tea.)) As someone who wants to see all the content. I find my self forced to level up Summon as it gives me a free healer.

Now I would like to heal more in the game. If the game had a more action based healer. I figured there a lot of people, who might be willing to switch from DPS to Healer. If the game gave us a healer that felt more like a dps. GunBreaker is a tank that plays like a melee dps. Could we get a healer that was like Gunbreaker. A healer that felt more like a melee leech dps. Maybe a dps heal.

I know Warhammer online is a dead game and was more pvp focus. Though it had some unique healer ideas. Stuff like the shaman/arch mage. Where dealing damage empowered your healing spells. Then healing empowered your DPS.

Same goes for the Warrior Priest/Disciple of Khaine. Where the class was pretty much an AOE healer. It focus off more on melee leech healing and building up a healing resources to release powerful AOE heals.

I know they classes would not act like that. Yet it could be a nice starting point for the idea of some more action base healer.

You are terribly wrong, healing is both proactive and reactive, depending on the job and the situation. Scholars need to put shield before the damage happens, whilst White Mage is more reactive, but that doesn't mean neither of those have to play the opposite way depending on what's happening during the fight.

So you basically want a Discipline Priest or a Holy Paladin from WoW, healing while doing damage at the same time. The problem is that this is extremely difficult to balance, specially because in FF14 healers are so homogeneous that literally besides the regen vs shield there's no benefit for bringing other jobs. In WoW you "have" to bring Priest for the buff, Shaman for the spirit link totem, Paladin for the auras etc. That doesn't happen here.

I'm sure SE could figure out how to implement a healer of this characteristics, but doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

You are terribly wrong, healing is both proactive and reactive, depending on the job and the situation. Scholars need to put shield before the damage happens, whilst White Mage is more reactive, but that doesn't mean neither of those have to play the opposite way depending on what's happening during the fight.

So you basically want a Discipline Priest or a Holy Paladin from WoW, healing while doing damage at the same time. The problem is that this is extremely difficult to balance, specially because in FF14 healers are so homogeneous that literally besides the regen vs shield there's no benefit for bringing other jobs. In WoW you "have" to bring Priest for the buff, Shaman for the spirit like totem, Paladin for the auras etc. That doesn't happen here.

I'm sure SE could figure out how to implement a healer of this characteristics, but doesn't seem to be happening anytime soom.

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Thank you for the kind reply. I know I am not an expert at healing. Being more of a tank/melee dps. I am more used to dealing the damage and taking it. Lol.

Yeah I know it not going happen soon and yeah I was hoping the next one would be more like a Holy Paladin. Though I would say making it less caster and most around like a samurai kenki style. Having you build up healer kenki to spend on bigger powerful instant oGCD AOE. While your your normal heals would be instant GCD. With a small leech heal from your normal damage.

So something more AOE base and less single target base. It can easily be more of a raid healer. While the other healers can be more for tank healers. This is something else WoW has. Some healers are better for tank healing and other are better for raid healing. As you said there no benenfit of bring one healer over the other. Well we can do Raid healers and tank healers. Making it so after Sage the next 2 tanks will be built around unique raid heal aspects. While at the same time can at less heal in a 4 man. Just might mean tanks do have to do smaller trains.

Who know what will happen. I just feel with use getting 2 hot healers and 2 shield healers. There room now for the next healer to be an experiment on healing style. Like how other mmo have done some more unique style. A silly as swtor was to heal friends by shooting them in the back with healing bullets. It did give a interesting spin on ways to heal. Hell I would not mind Combat Medic Style from SWG. Throwing heals and dots at your enemy. Always on the move instantly throwing stuff at people. There many ways mmo have tried different way in healing. Some good some bad.

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

I just feel with use getting 2 hot healers and 2 shield healers..

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For what I've seen, they are doing something similar. Scholar and Astro will be more on the supportive side with buffs and debuffs, whilst White Mage and Sage will be "selfish" healers with more personal DPS but less utility, which is something I personally like.

Though I admit, as a Disc Priest main I'd love to see something similar in here as well.

A Disc priest style healer would be very, very difficult to balance in FFXIV. Since damage is the most important metric in nearly all content, you create a job whose explicit purpose is being good at the most important thing...well, you've got a mandatory pick there.

While I can agree that more diverse healers would be more difficult to balance, I find it difficult to care about that when the quest for balance has cost the existing healers so much. I’d love to see some more diverse healer concepts, including a healer designed to stand in melee. I also disagree that a healer that healed through dps would necessarily have to be stronger in dps than the other healers. All healers are aiming for as much dps uptime as possible. The disc-priest equivalent could even have slightly weaker dps potencies, to make up for the fact that they’ll probably get more dps uptime.

I have a hard time imagining healers getting more DPS uptime than they already have.

A healer that can heal through damage can't work without it ,healing through damage, being tied to a cd to work. Then it could keep with it could keep its damage relatively the same with other healers. Basically it would just be another cd with some flavor (which I'm fine with personally).

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I have a hard time imagining healers getting more DPS uptime than they already have.

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True, but presumably a healing through dps focussed healer would have damage ogcds instead of the healing ogcds the current healers have (for the most part, apart from energy drain, assize, etc) and therefore would get more damage abilities in. Uptime was the wrong word for it, though.

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Originally Posted by Acece

A healer that can heal through damage can't work without it ,healing through damage, being tied to a cd to work. Then it could keep with it could keep its damage relatively the same with other healers. Basically it would just be another cd with some flavor (which I'm fine with personally).

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Is the issue you’re pointing to that if there is nothing to damage, the healer can’t heal? You’re right that a something might need to be done about that. Or is it that a healer who heals through damage would have to do more damage than other healers? Because that’s just not true. To take a leaf out of disc priest, have an ability which makes an ally a healing target, and then make them heal for x% of all damage done by the healer. If you need the healer to heal more or less, you just change x. The healer can be doing the same amount of damage as the other healers, or more, or less. It doesn’t change how the class would function. Alternately, you could do a charge system. The healer’s special resource meter fills y% of the damage dealt by the healer. Again, if you want to change the amount of healing the healer does, you change y, to change the rate at which their special heals charge (of course, you’d have to give them some other heals as well, Scholar has heals both as part of aetherflow and not. It could be like that).

The long and the short of it is that there’s no reason a healer that heals through dps needs to do more dps than other healers. And I wouldn’t even say doing damage would be a higher priority for such a healer because let’s face it all healers ads already largely focussed on doing damage.

Sure I could see it being similar to Scholar but instead of a Faerie they have passive heals from dpsing and instead of group buffs they just deal more dmg. Not sure how far they could take it though. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

Is the issue you’re pointing to that if there is nothing to damage, the healer can’t heal? You’re right that a something might need to be done about that. Or is it that a healer who heals through damage would have to do more damage than other healers? Because that’s just not true. To take a leaf out of disc priest, have an ability which makes an ally a healing target, and then make them heal for x% of all damage done by the healer. If you need the healer to heal more or less, you just change x. The healer can be doing the same amount of damage as the other healers, or more, or less. It doesn’t change how the class would function. Alternately, you could do a charge system. The healer’s special resource meter fills y% of the damage dealt by the healer. Again, if you want to change the amount of healing the healer does, you change y, to change the rate at which their special heals charge (of course, you’d have to give them some other heals as well, Scholar has heals both as part of aetherflow and not. It could be like that).

The long and the short of it is that there’s no reason a healer that heals through dps needs to do more dps than other healers. And I wouldn’t even say doing damage would be a higher priority for such a healer because let’s face it all healers ads already largely focussed on doing damage.

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I didn't mean that they should do more damage, what I meant was I wanted them to do comparable damage to the other healers. If it did less damage overall then other healers then it wouldn't be played outside of prog. It would be invaluable during prog but be useless outside of it when optimization happens. It's a very hard thing to balance.

let's say in prog healers have 70%-80% uptime on damage, meanwhile the healer in question would have 90%-100% uptime on damage. Would that mean that it does 20% less damage then the other healers? When optimization happens it gets cut down to 90% or more for other healers while they're still at their cap. They would throw away that healer when ever prog ends and they would put in a ast or what ever is does more damage. It sucks but they really do need to do comparable damage to other healers unless they want it as designated prog job.

What I find ironic about some "idea for healers" posts is that astro, before 5.0, was an engaging combination of healing, DPS, and party support. Instead of neutering astro, Squeenix should have taken steps to give the other two heal jobs similar amounts of variety and complexity.

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Originally Posted by Acece

I didn't mean that they should do more damage, what I meant was I wanted them to do comparable damage to the other healers. If it did less damage overall then other healers then it wouldn't be played outside of prog. It would be invaluable during prog but be useless outside of it when optimization happens. It's a very hard thing to balance.

let's say in prog healers have 70%-80% uptime on damage, meanwhile the healer in question would have 90%-100% uptime on damage. Would that mean that it does 20% less damage then the other healers? When optimization happens it gets cut down to 90% or more for other healers while they're still at their cap. They would throw away that healer when ever prog ends and they would put in a ast or what ever is does more damage. It sucks but they really do need to do comparable damage to other healers unless they want it as designated prog job.

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A fair point. I still think there are solutions, though. You could have some system that allowed them to trade off between damage and healing, which would mean that they could also gain more dps as less healing was required. Maybe you could do something like the OG cleric stance, where you have a toggle that increases the proportion of damage converted to healing but reduces the amount of damage done (a stance that would be on more often in prog than after. Alternately, if you use the dps to charge the meter idea, maybe some of the moves on that meter are more power
dps moves themselves, which can be used when less healing is needed, but which can’t be justified when the heals are actually useful.

I appreciate you picking flaws in the system. It’s necessary in order to get a working idea.

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Originally Posted by Acece

I didn't mean that they should do more damage, what I meant was I wanted them to do comparable damage to the other healers. If it did less damage overall then other healers then it wouldn't be played outside of prog. It would be invaluable during prog but be useless outside of it when optimization happens. It's a very hard thing to balance.

let's say in prog healers have 70%-80% uptime on damage, meanwhile the healer in question would have 90%-100% uptime on damage. Would that mean that it does 20% less damage then the other healers? When optimization happens it gets cut down to 90% or more for other healers while they're still at their cap. They would throw away that healer when ever prog ends and they would put in a ast or what ever is does more damage. It sucks but they really do need to do comparable damage to other healers unless they want it as designated prog job.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

A fair point. I still think there are solutions, though. You could have some system that allowed them to trade off between damage and healing, which would mean that they could also gain more dps as less healing was required. Maybe you could do something like the OG cleric stance, where you have a toggle that increases the proportion of damage converted to healing but reduces the amount of damage done (a stance that would be on more often in prog than after. Alternately, if you use the dps to charge the meter idea, maybe some of the moves on that meter are more power
dps moves themselves, which can be used when less healing is needed, but which can’t be justified when the heals are actually useful.

I appreciate you picking flaws in the system. It’s necessary in order to get a working idea.

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Thank you so much for these helpful insights. I am not a healer main. So this is out of my normality point of view. I am very honored so many people would help brainstorm with such a massively different style of healing. I do hope SE does see this for the next time they design a healer class.