[DEV] Materia mistake ? ?!

I just went to meld some materia to a lvl 28 item and it turns out that

Tier I is 1+
Tier II is 31+.
Tier III is 41+
Tier IV is 41+

Is this a mistake ?

Nope, pretty sure it's been like that. I know both III and IV were 40+.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Nope, pretty sure it's been like that. I know both III and IV were 40+.

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Especially considering for those double-triple melds people go after T3s more so than IVs so they both have the same baseline.

Hmm that's pretty stupid really, oh well.

Common sense would suggest that it should be

Tier I is 1+
Tier II is 21+.
Tier III is 31+
Tier IV is 41+

But then common sense is not SE's forte

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Hmm that's pretty stupid really, oh well.

Common sense would suggest that it should be

Tier I is 1+
Tier II is 21+.
Tier III is 31+
Tier IV is 41+

But then common sense is not SE's forte

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It makes more sense the way it is as far as the game is in my opinion. Your suggestion only makes sense from a purely numerical correlation standpoint.

Levels between 1 and 30 are very fast and gear isn't worth much investment, thus low level materia is all that's needed and still unused.

Levels from 31-40 are like a transition, and worth a bit better materia.

Levels 41+ are meant to take the most time and thus get a higher grade of materia that people do actively invest in for gear.

Tier IV is meant to be a pure tier, the best quality of materia, and thus isn't limited to it's own level zone but treated as essentially being powerful even to single meld.

A lot of the stats on various uncommon drops are balanced around single tier III melds.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

But then common sense is not SE's forte

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Definitely not. I mean, White Mages are pure nukers without any cure spells yes?

>.>

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Levels 41+ are meant to take the most time and thus get a higher grade of materia that people do actively invest in for gear.

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This pretty much.

Yea none of that makes any sense either Noctis.

Basically you are excusing one flaw because of another.

When PvP level brackets come into effect people will spend more time making mid range melded materia, in fact people I know are already doing so.

Yoshi-p plan to slow down leveling in 2.0 as he has said a few times and will no doubt add more mid level content, so I think there should be options for people in that level range if they wish to pursue it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Definitely not. I mean, White Mages are pure nukers without any cure spells yes?

>.>

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Go sit down with your toys dear, the adults are trying to have a discussion.

I don't see what flaw I am excusing it with.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I don't see what flaw I am excusing it with.

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The speed of levelling obvious.. (power levelling for example)

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I don't see what flaw I am excusing it with.

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Obviously the fact they used the common sense he said they lacked. Since as you stated, 41+ is where most people spend most of their leveling time as well as the where pretty much any gear worth using for the longest that wasn't purely u/u is in the 41+ range, especially during the 'optimal' stage of gear.

He's not here to listen to reason Noctis, he's here to question SE's design for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

The speed of levelling obvious.. (power levelling for example)

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Barring Power Levelling, the speed of leveling prior to 31 is still quite fast enough. I wasn't even thinking of power levelling, as for that one doesn't even bother with any gear prior to their 30s.

Also, don't forget that content prior to endgame is not balanced around materia-enhanced gear, and thus nobody is expected to have enhanced gear. This explains both the very small values of materia stats you can feasibly obtain at lower levels, as well as the higher tendency to materia enhance everything after 41.

Well if thats the case why not just make materia an end game only activity .. if it doesn't matter ?

Why even have Tier 1 if its not worth the time or effort to meld lower level gear ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well if thats the case why not just make materia an end game only activity .. if it doesn't matter ?

Why even have Tier 1 if its not worth the time or effort to meld lower level gear ?

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Options.

/10cha

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Originally Posted by Rau

Options.

/10cha

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So why don't you get options for level 20-31 ... lol did you not read any of the thread ?

Bleh never mind, this forum gets worse by the day.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I just went to meld some materia to a lvl 28 item and it turns out that

Tier I is 1+
Tier II is 31+.
Tier III is 41+
Tier IV is 41+

Is this a mistake ?

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It makes more sense the way it is as far as the game is in my opinion. Your suggestion only makes sense from a purely numerical correlation standpoint.

Levels between 1 and 30 are very fast and gear isn't worth much investment, thus low level materia is all that's needed and still unused.

Levels from 31-40 are like a transition, and worth a bit better materia.

Levels 41+ are meant to take the most time and thus get a higher grade of materia that people do actively invest in for gear.

Tier IV is meant to be a pure tier, the best quality of materia, and thus isn't limited to it's own level zone but treated as essentially being powerful even to single meld.

A lot of the stats on various uncommon drops are balanced around single tier III melds.

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Noctis, pardon the expression but, what you wrote looks good on paper.

The problem is due to the current disproportion in player's class' levels, mainly skewed towards the post 40 range, players in the lvl 1-30 range have a harder time finding exp pts than do the post lvl 40s.

Lvl 41+ are indeed meant to take the most time but the truth is with the speed of the exp chains and the exp per chain as compared to the lower 30 levels, the time ends up being the quickest process.

I remember going from 40-50 in one or two days without materia whereas the first 30 took a lot longer, mostly doing leves due to the lack of lower lvl players.

At this point I might point out this is in part Power Leveling's fault to which I am certain Jinko will bring up lvl sync and co...

In the end I agree with thinko as far as the lvl spread of Materia. I think it would be much better if each grade corresponded numerically to ever 10/11 lvls. Although, I must admit, I am biased since I would like to see PvP level cap/sync brackets corresponding to the same materia levels spread.

If this were the case, lvl 1-10 bracket PvP would be able to use Grade I materia.
lvl 11-20 bracket PvP would be able to use Grade II materia...
lvl 21-30 bracket PvP would be able to use Grade III materia, and
lvl 31-40 bracket PvP would, in turn, be able to use Grade IV materia.

This would not only creat a competitve environment between various players syncs at various lvls due to the ability/spell limitations of those levels. It would also create a competitive economic market insofar as low grade materia are concerned.

Currently these low grade materia are barely used by players in the lvl 1-30 range. On top of that, they only increase your stats by a fraction of the Grade III and IV stats making them useless to higher lvl players. For those reasons these go for pennies on the dollar and are mostly used for grinding out materia achievements.

To sum it up: The changes that I and Jinko have mentioned would work in synergy to produce a whole greater than the sum of it's parts. Not only would it help the economy, and create a more compettive pvp environment, but also help redistribute the wealth of the richest to the new player base most in need of funding for new gear that would presumablyt be crafted by the richest...

Took the words from my mind ..

I didn't really think about the last bit in regards to lower level players being able to make money through the sale of materia.

You are quit right that as it stands low level materia is pretty much useless outside of grinding for the Gamblers Crown.

I've heard on a few occasions that new players find it hard to make money when they first start the game, materia would definitely help in that respect.

As high level long term players I think we forget how hard it can be starting out in a game that has an established economy, and as you say lack of low level players materia could give an advantage on both accounts.

When I mention 41+ taking more time, I am including all endgame activity as well. Materia is an active system even at capped level, and the focus of it isn't primarily for leveling.

That being said, it is also in part a form of customization. A way to make your gear your own with your choice of melds even at lower levels. As far as expected use goes, however, as suggested by the devs and Yoshida directyl, endgame content is balanced around players having gear with stats that equate to a single high tier meld on everything. For that reason we can understand that most of the Materia system's merit comes at higher and capped levels.

That is the reason the system is so top-heavy, because it is being balanced in such a way. Most of the confusion comes from both tier IIIs and IVs being 41+. People naturally expect it to all be spread out- which is what I feel is more like what sounds sensible on paper- but in fact by design tier IVs exist to essentially be rare and more potent versions of tier IIIs, while lower tiers exist to add customization to lower levels.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

When I mention 41+ taking more time, I am including all endgame activity as well. Materia is an active system even at capped level, and the focus of it isn't primarily for leveling.

That being said, it is also in part a form of customization. A way to make your gear your own with your choice of melds even at lower levels. As far as expected use goes, however, as suggested by the devs and Yoshida directyl, endgame content is balanced around players having gear with stats that equate to a single high tier meld on everything. For that reason we can understand that most of the Materia system's merit comes at higher and capped levels.

That is the reason the system is so top-heavy, because it is being balanced in such a way. Most of the confusion comes from both tier IIIs and IVs being 41+. People naturally expect it to all be spread out- which is what I feel is more like what sounds sensible on paper- but in fact by design tier IVs exist to essentially be rare and more potent versions of tier IIIs, while lower tiers exist to add customization to lower levels.

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It wouldn't appear that you read my post judging by your response.

Anyhow I will concede lvl 50+ content makes up the majority of the end game, but you can hardly consider any of the primals or AV/CC to be 40+ lvl content...

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Originally Posted by Matsume

It wouldn't appear that you read my post judging by your response.

Anyhow I will concede lvl 50+ content makes up the majority of the end game, but you can hardly consider any of the primals or AV/CC to be 40+ lvl content...

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There's nothing past 50. 50 is included in 41+.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

It wouldn't appear that you read my post judging by your response.

Anyhow I will concede lvl 50+ content makes up the majority of the end game, but you can hardly consider any of the primals or AV/CC to be 40+ lvl content...

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Oh, I did. In response I wanted to point out the relevance of endgame content and how it is a major focus for effective materia-use and much more so than leveling as a whole, rendering any arguments based on leveling secondary in importance.

That being said, I should have mentioned that I don't see how Jinko's expected distribution would stimulate the economy, even for lower level players, in any way realistically speaking. With a distribution like that we'd have said levels producing said tiers of materia and all we'd see instead is tier IIIs being much less prevalent and less-used and an increase in the number of tier IVs. Tier Is and IIs would remain as is because people don't ignore them only due to power leveling. They ignore them due to them being an unnecessary investment beyond customization.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Oh, I did. In response I wanted to point out the relevance of endgame content and how it is a major focus for effective materia-use and much more so than leveling as a whole, rendering any arguments based on leveling secondary in importance.

That being said, I should have mentioned that I don't see how Jinko's expected distribution would stimulate the economy, even for lower level players, in any way realistically speaking. With a distribution like that we'd have said levels producing said tiers of materia and all we'd see instead is tier IIIs being much less prevalent and less-used and an increase in the number of tier IVs. Tier Is and IIs would remain as is because people don't ignore them only due to power leveling. They ignore them due to them being an unnecessary investment beyond customization.

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The majority of my post focuses on how bracketed PvP and materia could act in synergy to benefit all of eorzea.

Your post just says it how it is and was intended to be despite the fact that the game doesn't make use of materia in such a manner.

I don't see any bracketed PvP in game atm. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

So basically you don't want it changed even if it could be ?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that you are opposed to making tier 2 and 3 available to 20+ and 30+ respectively.

Strange behaviour indeed.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So basically you don't want it changed even if it could be ?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that you are opposed to making tier 2 and 3 available to 20+ and 30+ respectively.

Strange behaviour indeed.

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I'm not particularly against it. I only disagree with the notion that it makes no sense or any mentioned benefit to it.