So while SE seems pretty adamant on the wards, what I would like to see is an instanced ward, but tied to the FC. In other words, the FC would pay like half a billion gil (or something pretty steep that is going to take some work) and be able to unlock a ward and place the FC house on any of the properties in that ward. After that initial house has been purchased, members of the FC can buy a personal house at any of the remaining properties at a reduced rate, and then build it out.
This way we get a neighborhood that is the FCs to populate as they see fit, we get to build a neighborhood of friends, and everyone wins.
These instanced wards should be in addition to the usual wards, and the existing housing should remain unaffected.
Instanced Wards
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07-31-2021, 01:24 PMAlmagnus1Instanced Wards
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07-31-2021, 09:51 PMJojoyaWhat happens when the FC leader and/or officers decide they don't like Lavender Beds anymore and want a Shirogane ward instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
What happens when the FC has more than 29 members so not everyone gets to purchase a plot (my FC has 67 unique members as of last count plus several dozen alts as an example)?
What happens when someone leaves or gets kicked from the FC?
What happens when an officer has their account compromised and the thief kicks everyone from the FC?
What happens if there's drama and the FC leader disbands the FC?
It's hard to get players to participate when everything they have built up can be taken away by another player's whim. It's very unlikely to reduce demand in the non-instanced wards since players are still going to want a house that they won't lose except through their own action/inaction. -
08-01-2021, 12:26 AMAlmagnus1Implement a vote for a neighborhood move so that a majority of the FC has to approve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
There's still FC rooms and apartments, it'd be no different than what happens in an existing ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
House would get destroyed. Perhaps the houses there shouldn't count as the personal house, but be treated as a larger FC room?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
The officer will have learned why 2FA is a good thing, and hopefully SE can roll back the compromise. Besides, if you're in an FC where the leadership is bad, eventually they're going to screw you over and you're going to want to leave. FCs normally don't survive that very long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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08-01-2021, 04:35 AMThemarvin
Wards is already in instances, there is x Amount of Wards = x amount of instances, why try and fix something that we already got, furthermore FC houses has x amount of apartment instances built in as well.
It will never work, and it will result in drama, and the amount of resources needed for it, would make it a pure headache for the Developers.
Options for anything like this, would be a FC instance that is pre-built including all houses and only small things you can add to your house, as it will all be pre-built features by SE, with only diversity as of where you live in the game... wood... beach... rocky hills... and beach with asian setting. -
08-01-2021, 07:38 AMlolzyking
What would probably be better is instanced solo housing, that isn't loaded to the server unless the owner loads it. The server could just save a simple inventory log of the house, while all the placement data is saved to the owners hardware.
It would probably be something like a house on an island, either in the sea or floating in the sky, or a small oasis in the desert. -
08-01-2021, 10:26 AMJojoyaSE isn't going to dictate how FCs do their decision making. That will never happen except on a voluntary basis of the FC and the FC leader/officers would still be free to do whatever they want regardless of the opinion of their FC because they're the ones with the housing permissions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
But that wasn't my question in the first place. I was asking what happens once the decision was made, not how should it be made.
So what happens once the decision is made? You can't relocate a set of houses from one district to another. The layout isn't the same.
So you want to implement a system that promotes drama within an FC by creating "haves" and "have-nots" based on who the officers allow to purchase a housing plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
That never ends well.
Then what's the point of buying there when someone else has control over what happens even though it's my gil spent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Doesn't change that the entire FC got screwed over and has to rebuild from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
SE doesn't get involved in FC theft/fraud now. They're not going to get involved in FC housing disputes either.
*****
There is no benefit to this system except to the FC leader/officers who control things. This sort of thing might work with very small FCs composed of close, long-time real life friends in a stable relationship. It would never work for standard FCs.
I'd rather see SE put the time in improving the instanced housing system that already exists to serve all players, not just a handful of FC officers.
The wards are a different type of instancing, more akin to a duplicate zone than an actual instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themarvin
But you're right. It won't work. -
08-01-2021, 12:58 PMAlmagnus1IIRC the same property number maps to the same size class of house, so you'd just reassign everyone the current numbers, and that works out to the same between the wards... or a similar type of mapping is devised so no one loses a property, and then charge a a couple hundred million gil as a ward "moving" fee with a cooldown timer of like 2 months to relo the FC to discourage frequent moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
While it may not in some cases, it's still the most likely instanced housing setup we will see, as it does incorporate Yoshi-P's vision of a ward into the instanced housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
If you've got a better idea that still uses wards, I'm all ears.
Ok, so what about FC rooms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Ok, so how likely are those disputes within the FC now? How many FCs do we have where the leader kicks everyone else out just to keep the house?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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08-01-2021, 04:50 PMAwha
That is how I got my first house got leader of an FC then booted everyone.
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08-01-2021, 10:24 PMNepenthaWhat do you do if there are people in the FC who aren't active for whatever reason so you can't get a majority? Plus, as Jojoya said, you can't just flip wards if you decide you'd rather go to another zone for whatever reason. If they did this, they'd have to make all the instanced wards alike, no differences between housing areas. Ul'dah would have to have the exact same layout as Mists, Lavender Beds, Shirogane and Ishgard. How well do you think that's going to be received by players? (Please, think of people who are not just you for once.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Well sucks for anyone who wants to join an FC with more than 29 unique accounts owning all the houses already. You get apartments or FC rooms if you're late to the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
How would that even work? House gets destroyed, at the whim of a FC Master or Officer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
That's a leap of logic there. Every situation will be different. And man what a lot of work for the GMs at that point. Even if you get the ward back you'd have to repurchase the house and decorate it all over again. The only way to restore things the way they were would be to literally roll back the FC to that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Other thoughts: What happens when you decide you want to leave the FC for whatever reason? You lose your housing, you lose everything you've built so far. No one wants this. People want to be able to keep their home after they've spent time, gil, and energy on making it exactly as they want it to be.
What happens if an FC Master goes MIA, leadership passes down to a random person who happens to log in that day, and they decide to boot everyone in the FC to keep the ward for themselves? GMs are not going to touch that one. You lose your home to the whims of a random FC member. Or boot people they just don't like? What if an FC goes inactive except like one or two people?
Before you answer, actually stop to look at this through the lens of your average player in an FC who has this type of housing. Don't just toss out random ideas without considering how it actually will work for once. -
08-02-2021, 12:20 AMAlmagnus1What happens to an existing FC room? Houses in the FC ward would be basically bigger versions of those. It's also probably why they shouldn't count against the personal house limit....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepentha
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08-02-2021, 01:21 AMNepenthaAn FC room is no where near the size and scale of a house. And also costs more to purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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08-02-2021, 10:31 AMJojoyaThey do not map the same. Take Larges as an example:Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Shiro - 7/17, 16/46, 30/60
Lavender Beds - 3/33, 6/36, 28/58
Goblet - 5/35, 15/35, 30/60
Mist - 2/32, 5/35, 15/45
My Mist 60 is a medium. If I were to be automatically moved to Shiro or Goblet 60, I'd be placed in a large (which I do not want - I want a medium). It would at least be a medium still in Lavender Beds.
But then take my FC's large (LB 33). In every other district, that plot number is a small.
Then you still have the issue of even moving small to small is not the same. Where someone might have a small with a good view now, the same number in a different district might be staring into a wall.
The current system using wards would be better than yours. Leave it in the individual player's hands instead of giving a FC leader control over what other players get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Remember that for all you used the term "instanced", the wards would still be nearly the same as existing wards when it comes to consumption of server resources. If one FC member is in the ward, the entire ward has to be loaded and not just that one member's property. If the FC only has 10 miembers, that's at least 19 plots going unused.
The ward system itself is the problem if SE can't keep up with the hardware demands to make it function and work for all players.
Who's complaining they can't get a FC room now? No one. They get an apartment instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Disputes within FCs happen all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
And see Awha's response.
I easily could have done it myself when my alt was the only active member of her FC for 5 months and ended up leader through the auto-dethrone. I could have kicked everyone out and had a second house all to myself instead of maintaining the FC until people started returning and eventually handing leadership to a friend who wanted to be running a FC.
There are other players who have come to the forums in a similar position "I'm now leader of a FC with a house because everyone else quit playing, is it okay for me to kick everyone so I can keep the house?"
Very few FCs are more than loose social groups that fall apart as members have their interest change and leave the FC or quit the game. The wrong person getting leader through auto-dethrone or other means can destroy it. -
08-02-2021, 08:48 PMThemarvin
Only way to get it fully instanced this way would mean, not customizeable options for decorations and set houses as a pre-built feature... like the Inn rooms... that is the only way stuff like this would be implented, because it would require too much work the other way around and too much waste of good resources into a small niche of the game.
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08-03-2021, 11:01 AMAlmagnus1May be better to just have the FC do a non-refundable delete/recreate, or give a small window (like a day or two) for a 100% refund if they picked a ward they don't like. If someone's going to be dropping that much gil, making changes painful will force them to think through the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Why not have both? If an FC wants to fight for a house, they can do so. But if they can fundraise the half billion (or more) gil it takes to buy the ward, let them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Unless they're on Balmung...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
But tbh, you're really just highlight flaws in the FC system. You're also highlight why there needs to be criteria which, when met, the FC either releases the house or just gets deleted outright (which releases the house).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
That said, both of these cases are highlight why it may be necessary for the FC leader to be able to take the FC house as their own, so if you have someone that's got a dead FC, but doesn't have a personal house, they can claim the house as their own and any work decorating the house isn't lost - similar to how someone stuck in a dead FC may want to raid the storage and FC chest and claim it as their own. -
08-03-2021, 12:43 PMJojoyaOr better just not to have private FC wards in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
It's another "sounds good on paper but works out terrible in practice" idea.
Because then you end up with a bunch of barely occupied wards consuming server resources when those resources could be serving more players. Most FCs don't have more than a dozen or so active members while wards are designed to accommodate 30 different owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Do you honestly expect SE to operate 1000+ wards per world when the 96 currently operating already tax their resources?
Every system is going to have flaws because they're created and run by flawed human beings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
SE can't dig deep into creating restrictions on FCs because not every group of players wants their FC to be the same thing. They need to allow flexibility within a system to accommodate those differences to a reasonable degree, and there will always be those who try to exploit things for personal gain.
The flawed housing system can be fixed without even touching the flawed FC system. SE just has to accept that wards are not serving the needs of the expanding player base adequately and focus on improving the instanced system.
I'm probably in the minority on this but I would be 100% okay with losing my current medium if SE deleted the current housing system altogether to replace it with a quality housing system at the level of Wildstar, RIFT, or ESO housing, one that serves every player with an interest in housing equally regardless of local world population instead of one that only serves the lucky on less populated worlds.
Like it or not, there's a very good chance that every NA and EU world will be Balmung by the time Endwalker releases. All those high profile streamers abandoning WoW and coming here are showing players from other games that FFXIV isn't such a terrible "weeb" game after all. SE would be foolish not to capitalize on the one feature this game has that WoW never added despite constant requests from WoW players throughout the game's history - housing. -
08-03-2021, 01:23 PMAlmagnus1That's why I'm suggesting the initial price for the ward needs to be set (at minimum) for half a billion gil. Hopefully it will help pull people out of the wards, or give someone that wants to own a ward a way to do that without screwing up the market for the rest of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
With Asmongold hitting Heavensward, and his YouTube content being generally positive and respective for the FFXIV MSQ... he's basically done the one thing a Japanese MMO has had difficulty doing and basically normalized FFXIV for the masses. Asmongold's Heavensward entrance video where Cactaur rolled out the red carpet for him is about the best marketing we can get for this game. Going by https://ffxivcensus.com/ , NA characters account for almost HALF of the overall characters created - so (at minimum) a South American and possibly a fourth North American datacenter are warranted, and the NA housing mess is going to get far worse before it improves - especially since SE is having a very hard time getting the hardware for a datacenter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Realistically, I'm expecting problems with Endwalker launch that will make Raubahn and Pipin Savage look like a cake walk because we're too successful and the server hardware is too rare. -
08-05-2021, 02:25 PMJojoyaIt will pull a handful of gil capped individuals out of the wards because they're the only ones that can afford it and they'll get to have an entire ward to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
It does nothing to help FCs or their members. Legitimate FCs rarely have that sort of gil.
It does nothing to give SE the real world resources they need to increase the number of wards so more players can get a house.
It's another idea that needs to die.