is Paladin a good enough tank?

I don't have my paladin yet.... just need to complete the quest to get it. But from what i've read in these forums, Warrior was doing better then Paladins at tanking. I got my GLD to 37 and i saw what the PLD abilties are and i'm not very impressed. I know they are tweaking it in 1.22b but do you think that PLD is a good enough tank as it is or would you change it?


I find their DPS to be too low and they lack much AOE spells imo. In another MMO i played which i won't name, Paladins are High DEF, High HP, low DPS against single target but have high DPS against multiple targets due to a good AOE spells that output a lot of damage. They got AOE/DOT spells that generate a lot of enemity etc...

This is really just my opinion but paladins could use some of the above.

Maybe some of you think they are fine the way they are, but if you could improve it how would you do it?

PLDs are not supposed to DPS in this game. They are supposed to be the defensive tank, while WAR is supposed to be the offensive tank. The problem is that there is no benefit to using a defensive tank yet.

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Originally Posted by lshumaker

PLDs are not supposed to DPS in this game. They are supposed to be the defensive tank, while WAR is supposed to be the offensive tank. The problem is that there is no benefit to using a defensive tank yet.

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Ppl keep saying pld is not a dps tank that's true, but come on anyone in thier right mind knows that doing a full combo only giving you a total of 550 dmg is just retarded no class dmg should be that low in this game. That's why the enmity combo from pld does jack shit cause low dmg does not make it even give more hate than provoke =/.

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Originally Posted by lshumaker

PLDs are not supposed to DPS in this game. They are supposed to be the defensive tank, while WAR is supposed to be the offensive tank. The problem is that there is no benefit to using a defensive tank yet.

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But doesn't enemity depend on DPS? I was under the impression that it was.. i could be wrong. But if that is the case then they need to up to DPS for PLD. That's is why i'm thinking they should make PLD more of AOE specialist type of tank due tot he fact that hey can use spells and Warrior more of a straight up DPS tank, with high DPS regular attack and 1 on 1 stuff.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Ppl keep saying pld is not a dps tank that's true, but come on anyone in thier right mind knows that doing a full combo only giving you a total of 550 dmg is just retarded no class dmg should be that low in this game. That's why the enmity combo from pld does jack shit cause low dmg does not make it even give more hate than provoke =/.

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I understand S-E's vision of PLD having just very high def but LOW dps. But the problem is that DPS does influence enemity and with their lack of DPS it does hurt them as a tank. They haven't though of enough ways to compensate for their lower the average DPS.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

But doesn't enemity depend on DPS? I was under the impression that it was.. i could be wrong. But if that is the case then they need to up to DPS for PLD. That's is why i'm thinking they should make PLD more of AOE specialist type of tank due tot he fact that hey can use spells and Warrior more of a straight up DPS tank, with high DPS regular attack and 1 on 1 stuff.

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In most games I've played tank abilities enmity generation is only partially linked to damage - you usually get the enmity from the damage plus an extra burst of enmity applied by the ability itself.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

In most games I've played tank abilities enmity generation is only partially linked to damage - you usually get the enmity from the damage plus an extra burst of enmity applied by the ability itself.

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That's good too. But when fighting a large crowd of mobs...... what do you do with the lack of good AOE spells? I think we should get at least one good AOE spell that also does DOT(damage over time) and generate high enemity. The overall DPS of the spell deoesn't need to be high at all but the spell itself could generate high enemity.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

But doesn't enemity depend on DPS? I was under the impression that it was.. i could be wrong. But if that is the case then they need to up to DPS for PLD. That's is why i'm thinking they should make PLD more of AOE specialist type of tank due tot he fact that hey can use spells and Warrior more of a straight up DPS tank, with high DPS regular attack and 1 on 1 stuff.

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War is more of the AoE specialist. The problem is that War is just to good at tanking everything right now.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Ppl keep saying pld is not a dps tank that's true, but come on anyone in thier right mind knows that doing a full combo only giving you a total of 550 dmg is just retarded no class dmg should be that low in this game. That's why the enmity combo from pld does jack shit cause low dmg does not make it even give more hate than provoke =/.

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I do agree that they need a damage boost, especially after seeing that number. I was just under the impression that the OP wanted a PLD's damage to come close to War.

Personally, I would like to see PLDs able to block magic attacks with their shield as well as remove the hole frontal blocking only with their abilities.

A quote I liked about this subject. By Rydin

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Lastly... think about this

with MRD>WAR, most tanking abilities come from the job (WAR)
with GLA>PLD, most tanking abilities come from the class (GLA)

Since Job abilities are exclusive and most class abilities are not, that means WAR has access to it's tanking abilities as well as those from GLA... While PLD only has the GLA tanking abilities, since MRD hardly has any

Reach OUT

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I think this explains the issue to why WAR is a more popular/effective tank than PLD.

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Originally Posted by lshumaker

War is more of the AoE specialist. The problem is that War is just to good at tanking everything right now.



I do agree that they need a damage boost, especially after seeing that number. I was just under the impression that the OP wanted a PLD's damage to come close to War.

Personally, I would like to see PLDs able to block magic attacks with their shield as well as remove the hole frontal blocking only with their abilities.

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In my mind Paladin should always outperform WAR as a tank and WAR output better pure DPS then paladin. This is not the case currently and needs to be fixed. A lot of games got more then one class able to tank but they always have one class that tanks better then the others and for us that should be Paladin. If they can't make that happen then let them become backup healers which also makes sense for a Paladin. To me they don't stand out enough.

mrd used to be the best then they fixed gla to be the best then jobs came out now were having the same problem i dont get it there practally the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I don't have my paladin yet.... just need to complete the quest to get it. But from what i've read in these forums, Warrior was doing better then Paladins at tanking. I got my GLD to 37 and i saw what the PLD abilties are and i'm not very impressed. I know they are tweaking it in 1.22b but do you think that PLD is a good enough tank as it is or would you change it?


I find their DPS to be too low and they lack much AOE spells imo. In another MMO i played which i won't name, Paladins are High DEF, High HP, low DPS against single target but have high DPS against multiple targets due to a good AOE spells that output a lot of damage. They got AOE/DOT spells that generate a lot of enemity etc...

This is really just my opinion but paladins could use some of the above.

Maybe some of you think they are fine the way they are, but if you could improve it how would you do it?

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PLDs are not bad tanks its just that WAR out performs them in tanking and DPS. Also PLD has same amount of AOE abilites as WAR, WARs just happen to be damage abilities as PLD happen to be enmity/buff abilities.

Issue with Paladin isnt low damage its the low HP pool and the general if your WHM is good enough you dont need PLD heal abilities. Seems to me PLD traded damage for the ability to heal/raise.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

PLDs are not bad tanks its just that WAR out performs them in tanking and DPS. Also PLD has same amount of AOE abilites as WAR, WARs just happen to be damage abilities as PLD happen to be enmity/buff abilities.

Issue with Paladin isnt low damage its the low HP pool and the general if your WHM is good enough you dont need PLD heal abilities. Seems to me PLD traded damage for the ability to heal/raise.

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Then they should trade heal/raise back for some damage. I really don't like the idea of PLD being weaklings with heavy armor. Maybe even trade off some healing spells for offensive spells.. they are holy knights after so maybe giving them offensive spells isnt such a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Then they should trade heal/raise back for some damage. I really don't like the idea of PLD being weaklings with heavy armor. Maybe even trade off some healing spells for offensive spells.. they are holy knights after so maybe giving them offensive spells isnt such a bad idea.

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I do not like this at all, sorry to disagree. :P

My vision of PLD is a hybrid job with very strong defense, low DPS and support utility, namely healing and Raise (also usually we include some sort of utility to combat the undead). I absolutely do not want to lose that functionality. Luckily, I think SE agrees with me so I'm not too worried.

Then again, recently translated was Yoshi saying they are "fixing" PLD in 1.22b (as well as nerfing WAR). It seemed to me that the general overview he gave indicated they would be increasing PLD's ability to DPS. This is simply not in line with my own personal view of a Paladin - see above. What I want is increased defense/HP, and YES increased enmity generation, but from abilities rather than DPS. That just seems like a lame fix to me...

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Originally Posted by Wincy

I do not like this at all, sorry to disagree. :P

My vision of PLD is a hybrid job with very strong defense, low DPS and support utility, namely healing and Raise (also usually we include some sort of utility to combat the undead). I absolutely do not want to lose that functionality. Luckily, I think SE agrees with me so I'm not too worried.

Then again, recently translated was Yoshi saying they are "fixing" PLD in 1.22b (as well as nerfing WAR). It seemed to me that the general overview he gave indicated they would be increasing PLD's ability to DPS. This is simply not in line with my own personal view of a Paladin - see above. What I want is increased defense/HP, and YES increased enmity generation, but from abilities rather than DPS. That just seems like a lame fix to me...

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I get what you mean but when you think about it paladins are knights, powerful warriors. A skilled warrior with a huge armor and sword. How does it make sense for them to be weak? They should be the main tank and so i can only imagine them taking on a horde of enemies on their own, slashing and hacking around, dealing massive damage to keep the aggro while the healer keeps them alive.

and talking about the healer... how come they never run out of MP? I was in party of 7 the other day killing Brutal Sheeps and i swear to god the WHM was doing all the work while never running out of MP. I was on GLD and could barley keep aggro 40% of the time but it felt that a tank wasnt even needed as the WHM buffs and heals made us look invincible. It's like the WHM is tanking and healing at the same time. To me it made no sense. Also with a L36 GLD i got 0 AOE damage spells to pull in the mobs, almost gotta try to take mobs one after one which sucked.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

and talking about the healer... how come they never run out of MP? I was in party of 7 the other day killing Brutal Sheeps and i swear to god the WHM was doing all the work while never running out of MP. I was on GLD and could barley keep aggro 40% of the time but it felt that a tank wasnt even needed as the WHM buffs and heals made us look invincible. It's like the WHM is tanking and healing at the same time. To me it made no sense. Also with a L36 GLD i got 0 AOE damage spells to pull in the mobs, almost gotta try to take mobs one after one which sucked.

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Yea I think it's weird the way party mechanics work, especially in XP groups. There is no real synergy, moreso just do whatever you feel like. It's in sharp contrast especially to XI, where strong party play and role awareness was necessary for survival.

I think this is a fault of the mobs rather than the job design, however. XI was all about 1 mob at a time, whereas XIV so far likes to focus on large quantities of trash instead. I do hope they develop more viable single-target encounters in the future.