House camping function

instead of people killing themselves to camp a house for 40 hours, I wonder if it would be possible to have a house-camp button
you park your character there, click "camp", and then you can physically leave your computer. when the timer triggers, 1 random player in "Camp" mode gets picked and gets that house.
it's functionally the same as the current system, except you don't have to kill yourself sitting there pressing 2 buttons until someone relocates to the plot you are at.
if this was implementable, it seems to me that bots and macros would have no more advantage than anyone else, everyone would have the same chance to lock their character into a plot and have a chance of getting it.

That's actually one of the better takes on how to address the problem I've seen posted compared to the usual lottery/raffle suggestions (assuming SE isn't planning to overhaul the purchase system entirely).

Would effectively limit players to one "entry" per account since the character would still need to be at the placard in camp mode when the timer expires.

Addresses player's need to be able to move away from console/computer at times though does not release player to be doing other things in game. On the other hand it effectively forces players that prefer to just check at intervals so they can also do other things in game to enter camp mode.

Would players be free to enter/leave/re-enter camp mode so if someone wants to do something else then return they can?

How would you suggest addressing the gil part? Does the player need to have sufficient gil on their character to pay the purchase price to be able to enter Camp mode or would they have a short period to retrieve the gil once selected? (honestly not a fan of the latter with this system because then a player could camp with multiple accounts and trade the gil around only if they "win")

the idea is absolute minimal change. if you cant buy it now, you still couldn't buy it with my idea. the point is to replace the current forced player real life camping "system" with something less punishing but still maintaining the core function of stopping the scalping, while ALSO making botting and macros pointless (of course doesn't help hacks but that's an SE problem).

I didn't really think of leaving. currently you can leave anytime, so i would think you could still leave anytime. the main downside to leaving is that if the timer runs out while you aren't there, you have zero chance. seems like enough of a tradeoff too me.

of course, all of that would depend on what the game can actually do, which I am unsure of. maybe serverload would require some kind of camp cooldown. once you stop you cant camp again for 15 minutes or something.

Im comfortable co-signing an idea like this(not that my opinion means anything). The system wasnt designed with camping and click spamming in mind(the devs thought you would check, see it wasnt open, and come back to check later), but if they arent going to completely redo the system then something simple-ish like this would get rid of a lot of complaints people have now. Combine that with a small tweak to the relocation rules(i liked the idea of transfering whatever timer was on the purchased house to the newly opened lot so that it would continue just getting smaller rather then resetting, and upping the cooldown on relocations to once per weekly reset) and 95% of these threads would be gone.

As the devs said, "players aren't supposed to sit around and click for hours."

Just because some people have the stupid idea to do this for hours, doesn't mean you should allow bot use.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

As the devs said, "players aren't supposed to sit around and click for hours."

Just because some people have the stupid idea to do this for hours, doesn't mean you should allow bot use.

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nobody said you should allow bots.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

How would you suggest addressing the gil part? Does the player need to have sufficient gil on their character to pay the purchase price to be able to enter Camp mode or would they have a short period to retrieve the gil once selected? (honestly not a fan of the latter with this system because then a player could camp with multiple accounts and trade the gil around only if they "win")

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maybe pay the price for the house to camp and when you want to leave a window shows up that says "your about to leave are you sure" when yes get the gil back and the camping ends

/swoopsinandtransers

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

/swoopsinandtransers

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In all seriousness that is a better take. I approve

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's actually one of the better takes on how to address the problem I've seen posted

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Same.

I actually like this idea. Have it be like a channeling that lasts 24 hours. Move or de-target placard to break channel, click again to start over. Timer ends, one channeler wins.

And if the house is off-timer when you reach it, instead the channel would be like attuning to an aetheryte, just a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

channeling that lasts 24 hours. Move or de-target placard to break channel, click again to start over. Timer ends, one channeler wins.

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Originally Posted by Darrgo

maybe pay the price for the house to camp and when you want to leave a window shows up that says "your about to leave are you sure" when yes get the gil back and the camping ends

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I like both of these. deposit your gil and then come back every 24 hours at least.

Plot is relinquished [placard does state for Relocation or Sale during their respective phases] > Invisible 10-hour-timer starts for Relocation (that's 42% of a real day to decide). Once Relocation timer is up no more Relocation and the plot goes up for sale > next 0-4 hours that plot can not be bought (that is minimum of 58% of a real day to login and see there could potentially be a plot up, given the relocation goes unphased) > 4-12 hours the invisible timer starts (like the current one) > invisible timer goes off or after 12 hours > the plot goes up for insta-purchase. The minimum amount of turn around time would be 14 hours from relinquish to purchase with max being 26 hours. Relocation still gets priority but timers favor a buyer. Lastly, the knowledge of a rough buy window with only an 8 hour spam window is priceless. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by artlessknave

instead of people killing themselves to camp a house for 40 hours, I wonder if it would be possible to have a house-camp button
you park your character there, click "camp", and then you can physically leave your computer. when the timer triggers, 1 random player in "Camp" mode gets picked and gets that house.
it's functionally the same as the current system, except you don't have to kill yourself sitting there pressing 2 buttons until someone relocates to the plot you are at.
if this was implementable, it seems to me that bots and macros would have no more advantage than anyone else, everyone would have the same chance to lock their character into a plot and have a chance of getting it.

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If you won the house is there a confirmation button? Would that need to be clicked in a certain amount of time? Or pay up front and the house is auto-assigned to the winning character, everyone else 'camping' is refunded? Can players still relocate while you're camping? How long are the timers for waiting for the plot? This is a really neat idea btw

I like the idea of Op too. Much Better than what we have now

I also wanted to post and say this idea sounds nice

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Originally Posted by Thorncraft

If you won the house is there a confirmation button? Would that need to be clicked in a certain amount of time? Or pay up front and the house is auto-assigned to the winning character, everyone else 'camping' is refunded? Can players still relocate while you're camping? How long are the timers for waiting for the plot? This is a really neat idea btw

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be completely prepared to buy it as soon as the timer expires, wether as a deposit or insta pay would depend on what can actually be implemented.
again, as close to existing as possible so that it neither changes the current flow so SE might actually do it while simple enough that spagetti code might not be a problem and SE might *actually* do it.
relocation was originally out of scope so would work the same without a better idea. the idea was to get rid of the placard spamming that punishes real players while being ludicrously easy to automate. a ~10 line script is all it takes. if all you did was park your toon there for the night and somebody relocated, oh well, you weren't there spamming the placard for 22 hours, so while it sucks...it doesnt

suck.

absolute.

balls.

like the current system. if I were implenting it, i would be looking for ideas, but if I were implementing it I would be rebuilding the thing or creating instanced housing. I want a treehouse in raktika. I just like the idea.

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Originally Posted by Thorncraft

Plot is relinquished [placard does state for Relocation or Sale during their respective phases] > Invisible 10-hour-timer starts for Relocation (that's 42% of a real day to decide). Once Relocation timer is up no more Relocation and the plot goes up for sale > next 0-4 hours that plot can not be bought (that is minimum of 58% of a real day to login and see there could potentially be a plot up, given the relocation goes unphased) > 4-12 hours the invisible timer starts (like the current one) > invisible timer goes off or after 12 hours > the plot goes up for insta-purchase. The minimum amount of turn around time would be 14 hours from relinquish to purchase with max being 26 hours. Relocation still gets priority but timers favor a buyer. Lastly, the knowledge of a rough buy window with only an 8 hour spam window is priceless. What do you think?

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sorry, I can't even follow that, so there is no way for me to give an opinion on it. the idea is minimalism that might actually happen, not a revamp that clearly aint happening.

Bots would still win over human beings and there still is th edge that PC users will and can use 3rd party software to steal away housing from PS4 and 5 users who can not do such thing themself and with that creating an unfair advantage.

x amount of clicks per placecard per day, would flush all that out and add a somewhat similar system to what you propose.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Bots would still win over human beings and there still is th edge that PC users will and can use 3rd party software to steal away housing from PS4 and 5 users who can not do such thing themself and with that creating an unfair advantage.

x amount of clicks per placecard per day, would flush all that out and add a somewhat similar system to what you propose.

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Oof placard spam on console.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Bots would still win over human beings and there still is th edge that PC users will and can use 3rd party software to steal away housing from PS4 and 5 users who can not do such thing themself and with that creating an unfair advantage.

x amount of clicks per placecard per day, would flush all that out and add a somewhat similar system to what you propose.

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What is this in response to? Because I'm not sure how a camping function would favor bots in any way. It favors people with nothing else to do in game at any given time which can be anyone. If you're responding to Thorncraft's word vomit, please don't. They have posted that in several threads as well as their own. This thread is about the camping function and I'd love to stay on topic with questions and suggestions to make this something SE might actually do.

Personally, I'm in favor of the deposit that's refunded when someone else gets the plot. I'm also not entirely convinced transfers shouldn't just wait with everyone else, but that's certainly not a deal-breaker for me. Removing the punishing need to click if you really want a house would be enough.

Also, would you even need the random timer anymore with this? Like... as long as there was some amount of time for word to spread about the plot, everyone could know they need to be in camp mode by a certain time and there's essentially just a raffle to all the characters present with the gil.

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Originally Posted by drkekyll

Also, would you even need the random timer anymore with this? Like... as long as there was some amount of time for word to spread about the plot, everyone could know they need to be in camp mode by a certain time and there's essentially just a raffle to all the characters present with the gil.

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It would depend a lot on the unmet demand for a given server. Having 300 players (zone instance limit) all standing at a relatively precise location is not good for server stability and generally is murder on the players' consoles and computers. If only a couple of dozen players were showing up, then the timer could go away.

Keep in mind some players showing up wouldn't even be there to purchase. They would only be there to mess around spamming spell effects and what not because they'd have a captive audience. The servers would still be trying to communicate that the effects are happening to my system even if I have their display disabled. That in turn is going to disrupt the communication between game server and player client that the player is still in camp mode to purchase the plot.

I'd say keep the timer in place, just make the max duration shorter than the current 24 hours or whatever it is.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That in turn is going to disrupt the communication between game server and player client that the player is still in camp mode to purchase the plot.

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I don't think that would have any impact on the game server knowing you're still in camp mode unless you were trying to toggle it on at the last minute (in which case, that's unfortunate but *shrug*). Otherwise it can be coded to avoid that issue. The rest of your concerns are valid though. But not knowing how long I'd need to wait around to know if I get the plot or not is the worst part about the current system to me. I don't really care about the clicking as much as not knowing exactly when and for how long to be concerned.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Bots would still win over human beings and there still is th edge that PC users will and can use 3rd party software to steal away housing from PS4 and 5 users who can not do such thing themself and with that creating an unfair advantage.

x amount of clicks per placecard per day, would flush all that out and add a somewhat similar system to what you propose.

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no, they wouldn't, that's the whole point, to give the bots and macros the exact same chances of a real player. the current system rewards macros. macroing the placard is *stupidly* easy. pretty sure I can write a macro for it *from memory*. it takes like 10 lines, that's part of what gave me the idea for this, to make macroing pointless in the first place.

I'm not against having to refresh "camp mode" periodically, but since that could likely just be macrod anyway, what does it actually accomplish, other than again, specifically giving bots and macros the advantage? 24 hours is actually a bad number, 10-20 is reasonable. too often and it just encourages automation again, too long and people will just leave it for a week.
hacks is outside my intended scope, that's an SE problem. the main bot that I have seen for ffxiv doesn't hack the game, it just reads RAM content which is not protected, or reads network packets, which are again, not protected. nothing I can think of to do about that other than using malware like other asian game companies do.

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Originally Posted by drkekyll

What is this in response to? Because I'm not sure how a camping function would favor bots in any way. It favors people with nothing else to do in game at any given time which can be anyone. If you're responding to Thorncraft's word vomit, please don't. They have posted that in several threads as well as their own. This thread is about the camping function and I'd love to stay on topic with questions and suggestions to make this something SE might actually do.

Personally, I'm in favor of the deposit that's refunded when someone else gets the plot. I'm also not entirely convinced transfers shouldn't just wait with everyone else, but that's certainly not a deal-breaker for me. Removing the punishing need to click if you really want a house would be enough.

Also, would you even need the random timer anymore with this? Like... as long as there was some amount of time for word to spread about the plot, everyone could know they need to be in camp mode by a certain time and there's essentially just a raffle to all the characters present with the gil.

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exactly how you pay for it would be up to SE. pay a deposit and refund, or pay as soon as timer ends, or something else that accomplishes similar, all depends on what can actually be implemented. maybe it would take the hamsters to long to calculate the refund for 30 players all putting in a deposit. i just don't know, but to match the current system, you would have to have the money ready, the same as if you were spamming the placard. maybe you get a ticket and have an hour to pay before the next person, but that becomes more of a lottery system, which they have clearly refused, or are unable, to implement. again, minimalism is the goal.

I would leave the random timer because it aims at a different problem, scalping. you cant buy a plot and sell it for ludicrous prices if you cant choose the buyer. as soon as you have a predictable timer, plot flipping becomes viable.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It would depend a lot on the unmet demand for a given server. Having 300 players (zone instance limit) all standing at a relatively precise location is not good for server stability and generally is murder on the players' consoles and computers. If only a couple of dozen players were showing up, then the timer could go away.

Keep in mind some players showing up wouldn't even be there to purchase. They would only be there to mess around spamming spell effects and what not because they'd have a captive audience. The servers would still be trying to communicate that the effects are happening to my system even if I have their display disabled. That in turn is going to disrupt the communication between game server and player client that the player is still in camp mode to purchase the plot.

I'd say keep the timer in place, just make the max duration shorter than the current 24 hours or whatever it is.

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absolutely, server load is an issue. I've thought of having something like a duty instance, where only the active campers show up, but then that adds load to the duty servers (possibly fairly small overall though. i think there is like 1 plot open at a time on my entire server, but still a consideration). I would have to leave the details of the implementation to SE, because I just don't have access to the infrastructure to know what can and cant be done.
it possible that this would allow so many people to start camping that it could be a huge issue.

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Originally Posted by artlessknave

I would leave the random timer because it aims at a different problem, scalping. you cant buy a plot and sell it for ludicrous prices if you cant choose the buyer. as soon as you have a predictable timer, plot flipping becomes viable.

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This problem is solved by a timer at all; it needn't be random. As long as there is time for other people to get to the plot to click, you can't guarantee a direct transaction. FC selling is easier. The random aspect adds very little here, and the length of the random timer just favors people who can AFK for the entire window meaning you're encouraging people to not play the game.

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Originally Posted by drkekyll

This problem is solved by a timer at all; it needn't be random. As long as there is time for other people to get to the plot to click, you can't guarantee a direct transaction. FC selling is easier. The random aspect adds very little here, and the length of the random timer just favors people who can AFK for the entire window meaning you're encouraging people to not play the game.

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yes, you can, because if the timer is 4 hours long, you dont relenquish the plot until a time when you know that 4 hours later there will be the least number of players online, and your buyer knows the exact time. THAT is why it's a random timer, as soon as it's a predictable value you can manipulate it to increase the changes of what you want. if you can get 10 plots for 50 mil gold each, and sell 80% of them sucessfully for 150 mil each, you still made a profit over the loss on the 20%. if you can convince your buyer to pay the full price up front...then you made even more profit. that kind of scamming is allowed in EVE, but not ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by artlessknave

yes, you can, because if the timer is 4 hours long, you dont relenquish the plot until a time when you know that 4 hours later there will be the least number of players online, and your buyer knows the exact time. THAT is why it's a random timer, as soon as it's a predictable value you can manipulate it to increase the changes of what you want. if you can get 10 plots for 50 mil gold each, and sell 80% of them sucessfully for 150 mil each, you still made a profit over the loss on the 20%. if you can convince your buyer to pay the full price up front...then you made even more profit. that kind of scamming is allowed in EVE, but not ffxiv.

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From the viewpoint of the flipper, they aren't going to care. They get their money for relinquishing the plot.

The risk is on the buyer side. They have no guarantee they will be the one who gets the plot.

There are a lot of players online even in the early morning hours, more than people who have 9 to 5 lives seem to think. The numbers may not be as large as they are in prime time but there would still be competition for the plot.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

From the viewpoint of the flipper, they aren't going to care. They get their money for relinquishing the plot.

The risk is on the buyer side. They have no guarantee they will be the one who gets the plot.

There are a lot of players online even in the early morning hours, more than people who have 9 to 5 lives seem to think. The numbers may not be as large as they are in prime time but there would still be competition for the plot.

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yes, but there is always someone who doesnt understand and tries to buy it not knowing how the system works. SE wont let that even exist as a possibility, so the random timer will stay, because thats its purpose, to make that so impossible that scalping doesn't exist. that's more important to them then players getting houses, clearly.

Better system would be if am at a ward for more than 30 minutes, you wont be able to click placecards anymore, especially if having been standing still in a radius of 15m of it as in setting up perimeter detectors around open plots, after that you will fget a 3 hour lockdown before can click a placecard again, timer will be cumulative of course, meaning cant just enter, click go away enter again and or activate a timer in which amount of time you can be clicking it for then expecting a lockout for 3 hours.

At least people would get to play the game as well.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Better system would be if am at a ward for more than 30 minutes, you wont be able to click placecards anymore, especially if having been standing still in a radius of 15m of it as in setting up perimeter detectors around open plots, after that you will fget a 3 hour lockdown before can click a placecard again, timer will be cumulative of course, meaning cant just enter, click go away enter again and or activate a timer in which amount of time you can be clicking it for then expecting a lockout for 3 hours.

At least people would get to play the game as well.

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no. better idea is the lotto they are aparently going to make. if they do that then I dont care anymore.