A simple update that could make bard feel like an actual bard.

1. add a talent that allows bards to use Pelotion in battle, and when pelotion is played by a bard it does not fall off when entering battle.

2. Add an aoe regen song for bard

3. Add an aoe mana regen song for bard (or rather give it back)

4. Reskin all/most of bards Attack spells as being shot/wielded by an instrument such as flute/harp/voilin/ ect (instead of only bow and arrows)

5. add a spell that temporarily buffs the potencies of active songs

I think with these simple buffs/changes bard would actually feel and look like a bard.

Ideally, I'd go a fair bit further (and just a bit differently), but this vein of suggestion cuts a good balance between impact and feasibility, so have my Like, with a caveat: I don't want to be shooting any damn musical notes. The bow is fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

1. add a talent that allows bards to use Pelotion in battle, and when pelotion is played by a bard it does not fall off when entering battle.

---

This would be nice, something like a 5s Peloton on a 60s cooldown. I don't think it should be stronger than Sprint, so we make it last half as long on the same cooldown, and it'll have a lower speed modifier. It'd still be useful for situations like E12S Bomb Boulders Wave 2 where people can be a bit slow reacting to where they move for the blue bomb, but Sprint is still the main tool for when you need to haul it from one end of the arena to the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

2. Add an aoe regen song for bard

---

Fine if it's a Regen since DNC already has a flat Heal. Would be different enough and still serve a purpose. Maybe an upgrade to Nature's Minne where it increases healing in an AoE and then applies a Regen because God knows Minne is just straight up trash right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

3. Add an aoe mana regen song for bard (or rather give it back)

---

Absolutely not, or at least not BRD exclusive. As is, MP is kind of a joke for all Jobs that use it. If they make MP management important again and BRD is the only one with Refresh then congratulations, BRD is the only Physical Ranged getting picked and balance is dead. If they ever decide to bring back Refresh then it needs to be a Role Skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

4. Reskin all/most of bards Attack spells as being shot/wielded by an instrument such as flute/harp/voilin/ ect (instead of only bow and arrows)

---

Hard pass, BRD is supposed to be the marriage of Archery and Music. I agree that right now it swings super hard towards Archery which isn't good, but you don't want to push the pendulum the complete opposite direction and wipe out the origin of the Job. BRD, by definition in the Job Quests, is an Archer that started singing to deal with the pain they felt watching allies die on the battlefield, and Bows were their original instruments. A healthy 50/50 is what they should strive for, not reskinning most or all of BRD's abilities and effectively creating a new Job disconnected from it's origin. Both Bow and Music are key parts to their identity and without it you don't have the FFXIV BRD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

5. add a spell that temporarily buffs the potencies of active songs

---

I think it would be nice to get a spell back since I do miss Foe Requiem. Buffing the Songs also sounds nice, but do you mean the Potency of our Proc'd abilities like Pitch Perfect and Bloodletter, or do you mean the passive abilities like Wanderer's +2% Crit Rate? Because if it's the former then SE would need to figure out a way to make buffed Army's Paeon not suck or give people RSI if it jacks our GCD through the roof, and if you mean the passive abilities then those are so weak that doubling them wouldn't make people really care. Still, I do like the idea of a Power Chord, or a fourth Song, preferably something that adjusts BRD onto a rotation that actually lines up with other Jobs since the 30/30/20 Song rotation is just so off compared to the standard 60s and 90s rotations. And again, MP management for BRD since that was important for so long before getting chucked in the bin because some players sucked at using Foe Requiem.

Beyond that though, BRD does need some more updates and QoL improvements. Cetonis covers a lot of the problems in their thread, such as the lack of charges on Bloodletter, the lack of charges on Empyreal Arrow, and how BRD's rotation tends to drift a lot because people don't want to end their current Song early. Worth a read and highlights that BRD does need more than a few simple buffs and changes to actually feel good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

1. add a talent that allows bards to use Pelotion in battle, and when pelotion is played by a bard it does not fall off when entering battle.

2. Add an aoe regen song for bard

3. Add an aoe mana regen song for bard (or rather give it back)

4. Reskin all/most of bards Attack spells as being shot/wielded by an instrument such as flute/harp/voilin/ ect (instead of only bow and arrows)

5. add a spell that temporarily buffs the potencies of active songs

I think with these simple buffs/changes bard would actually feel and look like a bard.

---

1. All ranged should be able to use peloton for a short sprint. We have Lost Impetus and that's the best cooldown in Bozja.
2. Why not? Minne is eh so it could replace Minne.
3. Useless, Healers and Casters now have unlimited MP and it would break the DRK (or rather buff his damage output through an way not intended)
4. Too much work. You know how MCH rework got the "But all the flipping and gunplay is useless now"? You'd get that with BRD.
5. Foes Requiem? Why not.

Yet I don't see how these solutions would make the BRD feels like a BRD. There's much more than that needed to fix the BRD.
I'm no BRD specialist, many can make a better job than myself and a thread was linked above, it's a great read.

Note: Gonna preface this by saying I joined post 5.3. So I have no idea what BRD was like in any previous version of this game. I don't do any savages or extremes so not gonna speak to about balance too much.

I completely understand why people want BRD to feel more like an actual BRD, and I'm all for the class having more options however I don't agree with reskinning the attack spells. What drew me into BRD was the bow. I picked the class because archers are cool and if the class got changed using instruments for their kit I would be pretty bummed out. As of right now I like the current identity being Archer skills for damage & Music skills for support, though I definitely think the class could use more support skills.

1. Could make it into some combat usable form, but not really a big deal or frankly all that interesting in practice. It'd mostly be annoying to hit it before every mechanic, unless it had a long cooldown.

2. Sure

3. Hell no, Refresh was a terrible idea

4. Never going to happen, no point even contemplating it

5. Song passives should be scrapped, not leaned into. SE needs to re-think Bard's party damage support profile from the ground up.

Some countersuggestions, now that I've some time to write more than a couple lines:

MP Songs
Personally, I'd only like to see a MP song return (and it must then be as a persistent song) only if MP were itself made a more pervasive and interesting mechanic. (Some suggestions as to how to make it so are in the box below.)

This would, first and foremost, require that MP actually be something to play around — rather than a seemingly arbitrary and typically irrelevant constraint or, at most, a charge counter attached to resurrection spells and a redundancy by which to prevent Medica II spam or the like.

Let us start, then, with removing anything that does not actually aid in decisive play. Lucid Dreaming, which can effectively just be hit each time it's refreshed, is therefore gone. That in turns forces us to confront what uses of MP ought to matter and what ought not to, while giving us room for more nuance-capable mechanics.

For now, let's try both: one broad tuning change and one new mechanic.

• For this new mechanic, we'll simultaneously remove what was most annoying about MP and add a reason to care about it — as %MP decreases, the output of your MP-consuming actions decreases (by up to 33%), but your MP regen rate increases (by up to 300%). This offers us a further choice: do we want players to perhaps use expenses just a bit sparingly even when over, say, 80% MP, as to always remain at 100% throughput, or do we want this to only really take effect around 60% MP or less? If we want the first, we apply this mechanic linearly (-16.7% potency but +150% regen at 50% MP); if we want the second, more relaxed version, we apply instead apply it quadratically. For now, I'll take the quadratic approach.
  
  
• For the tuning changes, let us do two things. First, we'll decrease the MP costs of core rotational skills, such that MP would not dip into any range that'd suffer potency loss when just rotating as usual, and if dipping into any range where regen is increased, you'd actually gain MP over normal rotation. To illustrate, standard single-target RDM rotation would be faintly MP-positive, but Verraise would put them in a hole that would cost them at least some small degree of throughput for a time, and raising half a party all at once would put a noticeable toll on the RDM. Second and opposite that, we'll we'll attach MP costs to abilities, as well, so that they don't so buoy throughput or make themselves even more nearly the be-all and end-all of pre-Savage healing. In fact, we'll make them rather pricy, to account for the uptime they save, too. In that way, their use marks an increased opportunity for damage-dealing or burst-healing, at due cost.

These would in turn force some further polishing changes.

• First, because MP would be more integral, we could no longer ignore the disparity between faster and slower jobs or builds. That is to say, we'd need to better balance the resource efficiency of varying GCD speeds. Such is simple: we merely decrease the MP granted per tick by 20% and then have MP tick per player GCD's time, rather than on the standard server tick.
• Second, because players start at critical levels of MP upon being rezzed, the rez penalty itself would have to be decreased. However, that in turn gives MP-granting tools further room to shine, as there's effectively a portion of resurrection sickness's debuff that they can alleviate.
• Third, we'd want to address the wonkiness of BLM, by limiting its MP nullification to only its own, not affecting MP grants or the bonus portion %regen-increasing effects.
• Finally, we'd have to consider around what %MP, roughly, we'd want AoE rotations to become MP-neutral. This gives us some further choice, as we could perhaps afford to tune AoE higher if its extended use would force us down to 40% or even 60% MP. Such would better fit the pre-Shadowbringers design, but be more complex than we are now used to. Let us for now say we simply give it the same relative costs as the single-target rotations, making the distinction irrelevant.

Alright, with the situation set, let's consider what Bard could do with MP-granting tools. They'd no longer be altogether essential, as players cannot be so resource-starved as to be forced into inaction, but nor would they be entirely redundant when extreme expenses are unnecessary. They'd be more flexible, feeling less awful to lack but also more able to find use when their ideal conditions of use are not met.

Only then would I want MP-granting tools returned to Bard. And even, then, I feel it must not be on a fire-and-forget, use-on-refresh CD, but rather an actual song at actual cost to the Bard's own throughput, thus allowing Bard itself more versatility by only be punished for carrying an MP-granting tool to the extent the Bard actually uses that tool.

Song Choice
I would like to see meaningful song choice on Bard, rather than just rotational constraints. To my mind, though, that requires both tight in-practice song balance and nuance-allowing flexibility.

The first is the simpler concern, but would also be rather math-laden, so I'll spare us all the details here. Let it suffice to say that each song should have a niche it's best at and that over the course of a typical raid fight (e.g., single-target and with some less-than-conveniently-timed jumps), situationally optimal play should allow for multiple ratios of song usage, while even true optimal play (e.g., under the perfect composition and party-wide perfect play) does not favor the best ratio by more than some 20% relative throughput except in fights that thoroughly play to one niche's strengths (e.g. funnel damage, sustained AoE, or multi-DoTing). I realize that's a mouthful, so let us substitute for all that a mere (though basically identical) requirement that the songs be "actually balanced".

Flexibility, on the other hand, seems best done by taking the songs off their current cooldowns and instead concerning them with MP. For instance, we might attach to them an initial on-use and continuous over-time cost, both of which increase with use (technically, with MP thus spent) and decrease (to as low as their default cost) over disuse (time not spent maintaining that Song). In that way, a Bard would still be forced to rotate their songs, but the rotation would be far more soft a constraint, allowing for more nuance or choice.

Song Passive Benefits
I'd like to see any and all trivial and passive song buffs removed (such as the currently attached Crit, DHit, or Damage buffs). They are incredibly dull and too insignificant to contribute to theme.

To remedy this, they ought to be both less trivial and less passive. For instance, they might be applied unevenly to nearby party members, based on relative proximity, checked before/with each tick. Such would make them less passive, as they'd at least be affected by positioning. The limited number of players being affected, moreover, would allow each (or, the nearer/nearest) to be affected more significantly, allowing its choiceful effect to feel less trivial. Finally, it would reduce the rDPS penalty of playing Bard in anything less than a Full and optimized party.

Moreover, we could introduce some further dynamism. For instance, maybe we could have the effect be more pronounced right at the start (though perhaps then an increased activation cost would be warranted), or we could have a further action somewhere between Battle Voice and the norm. Or perhaps each song could have a special action unique to it. Or, even, each song might be switchable to a more supportive mode, similar to the old Promotion ability for Machinist (whereby Rook Auto-turret would provide TP and Bishop would provide MP), though perhaps it ought to simply increase MP costs until toggled off, rather than removing the affected song's default functionality.

In-combat Movement Speed Song
Yes, but I'd prefer that not be a direct buff that uses Peloton itself, even if its CD were thus increased and duration greatly decreased. Moreover, it should have some due constraints, ideally as fits cohesively with the general ones. Ideally, I might like to see this as, say, the supportive mode of Wanderer's Minuet.

"Buff temporarily buffing the potency of active songs"
Such would simply be a return to the older design of Battle Voice, and I'd greatly appreciate that. Using the above example (whereby the song is split over allies according to their relative positioning), this would mean something like doubling the effect of the song and halving its fall-off over player count or relative distance.

These wouldn't make it more "bardy" but it'd make it less awful imo.

1. Remove Refulgent procs from Dots/Jaws.

2. Overflow capacity for Pitch Perfect and BL/RoD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

These wouldn't make it more "bardy" but it'd make it less awful imo.

1. Remove Refulgent procs from Dots/Jaws.

2. Overflow capacity for Pitch Perfect and BL/RoD.

---

A bit of (reasonable, imo) counter-point here:

1. Retaining procs from Dots/Jaws means, yes, that we should spent Refulgent before refreshing DoTs, but ultimately, we aren't going to be refreshing DoTs until the last possible moment anyways, so it changes nothing. At worst, it adds some redundant action-key shine while we're spreading DoTs before Ballad in an opening pull, but allows us more focus damage in turn (if the game ever cared about anything but maximizing overall damage). The extra procs therefore seem redundant, sure, but are they so bad as to warrant removal?
   
   I could go either way, personally, but if removed, what should take their place? Just an even higher proc chance on Burst Shot alone?
   
   
2. While that would help make WM's and Ballad's output more predictable and thus more tightly balanceable (though at present, they each leave Army's in the dust, even in practice rather than just on paper), it would also remove a considerable portion of gameplay.
   
   Though the matter has been greatly simplified since StB, Repertoire chance (i.e., DoT count) in a given moment still influences whether it's better to fire at 2 stacks or 3, and sync between the GCD and the 3-second DoT server tick still gives a further optimization strategy in weave order and around Empyreal Arrow. Moreover, there's just a certain rush of varied pace that comes with Ballad that I think many would come to miss if it were so watered down through that added leniency. I certainly would.
   
   In that matter, if anything, I'd just like to see Pitch Perfect gain 50% of its damage as a linear AoE (225 AoE potency, plus a further 225 potency to the main target), so it retains funnel capacity without being made increasingly insignificant with target count. That and, of course, some Army's Paeon buffs/reworks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

A bit of (reasonable, imo) counter-point here:

---

Increased potency on Refulgent Shot. Whether we should keep the separate dot buttons and Iron jaws is another matter, but the initial dot application and then Burst-Proc-Jaws string specifically call into question why it even exists.

You will never prioritize refulgent over your DoT application, that's just a matter of potency/GCD. Dot-Proc-Dot-Proc is just a chance at losing Refulgent procs we would never use, but the audio/visual cue still creates an, IMO, unpleasant dissonance in the job. The same with Burst-Proc-Jaws-Proc.

Alternatively, Refulgent could actually be its own barrage type skill, and every proc fills the 'barrage' quiver so to speak. At least then excess procs wouldn't feel awful.
====
You cannot guarantee your procs. There's basically little reason to assume you'll get two now that it's a flat 40%. Prior when you could crit chain yourself up to around 85% crit this was another matter entirely, because then you had a very common chance of straight up 'losing' potency. However, at 40%, statistically speaking you are unlikely to build 2 stacks - 1 in 6 in fact. To spend at 2 for the 1/6 chance to gain compared to simply wait for 3 and spend for the 5/6 guaranteed gain doesn't make sense.

This again comes down to a somewhat personal, unenjoyable dissonance. I know I may not get it, but there's always that chance that I -would- have gotten it, but who knows if I did.

This is primarily for Empyreal arrow but adding charges to it may achieve the same goal while not taking away the frenzied moments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Alternatively, Refulgent could actually be its own barrage type skill, and every proc fills the 'barrage' quiver so to speak. At least then excess procs wouldn't feel awful.

---

That was my preference, or at least something in that direction. If I could have gone back in time, I'd have done the same to Straight Shot -- that or let it bank a second charge and have Repertoire stem from all crits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

You cannot guarantee your procs. There's basically little reason to assume you'll get two now that it's a flat 40%. Prior when you could crit chain yourself up to around 85% crit this was another matter entirely, because then you had a very common chance of straight up 'losing' potency. However, at 40%, statistically speaking you are unlikely to build 2 stacks - 1 in 6 in fact.

---

Following the flat 40% chance I'd meant to point more at simple multi-DoTing, but yes, that's not exactly relevant to the standard trial or raid (as much as I might wish they weren't almost all a single boss in a perfectly rectangular/circular room).

That said, I did prefer when a great many jobs had gear influence on their core proc mechanics, including Bard; I just wish Crit had actually been tuned as to be balanced, rather than so almighty/oppressive a stat over time/gains. So I suppose that did play a part, even if only in a thematic sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

This is primarily for Empyreal arrow but adding charges to it may achieve the same goal while not taking away the frenzied moments.

---

Empyreal Arrow having two charges, on the other hand, I think would allow for more added nuance than it would potentially strip away any urgent emergent gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

1. add a talent that allows bards to use Pelotion in battle, and when pelotion is played by a bard it does not fall off when entering battle.

2. Add an aoe regen song for bard

3. Add an aoe mana regen song for bard (or rather give it back)

4. Reskin all/most of bards Attack spells as being shot/wielded by an instrument such as flute/harp/voilin/ ect (instead of only bow and arrows)

5. add a spell that temporarily buffs the potencies of active songs

I think with these simple buffs/changes bard would actually feel and look like a bard.

---

1 - that wouldnt a bad idea

2- regens are meh , and healing is covered already , a 10% shield would be better imo

3- nah thats forcing brd on progression (raises eat tons of mp)

4- BIG NO

5- Soul voice u mean ? (it was the lvl 50 skill)


bard needs to provide rdps somehow , if its going to keep the worst personal dps , it needs to bring tons to a party

Hilariously enough 5 is how Battle Voice USED to be. Early on Battle voice was meant to essentially supercharge the current song going on. IF we were stuck with the stupid passive aura's, I would not mind that being a rework to battle voice, as currently right now it feels very weak compared to other premier rDPS boosting abilities like Tech Step and Battle Litany. But I still would want to see a reworked form or replacement of some kind for Foe's Requiem after we lost it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D

1. add a talent that allows bards to use Pelotion in battle, and when pelotion is played by a bard it does not fall off when entering battle.

2. Add an aoe regen song for bard

3. Add an aoe mana regen song for bard (or rather give it back)

4. Reskin all/most of bards Attack spells as being shot/wielded by an instrument such as flute/harp/voilin/ ect (instead of only bow and arrows)

5. add a spell that temporarily buffs the potencies of active songs

---

1.) What would be the point of this? Peloton is a role skills so this is hardly a BRD improvement

2.) Ehh, leave healers to heal or maybe have it be more complex rather than Lesser Medica II. DNC isn’t just flat heal and neither should BRD

3.) Doubt Mana support will come back and it would be awkward with other casters.

4.) No, songs isn’t the main draw of damage. BRDs Bow is

5.) Sounds like Old Battle Voice, and the 3 songs are so identical it hardly makes send songs to make another one

BRD people need to reanalyze the songs available and their quirks before adding more, I agree it’s been lacking integral song support hence he emphasis on shots and dots but replacing them wouldn’t really improve the job, it would stagnate it