A question about Trusts...

Having recently come back to FFXIV, I've been leveling up my Trusts and jobs I don't want to group with other people on through the Trust system when an interesting question came to mind...

I am quite fond of Ryne in the Trust system... in 6.0, is she going to get replaced? If not... how is her presence going to be justified in these new areas? She is also, at present, the only melee DPS character in the trust system. If Ryne gets to stay in the Trusts... and I hope she does... does that open up the possibility for others from the first to be added eventually... like Gaia, for example? =p

I am assuming, even if so foolishly, that we will likely be getting Estinien added to the Trust system as a melee DPS char, but at the moment it is rather light on tanks and melees. =p

Answering this question would obviously include spoilers for Eden raids, that it appears you haven't yet completed.

I doubt they are going anywhere. Many of us worked hard I know I did with two characters leveling trusts to 80. We're going to have to level them again to 90 and they'll be adding more NPC's and not take them away. I hope they expand the dungeon choices as well but it seems they are pretty much aimed at MSQ dungeons at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I am assuming, even if so foolishly, that we will likely be getting Estinien added to the Trust system as a melee DPS char, but at the moment it is rather light on tanks and melees. =p

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It would not be a big spoiler to tell you this, as it was announced in February's big announcement showcase:

Yes, Estinien will be a melee DD trust in Endwalker.

There are two elements to trusts: the story-relevant party when you arrive at the dungeon in the course of the plot, and the "avatar" party members that you have to level up afterwards.

While you're levelling the avatars, Ryne's presence in Holminster is every bit as lore-breaking as it would be for her to participate in a Source dungeon. She simply wasn't present there and then.

Most likely the avatar system will remain in place beyond level 80 and you'll be able to continue levelling Ryne('s avatar) alongside all the other trust avatars - both the ones you've raised from 70 and at least one new one starting at 80 - even though she is unlikely to be present as an active character in the story dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Answering this question would obviously include spoilers for Eden raids, that it appears you haven't yet completed.

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I mean, I have. They don't exactly talk about trusts though. =p

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There are two elements to trusts: the story-relevant party when you arrive at the dungeon in the course of the plot, and the "avatar" party members that you have to level up afterwards.

While you're levelling the avatars, Ryne's presence in Holminster is every bit as lore-breaking as it would be for her to participate in a Source dungeon. She simply wasn't present there and then.

Most likely the avatar system will remain in place beyond level 80 and you'll be able to continue levelling Ryne('s avatar) alongside all the other trust avatars - both the ones you've raised from 70 and at least one new one starting at 80 - even though she is unlikely to be present as an active character in the story dungeons.

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True, I suppose that makes sense. For some reason, I had an idea in mind where they would have like a "Shadowbringer's Trust" and then a "Endwalkers" trust section for the new content and the available avatars would be different... otherwise if they were adding trusts for previous dungeons (which... for some reason I think they said they were contemplating on expanding on... sometime(tm)? ) they would probably need to add menus/tabs like they did with the Duty finder.

I just hope if we have 12 trust members to level to 90 instead of 6 we get more xp for the leveling process. 6 was bad enough and a lot of work more will make it difficult to do them all.

Honestly, kinda figured/assumed/expected it would be 100% new trust members going into 6.0. Otherwise, new players just coming through the story will, by the end of 6.0, have old characters still at 71 to level to 90, as well as new characters at 81 capable of running any/all Shadowbringers content without needing to level them. Plus, for everyone that's already leveled trusts to 80, there is the matter of the awkward state of needing to thus level them up to 81 before you could take any current characters into 6.0 content. And who knows how/if current trust members would adapt skills/rotations going forward. Would be a bit lame if the AI doesn't change at all.

Overall, it just seemed like the best/easiest way to maintain the system as is, as designed, would likely be having a whole new group. One per expansion. Allows them to avoid any troublesome quirks of cross-expansion Trust runs that will require additional foresight.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Honestly, kinda figured/assumed/expected it would be 100% new trust members going into 6.0. Otherwise, new players just coming through the story will, by the end of 6.0, have old characters still at 71 to level to 90, as well as new characters at 81 capable of running any/all Shadowbringers content without needing to level them. Plus, for everyone that's already leveled trusts to 80, there is the matter of the awkward state of needing to thus level them up to 81 before you could take any current characters into 6.0 content. And who knows how/if current trust members would adapt skills/rotations going forward. Would be a bit lame if the AI doesn't change at all.

Overall, it just seemed like the best/easiest way to maintain the system as is, as designed, would likely be having a whole new group. One per expansion. Allows them to avoid any troublesome quirks of cross-expansion Trust runs that will require additional foresight.

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No really those who never leveled the older ones just won't get to use them. The new trust members would be there for those who never did. Many of us put a lot of work into leveling them would be a shame to not be able to use them as well.

Edit: Although you do raise some issues I hadn't thought about because some of the same characters would have to be 80 for Endwalker to run those dungeons so not sure how they would handle that. The other issue is whether or not the new 80 level characters would be able to run the older Shadowbringers dungeons which did require you to level trusts outside of the msq access in order to do that.

I think how it will work is that for levels 80-90 we'll get a new party, separate from the 70-80 trusts... I think for example ryne won't be able to join because for this level bracket she's been replaced by estinien in the party. If it doesn't work like this, leveling all characters is going to take super long and be quite a mess... imagine a new player that just got to endwalker's endgame. They'd have to level y'shtola all the way from level 71 if they want to do a lv 90 dungeon with trusts... I hope that's not how it works and the new party starts at level 80.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

imagine a new player that just got to endwalker's endgame. They'd have to level y'shtola all the way from level 71 if they want to do a lv 90 dungeon with trusts...

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Only if they want to do it repeatedly. Trusts are always available for MSQ clearance regardless of the avatar's level.

If they cared about not making us slog through levelling trusts the slow way, they'd let us access scenario mode any time we wanted to even if we hadn't finished levelling up. Having that locked behind getting everyone to 80 is disappointing.

She probably wont be a choosable trust until after you have run the dungeon the first time.

To be honest i'm pretty sure ryne will come to the source they put to much effort into her to abandon her on the first

I'm more concerned about whether all my level 71 trust people will auto-level to 80 or not.
Or - even better - if they just remove the asinine XP requirement altogether.
I mean, trusts *ALREADY* take double the time of a real dungeon run; why are they punishing us further?

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'm more concerned about whether all my level 71 trust people will auto-level to 80 or not.
Or - even better - if they just remove the asinine XP requirement altogether.
I mean, trusts *ALREADY* take double the time of a real dungeon run; why are they punishing us further?

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You'll be able to clear MSQ dungeons at least once with them for progression sake.

My theory is going in 6.0 that you'll have to pair thancred with Urianger instead of alphinaud for him to do the cartridge combo since MSQ relevant reasons.

There were 2 cardinal rules with trusts: Always pair thancred with rhyne and NEVER use Alphinaud and Alisae in the same party if you can. Alphi will always prioritize Alisae over anything and everything. Rhyne also enables Thancred to do the cartridge combo.

I personally felt that trusts didn't take much longer to clear if you know some of the easter eggs like the above. Y'shtola is the only trust that AoEs fairly consistently. Not to mention her foul is just flat-out OP for bursting something down.

I'm also curious if we're going to be able to level Ryne from 80 to 90 or if she'll just cap at 80 and we get Estinien starting at level 80 after msq is finished in EW.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

You'll be able to clear MSQ dungeons at least once with them for progression sake.

My theory is going in 6.0 that you'll have to pair thancred with Urianger instead of alphinaud for him to do the cartridge combo since MSQ relevant reasons.

There were 2 cardinal rules with trusts: Always pair thancred with rhyne and NEVER use Alphinaud and Alisae in the same party if you can. Alphi will always prioritize Alisae over anything and everything. Rhyne also enables Thancred to do the cartridge combo.

I personally felt that trusts didn't take much longer to clear if you know some of the easter eggs like the above. Y'shtola is the only trust that AoEs fairly consistently. Not to mention her foul is just flat-out OP for bursting something down.

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As someone who leveled every trust character to 80, I mixed and matched them plenty without issue. While the cartridge thing is a nice touch ("Ryne, the cartridges!" *BOOM*), it's hardly game breaking if you don't bring her. From a story stand point it doesn't really matter either, as all the main Scions are capable of easily manipulating aether and can enchant Thancreds' ammo for him. I mean... Y'shtola gave him ammo she just enchanted in the last (or second to last? don't recall) Memories in Crystal cutscene, so there's no reason it has to be Urianger.

I also had no issue leveling the twins together, and honestly, a lot of their dialog together made me smile; their exchange after the plant boss in The Grand Cosmos is adorable.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

From a story stand point it doesn't really matter either, as all the main Scions are capable of easily manipulating aether and can enchant Thancreds' ammo for him. I mean... Y'shtola gave him ammo she just enchanted in the last (or second to last? don't recall) Memories in Crystal cutscene, so there's no reason it has to be Urianger.

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Urianger went with thancred to garlemald specifically because thancred is unable to make his own cartridges. Rhyne always did it because Thancred was always with rhyne. So yes, it is true anyone CAN do it, I think the game may give that little easter egg to urianger in 6.x because of the MSQ dialogue.

It's gonna be so silly if Ryne is a trust in EW dungeons without actually being present on the source at all.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Urianger went with thancred to garlemald specifically because thancred is unable to make his own cartridges. Rhyne always did it because Thancred was always with rhyne. So yes, it is true anyone CAN do it, I think the game may give that little easter egg to urianger in 6.x because of the MSQ dialogue.

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I'm aware. Also, it was more of a "I'm going regardless and you can't stop me, nyah nyah" thing on Uriangers' part, as Thancred was intending to go alone, but Urianger insisted. I mean, he was right in that it made more sense to accompany him; I just thought it was funny how putout Thancred was.

Mostly, I just found your "cardinal rule" comment a bit odd. :P