Can we appreciate that Yoshi P learned?

He actually learned from the huge backlash on male viera from back then and told us right away that female hrotgar is on the way, even if itll take time. The fact they told it us straight away and didnt avoid the questions makes me almost as happy as the reveal itself^^

?????
Learn from what? But they haven't even said if they are going to fix the whole problem of the current races when we have been with them for 2 years. Before putting new races fix the current ones but again, total lack of information on a quite controversial topic.

Umm, what?
Why new thread? Also you make it sound like he did a big mistake. They never promised anything to begin with. People speculate to much into things and thats why he wanted to avoid further negative feedback. Thats all there is to.

Backlash from whom?
All the whiny players that threatened to cancel subscription if there was no male bunnies, but still ended playing shb, and will still most likely stay on their catgirl even after 6.0?

Learn what? There is no backlash! majority of players, esp old school final fantasy players know that Viera is predominately female. Just be happy that the Devs see the potential of male Viera and stop adding controversy on anything.

and watch them be just as broken :P another rushed race option that will never be fixed enjoy your 8 hairstyles and no hats i guess

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

He actually learned from the huge backlash on male viera from back then and told us right away that female hrotgar is on the way, even if itll take time. The fact they told it us straight away and didnt avoid the questions makes me almost as happy as the reveal itself^^

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Yeah I guess if you really want something, death threats do in fact work. Otherwise I think they would have waited to drop male viera with female hrothgar.

I would assume OP is talking about how at the 2nd Shadowbringers Fanfest, he was flat out asked "Will there be Male Viera" after female viera was revealed, and due to whatever reason he didn't provide a straight answer (even "not yet" is a straight answer). His response was "We have one more Fanfest". The EN Community basically took this as "We'll show you in Japan".

Yes exactly, the typical (and especially japanese) thing where they dont wanna say "no" right away... his answers were extremely vague back then with "pls wait till next fan fest" etc instead of a simple "no". Sure ppl overreacted and all, but a straight answer would have reduced the backlash a lot.

I cant help im not a fan of non-answers and hitting with hard facts later... just be honest and we're good. If you say "we will but it might take till 6/7.0" ok, so be it. And fyi I dont care about viera all that much as im only using one as a retainer and thats it.

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Learn what? There is no backlash! majority of players, esp old school final fantasy players know that Viera is predominately female. Just be happy that the Devs see the potential of male Viera and stop adding controversy on anything.

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For bunnys sure, but ronso always had both genders in fact blitzball had 3 ronso fem players that would own u if u messed up

They knew back then that the new races would take too many resources. Yet, they still caved in and made Male Viera and essentially promised Female Hrothgar.

They didn't learn anything. Bad decision after bad decision.

Just like Bozja cost us an ultimate, these limited races cost us potential customization for the existing races.

But hey, a few Viera players are now happy. Please look forward to the future reskins.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Backlash from whom?
All the whiny players that threatened to cancel subscription if there was no male bunnies, but still ended playing shb, and will still most likely stay on their catgirl even after 6.0?

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Bet its gonna be like female viera, they will stick with it for 1 year, once they get no new hairstyles or hats etc they will go back to catgirls xD
Actually putting their resources on the races and not the character creator does mean no new hair or hats.

Back then I had suggested they might already have a side plan, up to some modification based on feedback, to make the other genders. Personally due to a variety of benefits, I think this is long plan. I know some people would say why not Viera pure first then hroth, but I think this makes the better long plan as it helps add the ability to hype up their completion more than normal (baby ARR), incorporate some feedback as well as look like they're fixing player issues while tie hroth into the plan (hroth by nature will fill a void of race type, which is good, but are a beast race so they won't be as popular as beauty races - Viera acting as the sort of lubricant to get hroth in the door ).

Until both races can wear hats and use all hairstyles, nothing has been learned.

The arrogance even after all this is astounding....

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Until both races can wear hats and use all hairstyles, nothing has been learned.

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Not rlly most if nor all hats that are "hats" are ugly as hell, a few do work about the only decent looking ones tbh, almost all hair styles are horrible there maybe 4 decent ones outside base .. So it doesnt need them.. Id rather them just expand its head options and maybe in thr name of theme just give them their own customize hair option for each job that has the helmet built into the hair

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Not rlly most if nor all hats that are "hats" are ugly as hell, a few do work about the only decent looking ones tbh, almost all hair styles are horrible there maybe 4 decent ones outside base .. So it doesnt need them.. Id rather them just expand its head options and maybe in thr name of theme just give them their own customize hair option for each job that has the helmet built into the hair

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You might think that, but a lot of players disagree with you. A lot of us want to play as Viera and Hrothgar, but hairstyles and hats prevents us from changing.

Best is if this becomes a choice, if you don't like it, don't use it and if you like it, use it.

Win/win

I like that they've added male viera. I didn't strongly petition for them, as I had some lore queries regarding them as I don't remember them being a huge part of FF12. I think it's good that they've been added now though. They look a lot better than I assumed they would. I hope female ronso look better than their FFX counterparts when they're finally added. TBH, I think they were always going to do this. It would be weird to have two races in the game that only had one sex option.

I do think the title of this thread is a bit patronizing also.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

You might think that, but a lot of players disagree with you. A lot of us want to play as Viera and Hrothgar, but hairstyles and hats prevents us from changing.

Best is if this becomes a choice, if you don't like it, don't use it and if you like it, use it.

Win/win

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If hairstyle, hats are preventing you from changing with the extra face and head stuff. You dont really want to play them lol

Should of been there on launch of ShB. I think praising SE for completing incomplete work is kind of silly.

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

If hairstyle, hats are preventing you from changing with the extra face and head stuff. You dont really want to play them lol

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Hairstyle and hats (skintone for some) are part of the look that one has for the character and can influence if you want to play as someone.

What you are saying is similar to what people were saying to those with male characters that wanted to have access to female outfits.

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

If hairstyle, hats are preventing you from changing with the extra face and head stuff. You dont really want to play them lol

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There is no extra face and head stuff, just arbitrary restrictions and less of everything.

So yeah, a lot of people that would otherwise play and enjoy the races opt to play something else that can freely access the things they have earned or paid gil/real money for.

I actually thought this thread was going to be admitting indirectly that housing/plot releases are hot garbage.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

I actually thought this thread was going to be admitting indirectly that housing/plot releases are hot garbage.

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what nah letting one person buy 90 % of the wards was clearly by design and not short sightness

Yes, I'm so happy that the dev resources where taken in order to rush out Male viera FIRST then Female Hrothgar LATER, rather then expanding current Viera/Hrothgar visible head gear, OR EVEN BETTER expanding ALL CURRENT character creation opinions like beards, or tattoos, or scar's or more anything!

Oh yes, so very happy the dev team couldn't do what was been more needed for the past 6-8 years. GCBTW.

Yoshida's mistake was to lie that the reason for half races was lore. Anyone could see through it especially after male miqo'te case. There were so many angry people. It could've been avoided if he was truthful from the start.

male miqo'te was a mistake they should have copy pasted ff 11 and have them be nearly extinct :P

It's good that it's coming for the people that want it.


But, they never promised male bunnies to begin with so I'm not sure why people were disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

He actually learned from the huge backlash on male viera from back then and told us right away that female hrotgar is on the way, even if itll take time. The fact they told it us straight away and didnt avoid the questions makes me almost as happy as the reveal itself^^

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Learned what exacly?

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

and watch them be just as broken :P another rushed race option that will never be fixed enjoy your 8 hairstyles and no hats i guess

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This.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Should of been there on launch of ShB. I think praising SE for completing incomplete work is kind of silly.

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Shouldn't been added to begin with.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

male miqo'te was a mistake they should have copy pasted ff 11 and have them be nearly extinct :P

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They more or less only existed in the lore and that one quest in WOTG
But yes i agree. Male Miqo is kinda fugly imo.

*laugh* only thing that got learned is that we learned we're going to have thousands of posts here of people begging to have every little thing fixed, and things here will become so much worse.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Backlash from whom?
All the whiny players that threatened to cancel subscription if there was no male bunnies

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Sure there were overreactions from some players, but so far this thread seems to be mostly people who were opposed to Male Viera and it's pure whiny, bitter, ungrateful and toxic grumbling. I've never seen anything like it, barely a single positive reaction. Game communities have a bad habit of silencing themselves more than any developer, when a lot of players feel strongly about something the other half will turn on them and try to shut them up.

I have absolutely zero interest in Viera or Hrothgar, but there certainly was demand for it and I'm happy for the fans that all their feedback paid off and have respect for the devs for listening to that feedback. No it won't cost us tons of content, the developers who work on designing races are not the same people making dungeons, raids or MSQ. I only see this as a positive and a sign of a decent development team.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Backlash from whom?
All the whiny players that threatened to cancel subscription if there was no male bunnies, but still ended playing shb, and will still most likely stay on their catgirl even after 6.0?

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QFT. This guy gets it.

Isn't it nice how the whiners get what they want when reasonable people ask politely and constructively and wait for years for nothing? What kind of precedent will this set?

On further thought....

This now makes 14 HEADS for VII and Hrothgar.

This DOUBLES the work it will take for them to put any hat on any of them.

We are going to go from "hats are stupidly rare for them" to "THERE ARE NO HATS"

This just makes life worse for every Vii and Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Sure there were overreactions from some players, but so far this thread seems to be mostly people who were opposed to Male Viera and it's pure whiny, bitter, ungrateful and toxic grumbling. I've never seen anything like it, barely a single positive reaction. Game communities have a bad habit of silencing themselves more than any developer, when a lot of players feel strongly about something the other half will turn on them and try to shut them up.

I have absolutely zero interest in Viera or Hrothgar, but there certainly was demand for it and I'm happy for the fans that all their feedback paid off and have respect for the devs for listening to that feedback. No it won't cost us tons of content, the developers who work on designing races are not the same people making dungeons, raids or MSQ. I only see this as a positive and a sign of a decent development team.

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Imagine if more people were educated in development, even the basics. /sweat

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Isn't it nice how the whiners get what they want when reasonable people ask politely and constructively and wait for years for nothing? What kind of precedent will this set?

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So because this is a subset of the overall population that was making the request and a smaller part of that subset went about the request in a vitriolic manner the whole group are whiners? Don't get me wrong, not defending the OP and their take away to the addition of male Viera, but basing the action of a few on an entire group is a bit disingenuous. It'd be about the same as holding Ultimate raiders accountable to MPK's behavior on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I have absolutely zero interest in Viera or Hrothgar, but there certainly was demand for it and I'm happy for the fans that all their feedback paid off and have respect for the devs for listening to that feedback. No it won't cost us tons of content, the developers who work on designing races are not the same people making dungeons, raids or MSQ. I only see this as a positive and a sign of a decent development team.

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To be fair, while I'm entirely indifferent to male Viera and female Hrothgar, this does likely mean the existing races won't see any updates or customization until 8.0 at the very least. Which is quite disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Sure there were overreactions from some players, but so far this thread seems to be mostly people who were opposed to Male Viera and it's pure whiny, bitter, ungrateful and toxic grumbling. I've never seen anything like it, barely a single positive reaction. Game communities have a bad habit of silencing themselves more than any developer, when a lot of players feel strongly about something the other half will turn on them and try to shut them up.

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Its funny that you said that. Me and one of my friends was talking about this. I told them when the announce viera and it was a gender lock race alot of people where up in arms about it. Heck i still remember one person even calling them homophobic for not adding them in. Or unsubbing.

Glad they added them for those who wanted them though, it just takes time and it seems a lot of people do not have patience.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

. No it won't cost us tons of content, the developers who work on designing races are not the same people making dungeons, raids or MSQ.

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No, not the MSQ or dungeons indeed. However it can potentially reduce an already low armor divercity from said dungeons. But we are already used to recycled content swapped for different classes, aren't we?

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

So because this is a subset of the overall population that was making the request and a smaller part of that subset went about the request in a vitriolic manner the whole group are whiners? Don't get me wrong, not defending the OP and their take away to the addition of male Viera, but basing the action of a few on an entire group is a bit disingenuous. It'd be about the same as holding Ultimate raiders accountable to MPK's behavior on these forums.

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Oh please, on which world did you(general you) not whine? On streams spamming "male viera when", the 1400+ page topic spamming with dumb takes on why they need to be in game and on top of all that the types that create these kinds of threads?