Caveat, I am no horse enby, so folks, come in and poke me if I'm being grossly inaccurate.
1: With two legs, a chocobo can't buck like a horse can. To unseat a rider it's going to have to try other things.
2: A rider with long enough legs will probably hook them over the fold of the wing joint and over the thigh muscles, to help retain a seated position. Concept art of chocobo saddles implies so.
3: The back feathers of a chocobo may be softer and downier, and therefore able to take the pressure of a saddle and pad without having their quill structure crushed. Nevertheless sores might be more problematic on a chocobo with a badly distributed load than on a horse because feathers are more easily ripped out than smooth horse hair.
4: Because chocobos only have two legs, laming one is a Very Big Problem. I don't imagine they live too long without swift healing magic and possible splinting and other care.
5: While the game doesn't render the wearer's feet in stirrups I imagine they're a necessity. Especially in flight. I imagine flight saddles have an additional strap to keep the rider in if anything happens, like turbulent winds, etc, like military saddles do.
6: I've noticed that riders sit further forward on a chocobo than they might on a horse, but then chocobos don't have front legs, just wings. The weight of the rider is placed over where the shoulders on a horse would be, which is incidentally how bareback equestrians sit.
7: HOW DO YOU GUIDE THE DANG BIRD. Horses are guided with the pressure of the bit in the mouth. Chocobo tack does not have a bit. One imagines that most riding chocobos are actually trained to obey dressage-like cues and can be guided almost exclusively with the knees.
8: Chocobos seem to be eaters of herbage as opposed to grazers of grass, like ungulates. Without teeth, they probably seek out pebbles and stones to eat as gastroliths to help grind food in the gizzard.
Chocobos may not need as much watering as horses due to the fact that they eat high-moisture, juicy vegetables and fruits along with their customary diet of herbage.
9: Sustaining chocobos on voyage may therefore be a bit easier than sustaining horses on voyage, as long as your turnips and beets and mangel-wurzels don't spoil.
10: Bird manure is generally too "hot" to be used on crops from scratch. But well-mixed with plant matter (scraps from the chocobos' own feed bowls, stall straw) it will compost down into a rich soil amendment.
Chocobo grooms probably make a good side profit in aged compost.
11: Horses get horse shoes. Racing chocobos get spur-like foot harnesses to improve grip on race tracks.
But the bottom of a chocobo's large foot is a large surface area to protect and treat in the case of difficult terrain and you can't give chocobos horse shoes. To that end, I imagine riders in rougher terrain, like the salt loch in Gyr Abania, actually put oiled leather booties on their chocobos' feet to prevent say, hypersaline grit from building up in the wrinkles and crevices of their toes, and causing sores.
12: Salts and other essential minerals are mixed into horse feed, and salt blocks are put out for pastured livestock, to let them meet their mineral needs. I actually imagine chocobokeeps putting crushed cuttlebone in chocobo feed, to get them supplemented with extra calcium.
These are all thoughts I've had playing my gunbreaker through HW, SB, and ShB. Cross-posted to my personal Twitter.
Lore-ish thoughts about chocobo riding.
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05-07-2021, 01:56 AMSeveraux_VilauclaireLore-ish thoughts about chocobo riding.
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05-07-2021, 02:24 AMBrightamethyst
Breeding must be wild considering the size differences you need for the various races. Do you suppose certain ranches focus on different breeds? Like House So-And-So is famous for their Ishgardian War Steeds while the Such-And-Such Ranch specializes in lalafell racing birds?
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05-07-2021, 02:32 AMSeveraux_VilauclaireFrom the lore, they use medieval horse categorizations via size and gait to categorize various kinds of chocobos. For example, lalafell riders tend to prefer smol jennets from the Belah'diahn stables, and Roegadyn riders are often assigned destriers, which was the category used for warhorses 14 hands and up capable of carrying a knight in full plate. So yes, different ranches focus on different lines of chocobo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightamethyst
I imagine they also breed for different abilities and temperaments. Horses are still divided into hotblood and coldblood categories —*hotblood horses are energetic, high-strung racers, and coldbloods are heavier draft animals. It's not a binary distribution either, it's more of a spectrum. The famous Irish Sport horses are a cross of Irish Draught coldbloods with Thoroughbreds, which are hotbloods, to make a warm-blooded eventing/sport horse that excels in jumping.
My character Sev is Gridanian but his mother is an Ishgardian emigrant, so she taught him everything she knew about chocobo-breeding, since that was her family trade. -
05-07-2021, 05:12 AMEnkidoh
Much of the lore for chocobos in FFXIV has actually had it's origins in past FF games (dating back to it's very first appearence in FFII) and has been refined throughout the series ever since - the names for different breeds for different races for instance was originally from FFXI.
Considering that the chocobo was very loosely based on the 'horseclaws' from the classic Studio Ghibli anime Nauusica, which in turn was based on the extinct prehistoric bird diatrayma (with elements of modern chickens and ostriches/emus thrown in for good measure), it's perhaps best not to overthink the details of how chocobos can be ridden as mounts and just accept that they are - this is fantasy after all and a willing suspension of disbelief is needed. ;) -
05-07-2021, 06:05 AMSeveraux_VilauclaireQuote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Oh, of course — but I like to imagine how it's done. I'm an inveterate world-builder in my freelance writing work and it just sort of happens while I'm riding my chocobo from point A to point B for game purposes. -
05-07-2021, 06:09 AMGenBroadaxe
Really dig the thought put into this! It would be cool if there were different "stables" of chocobo in game given the vast size differences between races, even if only cosmetic. Big old draft chocobos, miniature chocobos, fast and light racing ones, a lot of neat lore stuff one could come up with. I think the closest thing we get to actual breed lore is the black flying chocobo (although I think the story bit of that was chopped once flying in the ARR areas became a thing) and the fact that I think (could be misremembering) House Fortemps provided breeding stock for the stables in Gridania.
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05-07-2021, 06:55 AMEnkidohOh you're right, and I too love world-building with my various story and comic ideas I always have floating around in my head, so I definetely share your enthusiasm for the 'shower-thoughts' about this (I'm really sorry if I came across as too dismissive!). :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
It is just that I think a lot of the missing aspects of the chocobo's lore have never been touched on because there has been no narrative or gameplay requirement to do so. And as fantasy by it's very definition "makes the impossible probable", dealing with such niceties as the chocobo species' deeper anatomy probably is something you won't see SE themselves touch on too much unless the main story or gameplay requires it.
However, having said that, it is possible to still fill in some of the blanks at least by looking outside FFXIV itself and through the chocobo's history in previous FF games (and titles since):
Considering rental chocobos do 'dismount' you after the ten minute time limit expires, I think it's much easier than it appears. Of course actual mount chocobos do not do this, so it could probably just be not so much the chocobo throwing you off it when time is up, and more just the game showing you "doing the right thing" and dismounting once the time is up - but your malmage may vary on that one. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
Funny you should mention that because until recently laming was actually a debuff you could be affected by while riding any mount if you happened to be attacked by an enemy that was aggressive (specifically in version 1.0 - ARR instead replaced it with 'Heavy', presumedly because of the addition of different non-chocobo mounts compared to 1.0, but it had the same affect, in that the mount's speed was greatly reduced to that of a crawl. It was not permenant though and wore off after a while, suggesting chocobos have some degree of tolerance to such injuries. Considering throughout the series chocobos are capable of even wielding magic (*cough* red chocobos *cough cough*), and that FFXIV is no exception, including healing magic, that means it is possible that they could heal such injuries themselves magically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
I do imagine bone breakage would be an unfortunate tendency for chocobos given they are birds who possess hollow bones after all, but it's something that to my knowledge at least hasn't yet been depicted in the game (although it's stated that the illegal poachers in the Chocobo Forest in Dravania use beartraps to capture the birds, something the legitimate hunters in Tailfeather find abhorrent due to the injuries it causes chocobos, so laming probably is a result of that).
Another point that needs to be mentioned though is they do seem to be particularly prone to disease - just prior to the Calamity chocobo use in Eorzea was curtailed greatly due to a disease called Chocobo Blight that reached pandemic levels throughout Eorzea, resulting in Ishgard basically quarantining it's birds and refusing to release any to the citystates other than the ones they already posessed. Eventually the quarantine worked and the Blight diminished enough that Ishgard once again released chocobos to the other citystates, and thus to adventurers (this was the lore reason why in 1.0 you originally couldn't ride a chocobo, and why even to this day an adventurer cannot just ride on legally, they have to show justification (read: ability) before they're authorized to ride them.
Basically, you don't. Chocobos are considered actually 'semi-intelligent', and so are considered strong-willed. This is why in the Chocobo Races (based directly on Chocobo Racing in FFVII) you can't actually directly control the chocobo but merely guide it and hope it follows your commands, the more likely it is to do this determined by stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
Of course as a mount this is quietly ignored for the sake of gameplay, but given we're also riding the likes of Midgardsormr who is fully sentinent and free-willed, I think it's more of a case of 'the chocobo has such a strong bond with you they know to instinctively go where you want them to.' Or, putting it another way, you could simply say it's another aspect of the Echo. ;)
They do, throughout the series their preferred fodder are vegetables, specifically leafy 'greens', especially their signature food, gysahl greens (which vary in depiction from a raddish like plant in FFVII to more like the cabbages seen here in FFXIV - the name itself was a town in FFIII). Having said that, the infamous Fat Chocobo in his various incarnations is notorious for pretty much eating anything and everything (some games he even functions as an item inventory - I'll leave it up to your imagination as to where and how exactly he stores and recovers those items!). The use of stones to grind up their food in their stomachs is highly likely, but has never been depicted or stated in any FF game from my understanding at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
Considering in FFXIV at least chocobos were natively only found in Eorzea and not across the world, and given Aldernard is not exactly a very large continent (Ilsabard is far larger), I think that wouldn't have been too much of a problem - especially post Calamity manned aetheryte camps and hamlets are fairly common along most major roads that can provide fodder and water for chocobos and (in the case of chocobo carriage services), fresh birds for long distance travels. But certainly taking a few bags of greens and a barrel of water would probably be enough for most chocobo caravans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
Actually, an early quest in Gridania has you gathering up chocobo dung at the stables at Treespeak in the North Shroud that the chocobokeeps use as fertilizer for the gysahl greens crops, but from what I remember they didn't mix it with other scraps or extract say phosphorous from it, but simply used it on the crops as is. Of course, this may just be simplification for the sake of gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
Another very disturbing use for chocobo dung is that it is apparently the 'secret ingredient' imps use to make 'Old Pumpkin Cookies' in the Halloween events which they gave to unsuspecting adventurers, so take from that what you will. ;) -
05-07-2021, 09:06 AMIscahMagicked rental saddles. Stay on for more than your allotted time and they'll encourage you to dismount by becoming unbearably hot or electrified or something. Possibly both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
(Only affects you and not the bird, of course.) -
05-07-2021, 09:51 AMMoofiaBossVal
Given that Griffons exist in this world, I'm surprised that Griffons aren't the predominant mount in Eorzea. They're far, far strong than Chocobos so they can carry heavier burdens and are less fragile, and they have four legs so getting a leg broken isn't a total death sentence. And Griffons can fly. Maybe Chocobos can be bred faster and in larger numbers so they are cheaper, but you'd think that the Griffon breeding industry would be way bigger.
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05-07-2021, 11:31 AMBrightamethyst
They're probably harder enough to tame that it's not worth it. Same reason people don't ride lions into battle IRL. It's possible to train and a lion as a mount, but not worth the effort given how easy horses are by comparison. Not like a warhorse is a slouch in a fight. Ala Mhigo does have gryphon mounted soldiers, but they're specialty troops rather than the rank and file.
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05-07-2021, 01:33 PMVyrerusQuote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Yeah... horseclaws... >_>;
An another note, it's entirely possible to ride modern Ostriches in real life, if you're about 200 pounds or less. Also seems more like both Horseclaws and Chocobos, at least how they look now, is based off the Gastornis. -
05-07-2021, 02:09 PMIscahBut why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
I guess it's possible they started as inspired by horseclaws, turned into that and someone else said "yeah, no, let's just go with 'horseclaws but yellow'."
Also from a quick Wikipedia search, Diatryma redirects to Gastornis anyway. It used to be a separate genus but has now been merged. -
05-07-2021, 02:19 PMEnkidohHaha, yeah, but then, that's Amano's art for you. ;) (Interesting tidbit, is that 'pink featherless flamingo' design ended up being used in the FFV sequel anime Legend of the Crystals, so take from that what you will. ;)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
And yes, is is definetely possible to ride ostriches and emus, they're strong enough to bear a light rider... the main issue is their lack of easy domestication which is usually the requirement for a mount animal.
As for the gastornis and the chocobo's design, may I now also present to you Bullockornis, aka the 'demon duck of doom' which is an example of extinct Australian megafauna, of which modern artists' imrpessions seem to scarily depict something very similar to the chocobo... but that's just coincidence (and proof that Australia really is a FF world in reality... but I digress ;)). -
05-07-2021, 02:52 PMVyrerusAll we gotta do is try to breed them, and then they'll fall in love with the human rancher instead... err, that might not make them easier to ride, never mind!Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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05-08-2021, 09:15 AMSeveraux_VilauclaireIt could be a supply and logistics issue: Griffons are carnivores. That means you can't cut-and-carry food for them like you can with chocobos, and maintaining a supply line to feed a bunch of them is going to be tricky without easily portable refrigeration. Also, while chocobos can be temperamental and kick you to death, griffons can kick you to death, claw you to death, and eat you ... plus in the hardship of a long siege you can put down the pack chocobos and put them in the cookpot to feed the soldiers. Griffons may not be as palatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal
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05-08-2021, 09:22 AMICountFrom0I think this explains why even domesticated chocobos tend to have the ability to cure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
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05-08-2021, 10:23 AMFenralThe Final Fantasy wikia suggests they were originally modeled after this monstrosity. A snack food mascot whose catchphrase was "Kuue!" ("Eat it!")Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
Despite his "character design" credit, Amano was mainly a concept artist for the early games. The only actual art of his that made it into the games was the monster graphics. The actual character designs were more-or-less done by Kazuko Shibuya when she dotted out the sprites. (I'm sure at the time she had no idea of the magnitude of the service she was doing for our feathered friends. I think we're all grateful.) -
05-08-2021, 11:09 AMRanniethat picture almost (and I say almost) reminds me of the poster used for the cartoon move WizardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizards_(film) -
02-09-2022, 04:18 AMGenisayActually, it's not that hard and doesn't even need to require some kind of special connection or something like the Echo so long as the creature you are working with is willing. Most Chocobo barding (at least in FFXIV) comes with reigns. Even without a bit, the fabric on either side of the head can still be used to indicate direction by laying it across either side of the neck, or the cheek of the animal. Bits are generally used for greater control with animals that may be stubborn and are less intuitive method. Smarter horses that are cooperative can actually be ridden without a bit if they are trained for it.Quote:
7: HOW DO YOU GUIDE THE DANG BIRD. Horses are guided with the pressure of the bit in the mouth. Chocobo tack does not have a bit. One imagines that most riding chocobos are actually trained to obey dressage-like cues and can be guided almost exclusively with the knees.
Also to this: Basically, you don't. Chocobos are considered actually 'semi-intelligent', and so are considered strong-willed. This is why in the Chocobo Races (based directly on Chocobo Racing in FFVII) you can't actually directly control the chocobo but merely guide it and hope it follows your commands, the more likely it is to do this determined by stats.
Of course, as a mount this is quietly ignored for the sake of gameplay, but given we're also riding the likes of Midgardsormr who is fully sentinent and free-willed, I think it's more of a case of 'the chocobo has such a strong bond with you they know to instinctively go where you want them to.' Or, putting it another way, you could simply say it's another aspect of the Echo.
And, much like in bareback horse riding, the rider can give signals to the mount using light to strong pressures from their thighs, knees, lower legs, feet and even the lean of their body on the animal's back. A horse that is well bonded to a person learns to 'read' the will of their rider from these signals and will go where their rider suggests.
Considering how close of a bond we likely form with our chocobo, especially the ones we train to be our battle companions in FFXIV, I doubt our chocobo would have any trouble reading our posture and body language on it's back. Not to mention they can likely be trained to follow not only vocal commands, but clicks, whistles and other sounds, as well as hand signs.
I was always under the impression that the chocobos used in racing were not the same ones being trained to be battle mounts. Yes, a chocobo might be surely due to it's intelligence and strong will, but that is why you make a mutual bond with the animal rather than 'break' it.
Even many stubborn horses can be worked with if the person doing the training understands how to get them to respond. Breaking a horse was a quick, but harsh and rough way to get the animal to submit. Most horses treated well and raised by people can be willing companions as much as a dog can be. -
02-09-2022, 07:00 AMMikkoAkure
I ignore a lot of chocobo-riding weirdness since they're just fantasy games, but there have been some things that would not work out realistically or be difficult to overcome.
People can ride ostriches in real life, but I can't imagine they're ridden for very long outside of races/entertainment and even though chocobos are bigger I can't imagine they would be very comfortable carrying a person, especially since they only have 2 legs to distribute the weight and as birds, they have hollow bones.
Should the rider disturb the chocobo, they have long necks and very big beaks that I can imagine would do serious harm to the rider.
Riding a chocobo would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Since they only have 2 legs, the ride would be very bouncy and I can't imagine many Ishgardian/Gridanian men are very fertile. -
02-10-2022, 07:01 PMAlleluiaThere’s a quest in Horizon that basically confirms how bad laming a chocobo would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
And there’s a quest in or around Treespeak in N Shroud that has us gathering sacks of manure from the stables there, so I’d say this is likely accurate too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Severaux_Vilauclaire
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02-10-2022, 07:18 PMEaraGraceThere’s also the cultural motivations as well. I can imagine the status having a gryphon mount would be, with its predominance in Ala Mhigan society. Would explain why we really don’t see gryphon mounts elsewhere. No one else cares enough!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightamethyst
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02-11-2022, 12:54 AMSannaRI would hope that riding a Chocobo would be less uncomfortable and less bouncy as riding the dodos. Since those are practically just yoga balls with feathers. Heck when riding the Hemisa with Vashanen I thought my poor Viera was going to bounce off or need to grip on to the poor thing too tightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure