RP Party finders being reported AGAIN without so much as a reason.

Simply nothing left here to discuss

Dalliance-a casual romantic or sexual relationship

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

See that may work in one case but in the other case, The party finder reported did not have 18+ in the party finder what so ever. Instead, They simply had a standard role play venue party finder without adult connotations and still were placed in gm jail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belgamin

See that may work in one case but in the other case, The party finder reported did not have 18+ in the party finder what so ever. Instead, They simply had a standard role play venue party finder without adutl connotations and still were placed in gm jail.

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Conveniently, there's no picture of the PF for the 2nd encounter. I'm guessing the devil is in the details.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Dalliance-a casual romantic or sexual relationship

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

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There is literally a song in the Orchestrion with the word 'Dalliances' in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuumin

There is literally a song in the Orchestrion with the word 'Dalliances' in it.

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And? That's a song name. Not an active recruitment in the PF. Well, probably not active now, but the point stands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Dalliance-a casual romantic or sexual relationship

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

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Ignoring the definition, the GM should just flat out say "the usage of the word 'dalliance' in this case..." or "... the limited age bracket"

Rather than the vague "I can't tell you anything, do you have questions? Oh, I can't answer your questions or tell you anything. Goodbye."

This game's GM's do a right terrible job 90% of the time due to refusing to ever inform anyone of what they actually did, and have pretty piss poor discretion half the time from there. Ignoring whether the ruling is just or not, there should still be a clear outline provided to the player, especially when an account that the player pays to use is on the line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Ignoring the definition, the GM should just flat out say "the usage of the word 'dalliance' in this case..." or "... the limited age bracket"

Rather than the vague "I can't tell you anything, do you have questions? Oh, I can't answer your questions or tell you anything. Goodbye."

This game's GM's do a right terrible job 90% of the time due to refusing to ever inform anyone of what they actually did, and have pretty piss poor discretion half the time from there. Ignoring whether the ruling is just or not, there should still be a clear outline provided to the player, especially when an account that the player pays to use is on the line.

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I can't argue with that at all. Communication is key. I do wish they'd be more open about things. If someone is reported, they deserve to know why. Not who reported them, obviously, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a simple explanation like "you did x, don't do it again".

Seriously? There is no information given whatsoever on the actual reason of reprimand. Grow up.

The issue at hand is we have nothing but speculation, ONCE AGAIN, with no clear definition of WHY the ToS were violated. People deserve clear reasons. You cannot be rightfully held accountable on something you don't know you did.

I'll happily post my PF ad. φVENUE NAME HERE φGoth/SynthVenueφ11-3CSTφLOCATION HERE CARRD HERE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw

The issue at hand is we have nothing but speculation, ONCE AGAIN, with no clear definition of WHY the ToS were violated. People deserve clear reasons. You cannot be rightfully held accountable on something you don't know you did.

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It was plain as day regarding the first "case". The 2nd I'm guessing the OP intentionally left ambiguous just to try and further their point. The only thing I can agree with is that the GMs need to be more open about why they are punishing someone. I have never disputed that at all, regardless of the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Zailin

I feel like if you're going to quote a dictionary meaning, you should probably quote the whole thing instead of picking and choosing what part suits your narrative, dove.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dal·li·ance
/ˈdalēəns/
Learn to pronounce
noun

a casual romantic or sexual relationship.
"Jack was not averse to an occasional dalliance with a pretty girl"

brief or casual involvement with something.
"Berkeley was my last dalliance with the education system"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Considering it was 18+, and in the PF, I doubt it was the 2nd thing. You must be new here. Hi, and welcome. People have been using alternate words/definitions to circumvent the system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Dalliance-a casual romantic or sexual relationship

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

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I feel like if you're going to quote a dictionary meaning, you should probably quote the whole thing instead of picking and choosing what part suits your narrative, dove.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dal·li·ance
/ˈdalēəns/
Learn to pronounce
noun

a casual romantic or sexual relationship.
"Jack was not averse to an occasional dalliance with a pretty girl"

brief or casual involvement with something.
"Berkeley was my last dalliance with the education system"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-were-resolved

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belgamin

Let's skip the point where we've now seen several GMs publicly disagree on how to handle venue ads and 18+ venues

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The screenshot that went around of a GM saying that all these forms of roleplay are acceptable was from years ago before the prohibited activities had been reviewed, so we should focus on what has been said recently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

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Pointing out the definition of that word was helpful. I think it explains why the PF was in violation since the GM indicated "18+" were not the offending characters in the advert.

>You broke the rules.
How did I break the rules?

>I can't tell you. Don't break the rules anymore.
But I don't know what I did.

>Here are the rules, don't break them again or else.
Can you tell me which rule I broke?

>No because privacy policy.

Well that's brilliant. The privacy policy prevents them from discussing account violations with the account holder? That's some privacy policy right there. It's unlikely this is some rogue GM off doing their own thing cracking down on people for having in-game sexy times. I only say this because generally customer service and support staff don't have the kind of free time necessary to conduct a personal crusade. So this is actual policy...somewhere. This person has been told to do this.

GM AZILENOEXPLANATION did the same thing before, I was cited with simply 3.3 on the ToS with no explanation given. This incident did get a TAD more information than mine.

ESRB is T which means 13+, you may say 18+ but SE doesn't need bad press from angry parents because there son or daughter goes to an event like this. It not like you can ID someone coming to the event. Sorry I know a lot of these goes on in mmos, I did it a lot with my now hubby. But private party is different then publicly announcing it. So I have to agree with SE on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

ESRB is T which means 13+, you may say 18+ but SE doesn't need bad press from angry parents because there son or daughter goes to an event like this. It not like you can ID someone coming to the event. Sorry I know a lot of these goes on in mmos, I did it a lot with my now hubby. But private party is different then publicly announcing it. So I have to agree with SE on this one.

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"Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB"

Regardless of the definition of the word "dalliance", the GM should tell players what they've done wrong full stop, rather than refusing to answer questions and then booting them from Mordion Gaol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuumin

"Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB"

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That is true but that now how the media would portray it.

Fox new how ffxiv is grooming your child full story at well now because news is 24 hours a day.

As far a TOS they don't have to explain anything and they can cut you off for any reason.

It's hard to take RPers seriously when it comes to this because of this genuinely hilarious bad-faith fantasy they engage in and pretend [18+] totally doesn't imply ERP 95% of the time. Anyone who spends a lot of time amongst Roleplayers knows this is complete and utter disingenuous BS. I'm four years deep on Balmung and have interacted with hundreds of roleplayers socially in that time. I've had more or less a front-row seat to the metamorphosis the RP community has gone through; ERP was always a thing, but the game began to develop an outside reputation for it and people migrated exponentially from other platforms to get in on it. I think SE is catching on and wants to ensure the games public image isn't taken in that direction.

There's absolutely a time and place for degeneracy. There are a lot of wonderful platforms where it's acceptable and encouraged to link up with other consenting adults with similar interests and let your desires run wild. FFXIV just isn't that place, and I'm glad the GMs are stepping up and policing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's hard to take RPers seriously when it comes to this because of this genuinely hilarious bad-faith fantasy they engage in and pretend [18+] totally doesn't imply ERP 95% of the time. Anyone who spends a lot of time amongst Roleplayers knows this is complete and utter disingenuous BS. I'm four years deep on Balmung and have interacted with hundreds of roleplayers socially in that time. I've had more or less a front-row seat to the metamorphosis the RP community has gone through; ERP was always a thing, but the game began to develop an outside reputation for it and people migrated exponentially from other platforms to get in on it. I think SE is catching on and wants to ensure the games public image isn't taken in that direction.

There's absolutely a time and place for degeneracy. There are a lot of wonderful platforms where it's acceptable and encouraged to link up with other consenting adults with similar interests and let your desires run wild. FFXIV just isn't that place, and I'm glad the GMs are stepping up and policing it.

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You can act like the purity police all you want, but I literally just stand there roleplaying mixing drinks all night twice a week, which is not exactly what I would consider degeneracy. An age tag shouldn't matter, and neither should a random, non-explicit word? If it's a word that can literally be found in-game, why can't a player say it? That's ridiculous.

It did sound like said GM back pedalled a bit and I think some kind of official statement ought be made rather than clumsy GM responses of them trying to avoid saying something they're not supposed to would help a deal. Especially here where it sounds like where it is both okay and not okay because GM has to be vague, but at the same time, he was less vague than others

By all means contest it and if the actions get reversed you know it's a GM problem, if they don't, you know it's intentional.

With that said, by now it looks pretty clear this is about advertising 18+ RP in PF, whether rightly or wrongly, that's what's being targeted.

When this all got cleared up last time regular non-18+ RP was caught in the crossfire. Since then I've not heard of non-18+ RP PF's being taken down. And the statement sounds like they were trying to go after legitimate violations. And they explicitly said it's fine for RP and social use.

So I deduce that:
- Regular RP Advertisements are fine.
- 18+ RP Advertisements are not.

Which I think is fair. It's not an 18+ game even if online interactions are not rated. An 18+ warning isn't enough to keep away horny teenagers. The law in some countries can be very harsh on people who engage with minors even when they lie about their age. I am all for leaving to their own devices and ERP because people do it in private and don't force it into view of anybody. Heck the advertisements don't bother me personally either but there are risks of public advertisement and it sounds like they are stamping down on said advertisements.

Yes, I am aware 18+ doesn't always mean ERP, but let's face it, in most scenarios it is. And even then, they might see other 18+ advertisements inappropriate too.

But I can empathise with the continued vagueness, because it seems many have been left under the impression it's all fine and it was cleared up. Heck, I was left under the impression they were dealing with case by case advertisements and it was about whether the people engaging were breaking the law. But it sounds like it might be blanket 18+ ones they going after.

Either way, safest bet, contest it, if you're still found guilty of wrong doing, let the community know so they know they shouldn't be advertising 18+.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuumin

You can act like the purity police all you want, but I literally just stand there roleplaying mixing drinks all night twice a week, which is not exactly what I would consider degeneracy. An age tag shouldn't matter, and neither should a random, non-explicit word? If it's a word that can literally be found in-game, why can't a player say it? That's ridiculous.

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Because Square Enix holds players to a separate standard than that of the content of the game. The games content is vetted by an external authority, considered acceptable and given a rating. It's static. Random interactions between players aren't, which is exactly where the ToS and moderation comes in. "Online interactions not rated" exists solely to protect the external rating authority, and has little to do at with the way the operating company of the game chooses to moderate player content.

Think of it this way;

Kids read books in school all the time that contain language they'll be disciplined for using. The content of the books are static, and the parents and teachers have agreed its acceptable for them to be exposed to it in that context.

But again, it's hard to take this issue seriously when the RPers that try to come and argue on these boards about this often have things like.. publicly accessible carrds, flists and venue sites that lay out in explicit terms exactly what their interests are. The very OP of this thread is no exception.

Being specific could identify the reporter, because it will probably jog your memory to who was involved and then you might be upset at them. Sometimes the reporter will even be obvious despite that, so they advise the reporter to blacklist in case.

For an advert an exception could be made, because there isn't a way to know who reported these.

I think enough information was provided though. Reminding you about the age rating of the game indicates that they thought the event was, in all reasonable likelihood, inappropriate.

Given their past declared stance on the matter, I feel like there's some keywords they're okay with and some their not when used in combination with the 18+ tags.

Iirc, in that previous thread that got locked up, the rp venues had the 18+ listings but suggested only night clubbing activities. The gms did not have a problem with those type of adverts.

This gm saw "dalliances" with "18+" and probably made the immediate assumption that the whole thing was about sexual activities.

If what I said holds true, then moving forward, Rp venues should simply avoid using words in their advertisement that are defined or partially defined as sexual activities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Being specific could identify the reporter, because it will probably jog your memory to who was involved and then you might be upset at them. Sometimes the reporter will even be obvious despite that, so they advise the reporter to blacklist in case.

For an advert an exception could be made, because there isn't a way to know who reported these.

I think enough information was provided though. Reminding you about the age rating of the game indicates that they thought the event was, in all reasonable likelihood, inappropriate.

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Specifics should be provided on a platform you pay to use. Full stop.

If you figure out who the reporter is, and then harass them, the GM's should then be pulled back to do their job again. It's not like GM's don't have the capability to deal with the situation if it's properly brought to their attention. And they're there for some reason, even if going after PF RP adverts while letting that one dude shout all kinds of obscenities in Novice Network on Aether seems to take precedence for... whatever reason. Unless they finally dealt with him, lol.

This level of ambiguity is stupid. Almost intolerably stupid.

As for the content of the ads; removing [18+] won't do anything if people think it will. It'll be the exact same event, just without the tag attached to it. It's kind of a moot point, and the only lesson here is: run your 18+ event, just don't say it's 18+ lol

I dont get how this targeted but the RMT is left to abuse the party finder in multiple ways.

How about we just do the courteous thing and stop advertising 18+ venues in a public space whereby people not of appropriate age are exposed to them in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zailin

I feel like if you're going to quote a dictionary meaning, you should probably quote the whole thing instead of picking and choosing what part suits your narrative, dove.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dal·li·ance
/ˈdalēəns/
Learn to pronounce
noun

a casual romantic or sexual relationship.
"Jack was not averse to an occasional dalliance with a pretty girl"

brief or casual involvement with something.
"Berkeley was my last dalliance with the education system"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Sure, but it isn't exactly a very clever idea to advertise 18+, whilst simultaneously using the dalliance. Any reasonable individual will infer they're talking about a casual romantic or sexual relationship (the former and not the latter).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Specifics should be provided on a platform you pay to use. Full stop.

If you figure out who the reporter is, and then harass them, the GM's should then be pulled back to do their job again. It's not like GM's don't have the capability to deal with the situation if it's properly brought to their attention. And they're there for some reason, even if going after PF RP adverts while letting that one dude shout all kinds of obscenities in Novice Network on Aether seems to take precedence for... whatever reason. Unless they finally dealt with him, lol.

This level of ambiguity is stupid. Almost intolerably stupid.

As for the content of the ads; removing [18+] won't do anything if people think it will. It'll be the exact same event, just without the tag attached to it. It's kind of a moot point, and the only lesson here is: run your 18+ event, just don't say it's 18+ lol

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This game is rated T for Teen which the ESRB rates as 13+ so unless SE wants to get into a situation where an RP event turns into an ERP (which eventually it does) and its found out that there was someone underaged who participated, legal action may ensue. I have noticed an influx of casinos, "specialty" venues and even multiple alts, as of late and limsa is starting to become questionable at peak times. Imo they need to reduce the character limit from 40 to 8 per account to curtail excessive bots/alts/RMT/PF ads, but that's a different topic all together. However I'm not sure why RP are being targeted when Yoshi promotes RP but I guess you lie in the bed you made.

Source: https://www.esrb.org/ratings-guide/

The real reason we'll never get clear answers: GM's are finally just so tilted over not being able to do anything about the RMT that they have to vent their frustrations somewhere and RP venues are the perfect target.

Clearly it's the only obvious answer.

I see Section 3.3 is going full force against these illegal RPers. What a chad!

You wanna advertise something, use fellowships. PF is for raiders!

That's stupid. How do you "fix" your behaviour without knowing what you did wrong.

I'm inclined to believe that the GM's are doing appropriate research in regards to these venues. In some cases, the venues are advertised as adult only - which is a major red flag in itself. In other cases its much more subtle, with links to third party sites such as Twitter or carrd detailing the more inappropriate details subtly or directly. Furthermore, if one were to search Twitter tags for night clubs and the like (which I advise against doing), a lot of the screenshots show the use of adult mods and inappropriate situations in bountiful measures.

It used to be subtle in the sense that people had the sense to at least try to keep such things behind closed doors. Now such activities seem to be used as a badge of honour by a growing portion of the community. Since nobody can say for certain whether other players are actually of legal age or not, I'm far from surprised to see the GM's take a hard stance against this sort of thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Dalliance-a casual romantic or sexual relationship

Welp, guess we know the issue here. This venue rolled the dice just by hosting, let alone posting in the PF. No one should be surprised that action was taken at this point. Good on the GM for doing their job.

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Couldn't agree more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

This gm saw "dalliances" with "18+" and probably made the immediate assumption that the whole thing was about sexual activities.

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I don't think it's the GM showing any initiative and scanning party finder, it's the GM directly acting on someone's complaint. He says as much. The party finder is more of a side issue.

I'd more say that - like any game - the GM investigating the report has the complete ability to pull a record of all chat - say/party/tell - over the last few days as evidence, and if need be even watch while invisible. They also know all billing details and stated ages of the people involved.

I think people considering the GM is watching the party finder for words like 18+, or "daliance", or a flist/carrd, are not seeing the real reason. These words are bait to the white-knighting players reporting. But once that white-knight has reported the venue, the GM's job is to investigate and act.


What is being done wrong is... SE don't want public sex in the game. If someone reports it, a GM will be investigating.

The witch hunt for venues is still active I see.

We all know that GMs aren't gonna do crap about them without direct proof of the witch hunt doing this for malicious reasons. We also all know that they can be very one sided with how they investigate reports. This isn't okay in the slightest and they should at least be able to reference where something violates the ToS.

The thing is, if nothing is going to change, what do ya'll want to do about it? If fighting with the GMs is basically leading to a brick wall moment and the witch hunt shows no sign of stopping, is using the 18+ tag still worth it? He did say in the first screen that it had to do with age, I'm not sure why he backpedaled on that and tried to make it out like it was just a passing suggestion. So, it seems to me that those who use the 18+ tag will be targeted. Dalliances can be a bit iffy but it's better than the one advert I've seen recently where they literally called themselves a brothel.

Holy crap, again?
I almost feel bad for the people who report the RP venues if they don't have nothing else to do.

It's perfectly possible for people to lie about their age online, so simply stating an age limit isn't really enough to cover the legal bases. The simple solution is to...not advertise or partake of anything that can be seen as sleazy or inappropriate. Maybe these player led establishments can rebrand themselves as something more innocent, such as a regular cafe or restaurant.