Premature reinstatement of auto demolition

Hello everyone and thank you for reading this. I'm posting to raise awareness and concern over the decision to reinstate auto demolition during these trying times when many are still economically impacted by the pandemic that still rages out of control. On March 26 2020 Square Enix decided to suspend auto demolition of housing citing concerns of the economic impact of the virus.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...211113e4ab392f

This was a wonderful show of compassion from the company. However, in November of 2020, Square Enix decided to reinstate auto demolition citing, and I'm paraphrasing, the impact of the virus could go on far longer than expected and thus they would be reinstating auto demolition as of the release of 5.4 in December of 2020.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...634fa6df3f42b8

This feels like a slap in the face to those more impacted than others. The decision seems to go on the assumption that the player base is impacted equally which it is not. I have had to watch as friends and loved ones have left after losing their homes while recovering from the impact of the pandemic. Many of my friends and acquaintances in the medical field have lost their homes in game not from a desire to play but from a lack of time as they are working twelve or sixteen hour days often six to seven days a week depending on virus outbreaks. Reinstating auto demolition was an atrocious decision. With the vast amount of housing that was in development when these decisions were made, there was no good reason to take current players housing from them.

Make this right Square. Roll back housing to the state it was in before the release of patch 5.4. Give back the homes of these players who were already suffering from the pandemic only suffer the indignity of losing their Eorzean home that brought them happiness in these bleak times. Show the compassion you showed at the beginning. Yes, it will be hard work restoring all the homes to their owners and it will disappoint players who have purchased a home made available by this decision, however, it is the right thing to do. Auto demolition should not have been reinstated nor should it be reinstated until the impact of the pandemic is over.

Thank you for reading

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Originally Posted by Pyrious

Make this right Square. Roll back housing to the state it was in before the release of patch 5.4. Give back the homes of these players

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I dont think they can do this without resetting all housing to the way it was in, what, December?
Anything people did to change their house in almost 4 months would be gone, items irrevocably lost forever.
Anyone who bought a house in that time would have it yanked from them.
Etc.
That's such a big ask I dont think we can reasonably expect it, especially since they gave us such a heads up auto demo was going to be coming back on.

I do understand and agree with your statement. I do still think the decision of the reinstatement and the reasoning behind it is absurd and needs addressed. It was very poor timing to make the decision and I do think it would go a long way to do something for those, specifically speaking of those in the healthcare field with no free time, who lost something. I did not lose my home and have taken appropriate steps not to, however, I have watched as friends and loved ones have lost theirs. I have seen the heartbreak and tears as loyal players and die hard fans have lost homes to the reinstatement. Real life couples who built digital homes together to feel closer even though they are apart have lost what is to them a symbol of their love. Something needs to be done to address this and make it right.

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Originally Posted by Pyrious

Make this right Square. Roll back housing to the state it was in before the release of patch 5.4. Give back the homes of these players who were already suffering from the pandemic only suffer the indignity of losing their Eorzean home that brought them happiness in these bleak times..

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You can't do that without taking away those home from someone else who worked hard to get them as well. Whether or not the demolition timer should have be restarted is another issue but pretty much a done deal at this time. There is no way they'll undo that decision at this point in time in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Pyrious

I do understand and agree with your statement. I do still think the decision of the reinstatement and the reasoning behind it is absurd and needs addressed.
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Something needs to be done to address this and make it right.

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Perhaps, but resetting housing ain't it.
At best that's just gonna replace one set of tears with another (those who lose their house to auto demo vs to the reset).
What other ways of addressing the problem would you like to see? Is there something else you think could work.

Doing a rollback is not the solution to this issue. Not sure how the heck you even came to that conclusion. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I understand my "eye for an eye" solution is harsh. Other options could be to give those who lost houses priority when new housing is added such as allowing them to purchase houses in the upcoming wards one day before others have access or making the new Island Sanctuaries a type of instanced housing that allows players to still use houses (walls, roofs, fences, prefabs) to recreate the homes they lost during this time while allowing them to share them with friends and loved ones.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Doing a rollback is not the solution to this issue. Not sure how the heck you even came to that conclusion. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

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You're absolutely right. It is an unjust idea born of anger from seeing the anguish of friends and loved ones who have suffered additional loss during an already difficult time. There are better solutions.

This is a game. People that lost homes allowed others to fulfill their dreams and buy one. You can even prorate your subscription by logging for one day and then cancelling. People who lost their house due to hardships either 1. shouldn't be playing in the first place because life has more pressing matters and 2. didn't want to put in work to pay a fraction of their subscription to keep their house (pay for a month, login, cancel sub, wait close to 45 days, resub, repeat). I wouldn't have gotten my house without autodemo so I am grateful it came back.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

People who lost their house due to hardships either 1. shouldn't be playing in the first place because life has more pressing matters

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And what about if they come back to the game AFTER said hardships have been dealt with? Are they worthy of your pity then?

I strongly disagree with any sort of rollback, but I really dislike this stance of "they got better stuff to do" to just shrug off people losing in-game assets through no fault of their own. Going through hardship doesn't automatically make someone not think about or not want to play a game. A lot of people experiencing hardship right now are dreaming of when things can go back to a normal boring life to do things like play a game. I know someone who was hospitalised for over two months due to covid and they were only able to keep their house because someone else logged in on their behalf. Even when they were suffering in bed they were thinking about when they could go back to the game and finish decorating. They had the awful luck of falling ill very shortly before demolition came back.

I am glad you got your house, congrats. I know how frustrating the housing system is. It sucks. I'm glad that chapter is finally over for you. I just want people to have a bit more compassion for those who lost theirs because of a crazy situation entirely out of their control.

All this just shows how intensely broken the housing system is. So many times demolition has been paused because of large scale disasters. If we had a proper instanced housing system this entire sort of conversation wouldn't even vaguely exist. Some people who lost their house due to covid spent years trying to get it. There is something wrong with an in-game asset if you can spend years trying to get it, and then lose it so quickly purely because of bad luck that didn't even take place in the game. I'm so tired of this song and dance. I wish we had a proper housing system so we could all enjoy it without any worry.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And what about if they come back to the game AFTER said hardships have been dealt with? Are they worthy of your pity then?

I strongly disagree with any sort of rollback, but I really dislike this stance of "they got better stuff to do" to just shrug off people losing in-game assets through no fault of their own. Going through hardship doesn't automatically make someone not think about or not want to play a game. A lot of people experiencing hardship right now are dreaming of when things can go back to a normal boring life to do things like play a game. I know someone who was hospitalised for over two months due to covid and they were only able to keep their house because someone else logged in on their behalf. Even when they were suffering in bed they were thinking about when they could go back to the game and finish decorating. They had the awful luck of falling ill very shortly before demolition came back.

I am glad you got your house, congrats. I know how frustrating the housing system is. It sucks. I'm glad that chapter is finally over for you. I just want people to have a bit more compassion for those who lost theirs because of a crazy situation entirely out of their control.

All this just shows how intensely broken the housing system is. So many times demolition has been paused because of large scale disasters. If we had a proper instanced housing system this entire sort of conversation wouldn't even vaguely exist. Some people who lost their house due to covid spent years trying to get it. There is something wrong with an in-game asset if you can spend years trying to get it, and then lose it so quickly purely because of bad luck that didn't even take place in the game. I'm so tired of this song and dance. I wish we had a proper housing system so we could all enjoy it without any worry.

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They aren't wrong though when they say "they've got other things to worry about", because it's true. However, I agree that coming back to the game and losing their house (after losing enough time due to unforeseen financial hardship or illness, or in the worst case suffering a loss of someone close to them) is salt in an open wound. If the system were better, no one would have to worry about losing their house. In my opinion, having a sense of normalcy after so much has hypothetically changed is just as important in the process of moving past a horrible event. The little things matter. I'm speaking from experience, though not exactly related to housing in a video game. But the same logic applies.

If they have returned to the game and discovered they have lost their house, it would be better for them to come individually to the forums to express their thoughts and feelings rather than for you to claim you speak for them.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

They aren't wrong though when they say "they've got other things to worry about", because it's true.

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I agree, it just appeared that the person I was responding to didn't seem to think about -after- these people's lives became normal enough again to log in to the game. And it irritated me.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

However, I agree that coming back to the game and losing their house (after losing enough time, or in the worst case someone close to them) is salt in an open wound. If the system were better, no one would have to worry about losing their house. In my opinion, having a sense of normalcy after so much has hypothetically changed is just as important in the process of moving past a horrible event.

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Exactly this. The person I know who nearly lost their house due to being hospitalised was so thankful that someone else helped them keep their house. Their health is still not good but they were very happy to go back to the game and continue like they never left. Their world was turned upside down but at least their game remained the same. Which is how it should be for everyone. It's so sad that it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I agree, it just appeared that the person I was responding to didn't seem to think about -after- these people's lives became normal enough again to log in to the game. And it irritated me.



Exactly this. The person I know who nearly lost their house due to being hospitalised was so thankful that someone else helped them keep their house. Their health is still not good but they were very happy to go back to the game and continue like they never left. Their world was turned upside down but at least their game remained the same. Which is how it should be for everyone. It's so sad that it isn't.

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The problem is where do you draw the line? How do you determine someone is not playing because of serious real life situations as opposed to they just didn't feel like playing for 6-12 months?
How do you justify denying content to active paying customers (the ones who are paying to keep the game operating) for the benefit of those who aren't and who may never return?

Yes, it's a situation of SE's making because they refuse to do the smart thing and move to a comprehensive instanced house system as other MMOs have. But it exists and that means hard decisions have to be made.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

You can even prorate your subscription by logging for one day and then cancelling.

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You can't do that. Cancelling a sub only takes effect the next time you are due to pay for it.

Only retainers are charged pro-rata according to your subscription length, because they're tied to your main subscription instead of having a separate renewal cycle.

The Auto Demolition works as intended, there was given warning as assuming that people who is interested in playing this game, also would keep on the the news and such.. it was a fair warning... with X patch... and then the run of 45 days to go back and claim your house.. or it being lost.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The problem is where do you draw the line? How do you determine someone is not playing because of serious real life situations as opposed to they just didn't feel like playing for 6-12 months?
How do you justify denying content to active paying customers (the ones who are paying to keep the game operating) for the benefit of those who aren't and who may never return?

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I'm not talking about any lines, I'm just wishing people would have more compassion for those whose lives have been ruined because of the pandemic. I wish there wouldn't need to be any line drawn so no one would have to lose anything unless they choose to, which would mean a proper housing system.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Yes, it's a situation of SE's making because they refuse to do the smart thing and move to a comprehensive instanced house system as other MMOs have. But it exists and that means hard decisions have to be made.

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It's very frustrating that this entire situation is avoidable. Had they updated the system considerably...well the housing forums would look very different : /

Sigh.

People that can actually play get to enjoy housing once they get one? That’s bad???

Let the people that have been trying for ages and got one enjoy it. The people that lost have much bigger issues than a teleport spot with custom pixels

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm not talking about any lines, I'm just wishing people would have more compassion for those whose lives have been ruined because of the pandemic.

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The compassion is there. But It needs to be applied in a place where it makes a difference - real life. If you want to help a first responder who's struggling, do it in meaningful ways like doing their household chores and running errands like grocery shopping for them so when they do get those few stray hours away from work that aren't given over to exhausted sleep, they can do relaxing things with that time instead.

An online game is a frivolous and temporary luxury item subject to change without notice. It should never be given such importance that what you do or don't have within the game can ruin your life. If you ever get to that point, seek help for your addiction because that what the game has become for you.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

An online game is a frivolous and temporary luxury item subject to change without notice. It should never be given such importance that what you do or don't have within the game can ruin your life. If you ever get to that point, seek help for your addiction because that what the game has become for you.

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I personally don't think stuff being from "just a game" is any excuse to be very flippant when someone loses something that could be incredibly difficult to get again, especially if they lost it due to a horrible situation. I think it's very disrespectful to diminish how someone feels about losing something that isn't easy to replace regardless of whether it's physical or digital.

For me this game is not frivolous. I met my boyfriend in this game and we have been together for over four years. I have met some of my closest friends in this game. This game changed my life. Yes one day the game will be gone, but isn't that the case with everything? Nothing lasts forever.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The compassion is there. But It needs to be applied in a place where it makes a difference - real life.

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I don't think it is when some people appear to be very happy that they can benefit from someone's unfortunate circumstances due to the pandemic. Not saying anyone here in this thread is like this but it is an attitude I have seen over the past year. Some have been clearly very content that the pandemic essentially gave them a house.

I don't disagree that helping irl is a great thing and can easily be more impactful, but this doesn't mean that having the things you enjoy in a game being there for you to interact with them cannot improve your happiness.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

For me this game is not frivolous. I met my boyfriend in this game and we have been together for over four years. I have met some of my closest friends in this game. This game changed my life. Yes one day the game will be gone, but isn't that the case with everything? Nothing lasts forever.
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But it was those real life relationships you created with people you met that really changed your life and not the digital "property" you acquired in the game, correct?

Things in a game are just that - things - and they can be replaced if lost. Not necessarily quickly or with little effort but they can be replaced. Getting too attached to a thing, whether physical or digital, is not healthy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But it was those real life relationships you created with people you met that really changed your life and not the digital "property" you acquired in the game, correct?

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If I didn't play the game I probably would not have met them at all. The only person in my circle of friends in the game that I would have met anyway is an irl friend I knew since long before I played. I'm from the Republic of Ireland which shares a border with only a small portion of the UK. Anything else our border touches is water. Everyone dear I met in the game live in a place that would require a plane ticket for me to visit. Some of these people don't even live in Europe. The likelihood of meeting them anyway outside of the game is microscopically small given my disability very often prevents me from leaving my own home, never mind travel a lot. I wouldn't have met them all in another game because FFXIV is the only online game we all play. Certainly I wouldn't have met my boyfriend at all because the only overlap in online gaming we have is FFXIV.

Because my disability keeps me at home so much, even without a pandemic, gaming is the only real outlet I have to express myself and meet people. I can't do many of the other things I love very often because my body just says "no". This isn't easy to deal with, but gaming makes it more manageable by allowing me to still engage in something enjoyable without my disability constantly getting in the way. I started playing FFXIV during a very dark period in my life and for quite some time it was the only thing that kept me from breaking down. Sure someone could criticise this and call it escapism, and say I should have dealt with my problems instead of game, but my disability has no cure and at the time doctors were struggling to figure out what it was so the treatment I was getting just wasn't working. My problems were beyond my power to tackle.

So no it's not just the people who changed my life, the game did. I understand not everyone has the same experiences and that's fine. But for me FFXIV isn't just a bunch of pixels. It's the reason why I didn't fall into a spiral of despair, and the reason why I met so many people I treasure.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Things in a game are just that - things - and they can be replaced if lost. Not necessarily quickly or with little effort but they can be replaced. Getting too attached to a thing, whether physical or digital, is not healthy.

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Sentimental value is a thing and if you don't extend it to a digital plane that's fine. That's how you live your life. But it's not how everyone else does.

Also not everything is replaceable. I own some items that were crafted by family members who died before I was born. The only photograph of my paternal grandmother and I is in my possession and if it got lost it cannot be replaced because she died a long time ago. I would be devastated if I lost those things.

As for FFXIV, yes a person can maybe get another house. But is it the same house? No. I don't value my digital house as much as the above items, but I still care about it a great deal.

And as someone else said having some normalcy after or during a horrible chapter in your life can really help people to cope, and for some people part of it are the things they acquired in a game.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

In my opinion, having a sense of normalcy after so much has hypothetically changed is just as important in the process of moving past a horrible event. The little things matter. I'm speaking from experience, though not exactly related to housing in a video game. But the same logic applies.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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You're still not understanding the point I am trying to make. The game in general allowed you to make those real life connections, which gives the game some importance as a social medium.

But the individual things in the game? They weren't important to the process.

As for the things not being replaceable in real life (which I won't argue against, real life isn't built like a game), why do those things such value? Because of the memories they trigger. Even if the item is gone, those memories remain with you. It is still that people connection that is what was really important.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But the individual things in the game? They weren't important to the process.

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Uhh...you actually don't know this at all given you don't know my entire history with the game. A lot of good memories happened because of specific things in the game, including my house. I'm far from the only person who can say this.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

As for the things not being replaceable in real life (which I won't argue against, real life isn't built like a game), why do those things such value? Because of the memories they trigger. Even if the item is gone, those memories remain with you. It is still that people connection that is what was really important.

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I don't actually have much of a connection to the dead family members who crafted those trinkets because I never met them. For my whole life they have been people in old sepia photos with some stories to go with them. However the things they made are truly beautiful, and I very much appreciate the talent and craftsmanship that they display. Because I never knew them those items are the only real connection I have to them. And these things they created tell me far more about them than an old photo ever could. If were to lose them I would lose the only meaningful connection I have to these people.

As for the photo of my grandmother, yes it does trigger memories and they are more important than the photo. But it's the only way I can see her face again. Memories can fade with time but as long as I have the photo the image of her face never will.

You and I clearly have very different life experiences and have a very different outlook on what matters. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us are wrong. We're just different people.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Uhh...you actually don't know this at all given you don't know my entire history with the game. A lot of good memories happened because of specific things in the game, including my house. I'm far from the only person who can say this.



I don't actually have much of a connection to the dead family members who crafted those trinkets because I never met them. For my whole life they have been people in old sepia photos with some stories to go with them. However the things they made are truly beautiful, and I very much appreciate the talent and craftsmanship that they display. Because I never knew them those items are the only real connection I have to them. And these things they created tell me far more about them than an old photo ever could. If were to lose them I would lose the only meaningful connection I have to these people.

As for the photo of my grandmother, yes it does trigger memories and they are more important than the photo. But it's the only way I can see her face again. Memories can fade with time but as long as I have the photo the image of her face never will.

You and I clearly have very different life experiences and have a very different outlook on what matters. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us are wrong. We're just different people.

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This is a video game, apologies, but really?

I think real life issues > anything related to game, game items is dead items and can be gotten back over time for a dead currency that only work in the game... if game start to overshadow real life and what is in real life of important events, then may need to reconsider some things before keeping moving on.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

This is a video game, apologies, but really?

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Maybe read the previous post and perhaps the tiniest part of you will understand why I don't consider this game to be merely pixels.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

I think real life issues > anything related to game, game items is dead items and can be gotten back over time for a dead currency that only work in the game... if game start to overshadow real life and what is in real life of important events, then may need to reconsider some things before keeping moving on.

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Well this just proves you didn't read much of what I posted given I never said "game > real life" at any point. I was only explaining how digital things can be important to someone. And then explaining that not everything is replaceable whether it's digital or not.

And this is all I will say on this particular matter because anything else would just be repetition.

I would just like people to show more compassion to those who lost something that is difficult to replace through no fault of their own. That situation sucks no matter what you lost. I find some people's attitudes towards those who lost their house during the pandemic to be awful.

Again I emphasise that I'm against a rollback. I think the only way to fix this situation is to have a proper housing system that excludes and punishes no one. Which likely won't happen -_-

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

This is a video game, apologies, but really?

I think real life issues > anything related to game, game items is dead items and can be gotten back over time for a dead currency that only work in the game... if game start to overshadow real life and what is in real life of important events, then may need to reconsider some things before keeping moving on.

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It's entirely possible to form an emotional attachment to a game. Or anything, really. I have my own reasons for having them with this one, and there are certain objects in real life that evoke good as well as painful memories. Sure, real life takes precedence over any game, and this one is no exception...but you are missing the point entirely. That is probably because you just don't understand. It might take having certain experiences for that to happen though.

How about we just get more houses instead?

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

How about we just get more houses instead?

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Already said in other discussion that it is physically impossible for supply to meet demand

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Already said in other discussion that it is physically impossible for supply to meet demand

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And yet it clearly had a positive effect on the housing community. In the absence of other solutions by SE to the ongoing problem (which seems to never ever be likely at this point) they may as well add even more houses.

Hey, enough bandaids can even stop arterial bleeding. Maybe...

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Maybe read the previous post and perhaps the tiniest part of you will understand why I don't consider this game to be merely pixels.



Well this just proves you didn't read much of what I posted given I never said "game > real life" at any point. I was only explaining how digital things can be important to someone. And then explaining that not everything is replaceable whether it's digital or not.

And this is all I will say on this particular matter because anything else would just be repetition.

I would just like people to show more compassion to those who lost something that is difficult to replace through no fault of their own. That situation sucks no matter what you lost. I find some people's attitudes towards those who lost their house during the pandemic to be awful.

Again I emphasise that I'm against a rollback. I think the only way to fix this situation is to have a proper housing system that excludes and punishes no one. Which likely won't happen -_-

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I did read a lot of the things, not just your post, yours was the first one to come to mind, and yes... it seem like people want handouts, instead of being in the game, the time that it was in corona lock down, was and is long enough, you get information, when your stuff runs out, and gives you enough time to buy a month to log in and extent that time, you can keep just to the base subscription, that only permit one character as well, items should not be kept out of the game, so others can not get any fun with them.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

I did read a lot of the things, not just your post, yours was the first one to come to mind, and yes... it seem like people want handouts, instead of being in the game

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I don't know how my posts are related to anyone wanting a handout. Literally did not mention giving anyone anything for free. You can agree that losing something that you had no power to prevent sucks whether you agree with handouts or not. But it appears you're more interested in blaming people for their circumstances rather than acknowledge something called bad luck.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I don't know how my posts are related to anyone wanting a handout. Literally did not mention giving anyone anything for free. You can agree that losing something that you had no power to prevent sucks whether you agree with handouts or not. But it appears you're more interested in blaming people for their circumstances rather than acknowledge something called bad luck.

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I don't see a valid argument for the autodemolition to be be temporarely removed again, it is clear that we are going to live with the situation for years to come as it is, and keeping plots hostage for people that may not return for years is unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

I don't see a valid argument for the autodemolition to be be temporarely removed again, it is clear that we are going to live with the situation for years to come as it is, and keeping plots hostage for people that may not return for years is unreasonable.

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I didn't talk about removing auto demo either but okay.

I can't help but wonder... Can it even be done? They would have to keep records of how the housing wards were back ar the point they decided to re-instate the auto demo, that has to have changed significantly. And without remembering what was on those houses, such as the items and their positions, can it even be called their house anymore? I don't think they keep that kind of record, so even if they would go scorthed earth on the whole deal, the people that would have their houses back would just get empty plots again with, at best, their storage restored... If that.

So, not only would you be destroying a lot of homes but the restored ones would just be dead ground. And that is assuming they even cared about their houses, it might be that they just wanted a garden patch or something that may be provided by the new islands anyways.

I'm sorry your friends lost their houses, I really am, I know how much hell it is to go Housing (Savage). So I have a solution I can think of that SHOULD he easier to implement. They probably don't keep records of how Wards were last year, but they MIGHT keep records of who got their houses demolished. Give those "relocator" status, as in, allow them to purchase a new home as if they were relocating their old plots. They technically had a housing deed anyway so that might be feasable to implement with an item or something similar.

At best it would allow returning players that got their houses demolished to get a plot back without being at the mercy of that atrocious random timer, that has to be worth a lot. And the worst con would be that it would make Housing (Savage) even savagier, because of an increased numbers of "relocators."