Does anybody else actually like the Vishap fight?

Everywhere I go, people say that they hate Steps of Faith or aka the Vishap fight. When it comes up in roulettes, half the people leave and the other half complain. I have yet to see one good comment about it. I seem to be the only person who ever says something nice about it when it comes up in roulettes.

It could be because of my over-obsessive love for dragons, but I still light the fight itself. Trying to prevent a huge gigantic dragon from evading Ishgard.

I know that it is not a caster friendly fight but neither is Eden's Promise:Umbra. Anyway, I seem to do well in that fight as SMN. Ruin 2 is my best friend in that fight.

I wish that there was an extreme version of the fight. They could make Vishap stepping on you an insta-kill in extreme.

Is there anybody else that actually likes the Vishap fight?

I enjoy it.
It's unique and interesting.
Fighting the swarms of enemies back while also trying to engage a huge dragon? Super cool.
I am also a bit bummed we didn't get an EX version as I think there's more they could do to push the concept (like a version with more teamwork).
Maybe someday they'll revisit the concept in another raid.
Or... maybe we'll get Steps of Faith (Unreal)!!

For me it's just one of those battles that shows up way too often in roulettes, even when there are no new ppl. It also doesn't help that the fight is simple and super fast but no one wants to follow instruction or do mechanics properly which makes it take much longer than it should. Tanks are always holding the adds off in lala land, while the dps ignore the boss until they are dead and no one wants to man the cannons. If you hold the mobs under the boss and have everyone focus on the boss while 1 healer and the off tanks use cannons to take out the adds and damage the boss you can have him down after 1 dragon killer. Quick and faceroll easy.

Steps, Mog and Tsukuyomi seem to be the worst offenders for trials, just like 1000 maws is notorious for popping for leveling. I know SE says they do not weigh the roulette toward any set of fights or dungeons, but there are battles and dungeons that either have never or only once or twice ever popped for roulette unless there was someone new to them while a small handful of others show up 90% of the time. I actually kept track once and after 1 full month after noticing a pattern over the course of months and steps, mog and tsukuyomi popped 24 of the 31 days for both my chars. So yeah, even with the law of random, the probability of that is low if they were not weighted somehow.

I think a lot of people hate it because it required actual teamwork when it first came out. It was a bit of difficulty curve back then that some weren't quite prepared for which resulted in some attempts being...unpleasant. Then the dev team went and nerfed the heck out of it and took what fun there was to be had and threw that out the window into busy traffic. People needing to use their brains? Nope, can't have that! Personally, I always thought it was a cool fight pre nerf. At the time is was something new and different, and the game certainly needed more new then. Even more so now. Post nerf? It's enough to put me to sleep. Aside from add control, all that needs to be done now is dps the boss. Everything else can be ignored. That defeats the entire design of the fight itself.

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Originally Posted by MoltresRider

Everywhere I go, people say that they hate Steps of Faith or aka the Vishap fight. When it comes up in roulettes, half the people leave and the other half complain. I have yet to see one good comment about it. I seem to be the only person who ever says something nice about it when it comes up in roulettes.

It could be because of my over-obsessive love for dragons, but I still light the fight itself. Trying to prevent a huge gigantic dragon from evading Ishgard.

I know that it is not a caster friendly fight but neither is Eden's Promise:Umbra. Anyway, I seem to do well in that fight as SMN. Ruin 2 is my best friend in that fight.

I wish that there was an extreme version of the fight. They could make Vishap stepping on you an insta-kill in extreme.

Is there anybody else that actually likes the Vishap fight?

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Not caster....friendly...?
*Blasts everything with [Stone II] & [Holy] when I roll as a WHM, the most immobile spellcaster*

Ahem..
I loved it personally. While I didn't get to experience the pre-nerf version which I'd kill to do at least once, this is one of those 'different' trials that sorta suits my taste. I love manning the cannon when nobody bothers to do it. I love manning the dragonkiller; pulling this off is a very satisfying feat. I like how they used Vishap's enormous size to incorporate the 'overstepping damage'. It makes you mindful of where you're standing (although not really...we just sorta plant ourselves well inside their hitbox and call it a day).

My only guess is probably because the trial used to be harder and thus garnered a notorious reputation (i.e. wiping too many pugs), and this notoriety has been pretty much ingrained in some playerbase's mind that carried on to this date.

I like it fine. Not my favorite, not at the bottem of my list.

The only legit complaint i remember reading(long ago) is that if your group is failing, you have to wait the entire almost 10 minutes for him to finish crossing the bridge before you can retry. In reality these days, no one is actually failing and this is not an issue.

It's mostly because it USED to be very annoying to complete. When I started playing I remember having to ask some FC mates to help with it becuase DF parties were everywhere in terms of quality. Now it's literally a faceroll and feels like a punching bag.

it could've been fixed by letting people vote if they want to restart if the fight goes badly

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Originally Posted by Yuella

it could've been fixed by letting people vote if they want to restart if the fight goes badly

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That, or something like if everyone is dead at the same time it restarts. That way the group could just not respawn/res and get him back at the beginning. But again, this isnt an issue these days.

I dislike the fight because it's relatively long without any challenge. It was much more fun at release when it required teamwork and it was easy to get overwhelmed and die.
But nowadays it's just feels like punching bag with more HP. You can use cannons but don't have to anymore. There are no mechanics to watch out for. It's just slapping the boss' butt until it dies.
I could be a training dummy and I'd hardly notice a difference.

I like it. But this is exactly why it's stupid to just include everything in roulettes.
Most people will hate anything that isn't quick and easy to clear if they're only following a daily routine. This is the primary reason why MSQ dungeons have become so shallow.

Everything that isn't hardcore content and is multiplayer needs to be put in roulette otherwise they'll die and become bottlenecks.

And it wasn't that Steps of Fate was hard necessarily that they nerfed it. It was because it was hard AND a time waster. Since the only way for it to reset is if Vishap reaches the end, you gotta sit and wait for a run to end even if it's clear there's no way you are beating enrage. And that's obnoxious, nobody wants to waste their time in that way.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Everything that isn't hardcore content and is multiplayer needs to be put in roulette otherwise they'll die and become bottlenecks.

And it wasn't that Steps of Fate was hard necessarily that they nerfed it. It was because it was hard AND a time waster. Since the only way for it to reset is if Vishap reaches the end, you gotta sit and wait for a run to end even if it's clear there's no way you are beating enrage. And that's obnoxious, nobody wants to waste their time in that way.

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Disagree completely with the first sentence. XIV is a VERY ACTIVE game and it's not at all hard or that time consuming to actually gather your own party the old fashioned way to clear content.
People already do that for coil normal. This game needs to stop having everything designed specifically for very casuals who hate playing rpgs or hardcore who only care for raiding.

There already is a VAST amount of content for people who only do dungeons and trials as a daily chore. They wouldn't miss a thing. So tired of the excuses being made anytime someone dare questions design problems in XIV.

I still like Steps of Faith. I complain about it being nerfed all the time. It's another one of those nerfs that ultimately drove player and content quality down. After every nerfed instance, we never see instances of the nerfed type come back, because they don't want to risk outrage.

Pharos Sirius nerf = All Dungeons for the rest of time are facerolls and boring.

Steps of Faith nerf = Never make a trial quite like it ever again.


Literally, the original version wasn't that hard. If you did Coil before it came out and were geared up and took your raid team, you could faceroll it similar to what happens to it today, though you still wanted to optimize cannons on adds and use the first Dragon Killer.

But even without a static if someone just took charge and people listened to them on how to coordinate the cannons, DKs, Snares etc. You could kill it in one or two runs easy peasy. I remember taking matters into my own hands, because I had two characters I needed to get through it at the time it came out. I shouted in Mor Dhona, got my brother, and a couple of my friends. The rest were pugs. Coordinated everything and won 1/1 on both characters.

Rainesama still has a video of an original run of it on Youtube, and I watch it occasionally when I'm feeling nostalgic. If not to see most of the fight in a low res vid with some graphical jank, just to see old, forgotten skills like Brutal Swing.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

For me it's just one of those battles that shows up way too often in roulettes, even when there are no new ppl. It also doesn't help that the fight is simple and super fast but no one wants to follow instruction or do mechanics properly which makes it take much longer than it should. Tanks are always holding the adds off in lala land, while the dps ignore the boss until they are dead and no one wants to man the cannons. If you hold the mobs under the boss and have everyone focus on the boss while 1 healer and the off tanks use cannons to take out the adds and damage the boss you can have him down after 1 dragon killer. Quick and faceroll easy.

Steps, Mog and Tsukuyomi seem to be the worst offenders for trials, just like 1000 maws is notorious for popping for leveling. I know SE says they do not weigh the roulette toward any set of fights or dungeons, but there are battles and dungeons that either have never or only once or twice ever popped for roulette unless there was someone new to them while a small handful of others show up 90% of the time. I actually kept track once and after 1 full month after noticing a pattern over the course of months and steps, mog and tsukuyomi popped 24 of the 31 days for both my chars. So yeah, even with the law of random, the probability of that is low if they were not weighted somehow.

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The roulettes are weighted. maybe not deliberately or anything such but simply as a result of how the duty finder works..

if you take something like totorak for example. it's typically a dungeon that 98% of players queing the roulette meet the requirements for.
where something like doma castle. maybe only 20% of the people queing meet those requirements..

in a very loose way then you're 4 times more likely to get totorak in your roulette than doma castle..

obviously its a lot more complicated than that because of the amount of duties available in a rouleete andother variables such as levels of players in the queue. but the roulettes are heavily weighted to earlier / lower level content just by the nature of game design.

however it's weighted by the players in the queue and not an arbitary system by SE. so the theory is if you and 3 friends made a party andhit levelling roullette and you were all 80. then every dungeon should be an equal chance. but in reality if you're just queing solo the system is heavily weighted. if you get matched with level 25 healer you've got a 20-25% of getting totorak. depending if they did the side quest to get hallitatli.
but if the lowest player your matched with is 50. and assuming theyve done the msq to that point then the chance of getting totorak is 6.25%.

if you add the probablilites of players queuing being a certain level you d get a exponentially decreasing curve. where you might find the chances ofactually getting mt gulg in your levelling roulette might only be like 0.2% but the chance of getting totorak might be 10-12%.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The roulettes are weighted. maybe not deliberately or anything such but simply as a result of how the duty finder works..

if you take something like totorak for example. it's typically a dungeon that 98% of players queing the roulette meet the requirements for.
where something like doma castle. maybe only 20% of the people queing meet those requirements..

in a very loose way then you're 4 times more likely to get totorak in your roulette than doma castle..

obviously its a lot more complicated than that because of the amount of duties available in a rouleete andother variables such as levels of players in the queue. but the roulettes are heavily weighted to earlier / lower level content just by the nature of game design.

however it's weighted by the players in the queue and not an arbitary system by SE. so the theory is if you and 3 friends made a party andhit levelling roullette and you were all 80. then every dungeon should be an equal chance. but in reality if you're just queing solo the system is heavily weighted. if you get matched with level 25 healer you've got a 20-25% of getting totorak. depending if they did the side quest to get hallitatli.
but if the lowest player your matched with is 50. and assuming theyve done the msq to that point then the chance of getting totorak is 6.25%.

if you add the probablilites of players queuing being a certain level you d get a exponentially decreasing curve. where you might find the chances ofactually getting mt gulg in your levelling roulette might only be like 0.2% but the chance of getting totorak might be 10-12%.

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Well, level skips throw off that math a little, because they automatically set people past a lot of dungeons, so we're also getting a lot more queues for the Shadowbringers dungeons by people queuing directly for them.

Because of skips it's really common to get very low dungeons or very high dungeons and almost nothing in between.