Disturbing FC Behavior

So I've been in clans on other games, seen many rise and fall. Even though mmo clans are somewhat different the same problems still plague them. Today I will talk about the biggest problem I see in FCs.

FCs with pre-established friend groups.
1. Friend groups have a predisposition to show hostility to outsiders.

-At first people are nice when recruiting but, if you try to have a conversation that goes beyond the phrases "I need help" or "let's do dailies" the problems start. Quickly you find that they just wanted a lot of people in the guild. Not for socializing, just for the numbers.

2. Here is where the the passive aggression starts, if not out right aggression.

-So you try to conversate but unfortunately your attempts may include things like: why are so many races 90% human and 10% cat ears? Or what do you think would be cool for endwalker?

-Beyond this, going into the realm of idol chatting, or having an opinion about something. You may have heard it before, people saying ff14 players are nice till you disagree or think out loud at all.

-Friend groups by default have an us vs them mentality. You may say "that's not true me and my friends help people all the time" or "we aren't toxic". Think on this, there are FCs that try to absorb as many people as possible and once you are in they don't want to socialize. They view other players that aren't associated with their friend group as a burden or a problem. These burdensome new arrivals are then treated to passive aggressive comments to publicize their alienation from the group.

3. Everyone has seen this

-Imagine you are at a party, you start a conversation with some people. For the sake of argument its about cake. Everyone has a collective love of cake but, you think cake could be more diverse in its colors, or larger in size, or presentation. The response you get among other things is "ahh". What? What does that mean are you scared? Should we get you some help? Do you need some milk? Did your brain turn off?

-Things like this signal to the others if they have not already been avid when displaying their distain that:
-This guy is a weirdo
-We should not associate with this one
-He/She is causing problems we all must act like this person is crazy

4. Conclusion

-You can have a friend group its fine but, don't shun people you invited to the party. Why invite them at all unless you enjoy spreading as the kids say, "bad vibes".

-Stick to your groups and remember that if you want to invite people to your FC you all must be welcoming even after the welcoming process is done. Don't perpetuate the culture of fake positivity ff14 has become known for. Be open to new things, ideas, and people. I'll end with a quote from an anime you might know "If you are always looking down on everyone, you never see your own weaknesses".

Edit years later:
I wrote this post a long time ago, when my writing wasn't as refined. I obviously knew how cringe and absurd some parts of it were. At the time I was stressed and angry about a lot of things but, mainly how "friends" treated me. Some people agreed with the post and some people just said that everything was my fault. To those people that said I was the problem in a very harsh way. I would say, I bet you don't talk to yourself that way. If I believed it every time someone said that it was my fault I would be in a much worse place. This post bothered me and I wanted to delete it. Unfortunately, that is not an option. Some time after the horrible events of this post, fc hopping, and ultimately leaving the game. I returned, and found an fc that was full of friendly people and for the first time, all the way into shadow bringers, I had fun. After the expansion I left for a long time then returned again. I stay to myself now, and rarely engage with people for my own well being. I'm never going to look at this thread again or be bothered by it. I don't care what anyone writes in the thread I've been called worse just for trying out white mage.

My fc went through a recruiting phase once. We could never get people to talk or participate after they got in. It ended up being just those of us original to the fc doing things, so we kicked them and never tried again.


It goes both ways

I do not think that FFXIV has a reputation for "fake positivity." It sounds like maybe you have joined FCs that aren't the right fit for you. After the initial welcoming phase where people get to know each other it may turn out that you just aren't really a good match. That's on you, not the FC. Leave and try out a new one. An FC isn't required to "be open to new things, ideas, and people" if it doesn't mesh well with their already established vibe.

Sounds like my workplace.

But yes, I can see where you're coming from. While I haven't been an integral part of anyone else's FC except my RL friend's, which I'm still a part of, I can say I've seen that sort of behavior in more public spaces, where many people congregate to idle and chat, craft, or peruse the markets. I've been part of a treasure hunt group where I learned the leader was angry at me, yet no arguments were had between us, no disagreements, no hostilities--nothing. I was simply not part of that person's friend circle, and to this day, I'll never know what I did to make them so angry. They wouldn't talk to me. None of their friends would. It's very much like high school, but worse. It's worse because a lot of us didn't give a damn about high school, but we all care about FFXIV (to an extent). Some of us are more social than others.

At the end of the day, I feel like the only way to overcome it is to--if I may also quote something I enjoy, it's from a band I like--"take yourself to higher places."

The nature of humanity is that not everyone will get together. People need time to warm up.

I used to run a large top level guild in EQ2, and I always did find that personalities clash. Some people just were not suitable for the group and while we worked to make them welcome, it was better when they left.

Keep searching for your FC, and try to find a group of like minded people, you will find the fit is much better at that point. From this one quote below, it makes me think you need to search for a Ronso exclusive FC.

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Originally Posted by SeaFoam

So you try to conversate but unfortunately your attempts may include things like: why are so many races 90% human and 10% cat ears?

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I've always found the FFXIV community to be pretty difficult to engage with. To many, everything is a potential issue, a difference in opinion - even in regards to fictional characters - is the worst crime one can commit and there's an unhealthy obsession with trying to use the game itself as a platform for speaking about complicated issues. In my experience, it's far more common over on the North American servers compared to the European or Japanese servers which tend to be quieter.

I ended up settling for a two man FC which suits me just fine, though I do miss how much easier it was to organise group activities back when I played WoW. I've encountered a lot more in the way of broken promises, flaky individuals and a lack of commitment to one's goals even when it comes to casual content such as treasure maps.

I am not wanting to be "that person" but if you have nothing but problems in FC's, maybe the problem is you.

Not all FC's are the same, I have been in a few and never felt like an outsider in any of them. Do I "fit" in all of them, no, which is why we parted company. The one I am in currently, I certainly am not a founding member by any stretch of the imagination, but I think we have always been friendly and welcoming. There are people in the FC that do their own thing, or are not comfy around people, but they are just as welcome as anyone else, and everyone tries to help out in whatever way they can.

Maybe you joined one too large, or too small. you seriously need to determine what YOU are looking for, and go from there. but if everything always ends the same way, my thoughts are its not the FC....

Been lucky that I haven't seen this beyond the normal expectations.

Think it's fair human nature, even as fc OGs or leaders to have an unbalanced amount of attention on a small group over the rest. People you hang out with daily or do progression with.

That said every FC without exception has been great in terms of including others or helping out. This from 1.0 to now and across 4-5 servers. Even my fc now which is clearly a small group of friends include me, the loner, every chance they can.

That doesn't discount anything you said, I'm just very surprised

My problem is that I feel like I'm try to fight my way out of folding onto myself too hard and eventually end up losing, thus regressing back to invisibility status and ultimately vanishing from all social interactions--all the while being in a fc. Which sucks because I do my best to social and greet, maybe put up a joke or two but I just sink right back into being one with a wall, then feel like I don't fit even though FCs haven't done anything to make me feel excluded out of anything.

To quote Alisae to myself : "Why are you like this?"

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Originally Posted by SeaFoam

-Imagine you are at a party, you start a conversation with some people. For the sake of argument its about cake. Everyone has a collective love of cake but, you think cake could be more diverse in its colors, or larger in size, or presentation. The response you get among other things is "ahh". What? What does that mean are you scared? Should we get you some help? Do you need some milk? Did your brain turn off?

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This is pretty socially unacceptable behaviour in any setting. Methinks the problem is you.

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Originally Posted by SeaFoam

Don't perpetuate the culture of fake positivity ff14 has become known for.

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This is the first time I heard about this being a thing that FFXIV is known for, and I have been playing for several years.

Also all your fc related problems are things I encountered in every multiplayer game I have played. There are insular and meanspirited people everywhere. Those who find a good community right away are actually in the minority. Most people have to try a few times before they find a group that makes them feel accepted and happy. I actually ended up making my own fc because I couldn't find that group.

It’d be kinda weird if FCs didn’t have smaller groups of friends within them, especially the larger ones. This happens in any social situation you shove a bunch of people into- they break off into smaller groups and get to know each other.

If it’s an FC where you think you could get along with the people, then just stick around. Join conversations that are already in progress and get to know them a little better before you start getting out your spicier takes. Join people when they ask for help, or ask to join people if you notice they’re doing something. Being around and being consistent is really all it takes to become established in an FC. This is pretty much socializing 101.

Also, I’m just gonna put it out there that asking a bunch of cat/bunny/lizard people “so why are there just a bunch of boring humans with animal ears in this game” isn’t quite the conversation starter you think it is, lol.

I mean what you describe isnt really anything other than the usual guild/clan/FC clique who just invites people for more numbers/bodies for groups, it is definitely not a good idea to stay within these groups if you see they consistently ignore everyone else but their clique.

Pretty much the reason why I don't go for big FCs unless I own them. xD

I prefer a community where everyone interacts with each other (where my current FC is at) rather than a big one with tons of cliques. The majority of big ones that I've been in usually go something like this:

Me: Good morning!
Everyone else: *continues on with their conversations like I didn't even say anything*

and I dip out not long after.

Sounds to me like you're better off making your own FC or going for a small one that's just being formed so you're there from the start. However, like some of the other people above said, might wanna drop the ear comments & being the one person that drops convos into a negative (i.e. that cake analogy you gave where everyone is happy with the cake and ur like...well, I think it would be better like this. Take it from the Queen of Negativity (not as bad as I used to be but meh) here, it doesn't get you anywhere good.

It's the same widespread thing, not just in XIV but in about any game that promotes similar group associations.

If you're posting this because you're facing one or all of these issues at the present date, I'd suggest just to look for a different FC. It might need a few tries, but eventually you'll end up with one that you'll really enjoy and make great friends.

Usually the best tries are onto FCs that are smaller in numbers, but with active people.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

This is pretty socially unacceptable behaviour in any setting. Methinks the problem is you.

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This kinda proves the "ffxiv players can't handle slight disagreements" point.

I did not and will not read anything beyond the main post here because as someone who suffers from occasionally severe social anxiety I see where they're coming from and my blood would boil if I saw any hostility or passive aggressive replies to them here.

To the topic creator, it took me 7 years to finally join a free company that does its best to push everyone to socialize and play together. The cliques are real, just like anywhere with more than like 10 people.

Everyone has their own tightly closed circles and at best someone who failed to form their own circle by the time they were done with college are basically stuck being the outsider no matter who they assume they became friends with. People who have their own love to talk as if they understand but they really don't. And their flowery speeches just add painful salt to the injury.
And with those circles comes mob mentality. Which is just plain scary and makes you hate yourself for not sharing the same opinions. And before long you stop believing anything you have to say holds any value and everything feels completely futile.
You then try again with a different group and the cycle repeats.

At least as far as FFXIV goes there are some free companies, very few of them, that encourage everyone to talk, play events together and help each other. The clique is still there of course, and just because the higher ranks are nice and helpful doesn't mean they want to be your friends. But hey they don't let toxicity or passive aggressiveness in the chat at least.
So keep looking.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

This kinda proves the "ffxiv players can't handle slight disagreements" point.

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Eh. It's up to you to interpret social conventions that way.

Personally, I've found FCs in FFXIV across the NA data centers to either be large and noisome or small and silent. Quite often, I've started a new character, and along the levels 15-20 I get invited to an FC. I always play characters I start with regularity, and more often than not, unless it's one of the server spanning 500ish people FCs, then it's dead silent all of the time.

As for the FCs that I'm actually in now, they vary, but I would agree that they are all insular to some degree, including the one that I, "lead."

One is lead by a friend of mine from Sweden, and it includes people from FFXI and FFXIah who he thinks are kinda cool, who have known each other for years. Occasionally these people invite their spouses, lovers, or close friends in as well. Conversation is regular, but it's always the same people. We do a lot of conversing through a Linkshell instead, since not everyone wants to be in that FC.

Another is the one my Sargatanas character is in. I'm not on the character as much anymore, but I try to lend them a hand if they ever need me. They're mostly chill, but we've got different perspectives on social issues, acceptable joking criteria, and some other things. There's also a messy past issue with my ex, and her hostility towards them, that is partially transferred onto me. I'll never know how much that affects this FC's view of me, but I know that it does on some level. They associate me with her, in spite of her being the original reason I wasn't allowed in their FC. I know they run linkshells that they talk to one another in outside of FC chat, that I am not privy to, and I don't feel the need to be, but I do know that conversations happen that I am not present for, and obviously, they'd rather keep it that way. It kinda reminds me of, "Officer Pearls" from back in FFXI, heh, an entirely separate Linkpearl just for Officer discussions. Somehow, though, even with that in play sometimes it's hard for me to tell when they're bullshitting one another or seriously having issues with like event timings and things. So it doesn't really feel very cliquey.

Then there's my FC, which I'd love to get off the ground properly, get a ground doing things together, but it's an old FC and essentially it's a walking corpse. Recently we've recruited some people, but play times don't overlap very well, so more or less, it's just an association for FC buffs that I stuck to and inherited a house from. It's very loose, and I just promote anyone who's been on for at least 3 weeks consistently to a rank with almost full privs. It's quiet.


And I have been kicked out of one FC or maybe I left after getting kicked out of the raid group? It's been too long, but basically, I was going to Japan back in 2016 and had been sick the weeks before, and had missed raid like 3 or so times. I told them why, and the lead got the impression that I just didn't want to raid with them anymore, because they were silly and I was serious. But that was literally the most fun I've had raiding in this game, even if we never cleared 4th fight in Savages (I literally haven't laughed as hard raiding since, though Sarg FC got close a few times). But yeah, the lead kicked me out of the raid group on the night I arrived in Japan. That FC had been a blast, and it was mostly centered around the raid groups. One raid group got fed up with having to kowtow to event schedule, and left to form their own FC. I put my alt with them, and the raid lead in my own group kind of interpreted it as me wanting a better group.

Anyway, I guess I wrote all this to say, it's not really about how you perceive the group or what you expect for the group, it's how the group perceives you that determines how you will be received. If you want to be in an FC and have the FC embrace you, then sometimes you have to make concessions and put them ahead of yourself. And it takes time to really bond and grow close to people.

I generally prefer to play alone. but depending on mutual interests I will add people or join linkshells. Even there, unless it is curated people get very hostile over differing opinions - and I am referring to opinions on different aspects of the game (not RL opinions). I won't join a clan or guild in any game unless I have known and played with somebody in it before. I won't go looking for one, nor will I join a random invite one. This community - in general - does irritate me quite a bit, so that might also be a problem. :p

For the OP, I think you might have just read the room wrong. It's pretty common for guilds or clans to have pre-established friend groups, but with this game you are kind of walking on eggshells when you chat. It's a community problem most of all, in my opinion. Heck, you don't even have to chat, just playing the game in a different way than someone else, may get you "reported".

I never had any issues with FCs. It took me awhile to find one that I fit in but they were never what you described except that some of them always stayed in their clicks of friends.

It can easy go both ways... most do not realize it can actually take quite the effort to actually have a FC.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

This kinda proves the "ffxiv players can't handle slight disagreements" point.

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I dunno man, if I was at a party and some dude started randomly blathering on about how the cake just isn't up to his high standards I'd be pretty weirded out.

It can be difficult to find an FC that you meld with and feel you fit in. At the same time, it isn't all up to the people already established in the FC to make that happen. It's a two-way street. For example, the FC I am in - we never, ever do recruitment. People from our FC have been invited because they met someone in the FC and had fun, didn't have an FC and were asked if they'd like to join. Most though who join are friends of friends, family, etc. Sometimes we are super chatty. Other times there isn't a lot being said. It all just depends on what everyone is doing, moods, etc.

However, I have noticed a pattern of people who join our FC and end up leaving - they hardly ever interact with us. We'll say hello when they log in and they may respond but often don't at all. When people are going to run something and ask in the FC if anyone wants to join in (expert, raids, maps, extremes, etc) the people that joined but end up leaving never join in, even when we specifically ask them by name if they'd like to join.

And it's fine if people want to join the FC and keep to themselves. We have those too. We still say hi and talk with them when they do speak. We'll run things with them if they want to join in or need help. I've just noticed the pattern of the few people who do join and then leave, never actually engage with us even when we try to engage with them.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

This is pretty socially unacceptable behaviour in any setting. Methinks the problem is you.

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No it is more like you have dictorial mindset .if you can't handle disagreements then don't invite people to fc

This is normal in pretty much every MMO though: enter a medium-big sized guild and it will already have a clique that will only interact with others by saying "Hi, welcome back" or inside events.
There's also a roughly 85% chance that there will be an "UwU hi guysss!" "girl" that is often the center of attention and once every two days will have a new issue that makes her very sad.

Honestly, some of the chillest people I've met in MMOs are from small guilds or randoms in map/instances. Heck, I met my wife through a super small guild, we were friends for months, I thought she was a dude until the guild finally decided to use Discord.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It goes both ways

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This.
People will join an FC, say nothing and then leave after some time or stop logging entirely. People won't always click, that's just how things are.

Often people who don't mesh were "invited to the party" because nobody fully realized the extent to which they're incapable of holding normal conversations without turning into passive-aggressive, condescending, neurotic, or permanently-negative messes.

Ultimately, there's only ever one common factor in all the failed interpersonal relationships in your life. Refuse to acknowledge that at your own peril.

E: Wait, 2021? Who even resurrected this. Why have you tricked me.

Honestly when i get my bestie in id rather just have a fc for the two of us, just because how people react if your not in their little box but lets be honest that's kinda the point in fcs and groups to segrate people based on who and what they enjoy.

Lets face it any games guild/freecompany or group is basically how it is in highschool you got the jocks all in one spot, the preppy kids in another, the stoners here, the geeks here the nerds here.. and then you got the goths at this table and the table I'm in the emos lets face it. Humans will never get along with outsiders from their own personal taste and personality.



People and game makers assume that they can enforce interactions between 2 very different types but that isn't going to happen ever period its a naive hope people wish for that will never happen. Two different fish in a small tank will never get along enforcing this typically ends with one if not both fish dead

Going to a party and complaining about the cake sure is a choice.

Ever heard about the phrase "keeping a respectful distance"?

I've been playing the game for nearly 10 years now, and I have made 0 in game friend, and have been just staying in my own solo FC. I do have people I keep in contact, talk to, play with via Linkshell or Discord, some would go back as far as 5 to 8 years. Ironically, from what I've seen, my interaction with these "non-friends" people most of the time are a lot of amicable then the people who calling each others friends and/or in the same FC. I believe the reason we are able to maintain such long and healthy relationship is because ... we never tried to befriend one another, neither we pretend we are friends.


I think in the social media era had set a certain expectation about relationship that - as someone who grew up before social media is a thing - think it's not realistic. Circle and Niche have existed long before social media or MMO, but regardless of the setting, it often take a long time and lots of effort to get into one or build one - organically. These days though, I find a lot of people just ... don't have the patient for that, and believe in this facade that we can always make friends! So they either trying to hard to be part of something else, or misjudge the actual distance of the relationship. That can lead to bringing up premature topics, having weird expectations ...etc... Often what people call drama, I think it's just the facade crumbled.

At least, that's what my observation tell me from my own experience. Before coming FF14, I played WoW for about 3-4 years during which I was in a 3 different guilds, from large to small, as well as the first 2 years of FF14 I also joint other various FC before becoming a solo FC player. And you know ... after 8 years I felt this is the most healthy way to maintain an MMO relationships.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Ever heard about the phrase "keeping a respectful distance"?

I've been playing the game for nearly 10 years now, and I have made 0 in game friend, and have been just staying in my own solo FC. I do have people I keep in contact, talk to, play with via Linkshell or Discord, some would go back as far as 5 to 8 years. Ironically, from what I've seen, my interaction with these "non-friends" people most of the time are a lot of amicable then the people who calling each others friends and/or in the same FC. I believe the reason we are able to maintain such long and healthy relationship is because ... we never tried to befriend one another, neither we pretend we are friends.


I think in the social media era had set a certain expectation about relationship that - as someone who grew up before social media is a thing - think it's not realistic. Circle and Niche have existed long before social media or MMO, but regardless of the setting, it often take a long time and lots of effort to get into one or build one - organically. These days though, I find a lot of people just ... don't have the patient for that, and believe in this facade that we can always make friends! So they either trying to hard to be part of something else, or misjudge the actual distance of the relationship. That can lead to bringing up premature topics, having weird expectations ...etc... Often what people call drama, I think it's just the facade crumbled.

At least, that's what my observation tell me from my own experience. Before coming FF14, I played WoW for about 3-4 years during which I was in a 3 different guilds, from large to small, as well as the first 2 years of FF14 I also joint other various FC before becoming a solo FC player. And you know ... after 8 years I felt this is the most healthy way to maintain an MMO relationships.

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sounds like your an oldman maybe you should get off the internet before u break your back

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Originally Posted by Daddyslittlevampire

sounds like your an oldman maybe you should get off the internet before u break your back

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Why should this old man leave when he's having so much fun? After all he's not the one complaining. Plus he also often get to watch free drama show from the young people. The internet is a great place for him all thing considered. :D

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Why should this old man leave when he's having so much fun? After all he's not the one complaining. Plus he also often get to watch free drama show from the young people. The internet is a great place for him all thing considered. :D

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And the person you're responding to CREATES drama from NOTHING! Sit back and watch the fireworks.

Signed, a fellow old man.

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

And the person you're responding to CREATES drama from NOTHING! Sit back and watch the fireworks.

Signed, a fellow old man.

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I don't create drama I just state what I wish for and want for the game and share my opinions that's all damn you boomers need to get in the grave already

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Originally Posted by Daddyslittlevampire

I don't create drama I just state what I wish for and want for the game and share my opinions that's all damn you boomers need to get in the grave already

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...44/770/e9d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...44/770/e9d.jpg

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https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4P...add1eb17aa4c8f listen to this aned get the stick out of your ass plus just so u know its not rlly bait when u make a lie :) listen some great music and take that boomer stick out of your ass okay?

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Originally Posted by Daddyslittlevampire

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4P...add1eb17aa4c8f listen to this aned get the stick out of your ass plus just so u know its not rlly bait when u make a lie :) listen some great music and take that boomer stick out of your ass okay?

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-tos-is-wrong

I'm getting bored now so my next reply was going to be me pretending I read what you said and just posted a gif of fireworks and saying told you so. Just saving myself the time for the very obvious end result.

Like you say, I've been around a LOT longer so you're quite predictable.

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-tos-is-wrong

I'm getting bored now so my next reply was going to be me pretending I read what you said and just posted a gif of fireworks and saying told you so. Just saving myself the time for the very obvious end result.

Like you say, I've been around a LOT longer so you're quite predictable.

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please deaths daughter cant be predicted by a mere human, you had no idea id post a playlist,, beside I'm still right its you old people making the rules and stuff that are wrong. eh w/e ur not worth my energy right now I got to buy a f ew more outfits irl