Can we get more rules on party finder

Party finder is a mess. It needs the GM to police to fix the most glaring problems. Some of these is selling content need to be removed 100%. I don't care even if they can prove its with Gil and not real world money. These need to be removed and should never be allowed. This should also include crafting leveling kits.

Another fix is absolutely no repeat post by different players. I dunno why this could accepted.

Lastly no incorrectly listed category. No posting for duty roulette level if you're not doing duty roulette leveling just because it shows on the top of the list. Minor incorrectness like hard mode/ normal/ savage/ex shouldn't be punishment unless found to be a repeat offender, just a warning.

Also would like a exclude filter to exclude rather than all or one category. This UI change would be much better. This could still be used to exclude all but one to help narrow for a single active or only exclude one or a few categories.

Yes! Please ban run sellers!

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Originally Posted by MPK

Yes! Please ban run sellers!

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Those are the main offenders. I didnt see your similar post on this but I agree they should be removed at least from party finder. Maybe more if they try and skirt the rules. Basically everyone understands its mostly just RTM without saying it is ingame.

If you're not paying for runs, and you're not selling runs. Then how does gear, or a mount, or an achievement / title have any bearing or degradation on your personal quality of gameplay?

The funny thing is people assume banning the advertisements in PF will even do a damn thing to protect their precious titles and what not, when people will still just use discord or what have you and it will still happen, its the modern era, ain't nothing no one can do to stop the selling of content.

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

The funny thing is people assume banning the advertisements in PF will even do a damn thing to protect their precious titles and what not, when people will still just use discord or what have you and it will still happen, its the modern era, ain't nothing no one can do to stop the selling of content.

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Point is people want it out of PF,.

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Originally Posted by Nafreyu

If you're not paying for runs, and you're not selling runs. Then how does gear, or a mount, or an achievement / title have any bearing or degradation on your personal quality of gameplay?

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It undermines the achievement and difficulties that people went through if they're able to get the selfsame rewards with absolutely no effort at all. Not to mention if done in any serious gravity then it creates a negative stigma around those that have completed the content. People just generalize everyone in the same bubble, discounting any effort or struggles they went through on the specific fight. So yes, it has a degradation factor, especially if you show it off!

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Originally Posted by MPK

Yes! Please ban run sellers!

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I can't believe you actually got me to agree with you on something

there may be redemption for you yet, MPK

All jokes aside, the only thing I want off the PF are RMT activities. The rest can stay in my opinion. RMT is the only thing that actively damages the game in my eyes and it doesn't help they always use the level 50/60/70 roulettes just to be at the top, drowning out the general tab in a swathe of unusable garbage.

The party finder is always full of run selling junk it really dampers my experience in the game when I open party finder to see if there is something I want to join when I have to scroll past 10+ listings selling runs before I see any genuine listings.

GM's should just join the Discords using fake characters, and then pay the fee... after that when it goes live and them teams take control... wait... as soon as they enter ban every single one for a lifetime, and eg. issue 3 days suspensions to others who has taken use of this service, and that is easy to see, to just locate IP and where they log in from.

With that strip all titles and gear, and strip the ability to ever do savage and ultimates for 365 days.

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

The funny thing is people assume banning the advertisements in PF will even do a damn thing to protect their precious titles and what not, when people will still just use discord or what have you and it will still happen, its the modern era, ain't nothing no one can do to stop the selling of content.

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It's not about making the titles/mounts/weapons/etc more meaningful or sacred, it's about removing the 5 to 10 spam entries that always sit at the top of DF whenever you open it. Or at least forcing them to stop hijacking the duty roulette section of the PF and put it in the other section so it's out of the way.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

It's not about making the titles/mounts/weapons/etc more meaningful or sacred, it's about removing the 5 to 10 spam entries that always sit at the top of DF whenever you open it. Or at least forcing them to stop hijacking the duty roulette section of the PF and put it in the other section so it's out of the way.

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This but I wouldn't have a single tear if they perma ban these players. Selling content in any form or shape shouldn't be allowed on the official side of SE.

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Originally Posted by Nafreyu

If you're not paying for runs, and you're not selling runs. Then how does gear, or a mount, or an achievement / title have any bearing or degradation on your personal quality of gameplay?

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This is a real simplification of the argument.

Let's take a look at FFXI as being a prime example of what can happen when this is the typical view of merc culture in an mmo. SE let the merc culture do their thing in ffxi and in the past 10 years the game has become so overrun with mercs that getting anything done on your own is nearly impossible. It also created a still thriving and out of control RMT situation due to the fact the people have to pay hundreds of thousands up to millions of gil to get wins or get most forms of content complete. The mercs have a hold over all the high level content and the rmt have overrun the leveling zones and the lower level content that is still needed for relics, mythics and empyrean gear because it is so easy for them to automate it and advertise freely with no consequence. They both also hold hostage any sellable drops since they have such a tight hold on the content.

The game still has an ok sized population but every other day you hear of ppl leaving the game or new ppl starting and then just giving up once they hit the level cap because the only way to do anything is to buy the content wins. FFXI is an amazing game, even still, but SE has just let things get so out of control that it's not even worth the time for a lot of people.

So over a period of time this can have long standing and devastating effects on a game. So how can it impact the average player? Well it can have an immense impact on both a game and its player base if left unchecked. Simply shrugging it off as having no consequence is terribly naïve at best and downright dangerous for a game at the worst.

You know u can always just scroll past it instead of thinking a GM should solve your problems for you.

I don't raid or participate in many RP events, so when I see em in pf I view em as a waste of my time, but I don't think they should be taken down cause I know others enjoy them, so I just scroll down to the stuff that interests me or close pf, instead of asking for them to be cancelled.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Yes! Please ban run sellers!

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what's funny about this is that Asmongold was a run seller in WoW (an aboveboard, gold-only run seller, note) and has said as much in his videos

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

what's funny about this is that Asmongold was a run seller in WoW (an aboveboard, gold-only run seller, note) and has said as much in his videos

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Wait, what?
I only loosely follow what happens with WoW news, so forgive me if I'm late to the party but... is this real?
I thought Asmongold was supposed to be a pretty respectable player.

Also, you say they were an "aboveboard" run seller.
Can you unpack that for me? Like, did ActiBlizz know about them? Or was it just an open secret in the community?

Why? They aren't hurting anything. Just scroll past them. If people want to pay (gil) to get carried through things why should SE try to stop them?

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Wait, what?
I only loosely follow what happens with WoW news, so forgive me if I'm late to the party but... is this real?
I thought Asmongold was supposed to be a pretty respectable player.

Also, you say they were an "aboveboard" run seller.
Can you unpack that for me? Like, did ActiBlizz know about them? Or was it just an open secret in the community?

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different games, different rules, different communities. in WoW run selling for in-game items is pretty much accepted by both players and devs. Asmongold's guild, like 95% of raiding guilds, sold runs for gold (in-game currency) because of how the gearing works in that game. he mentioned it in his video talking about the guy who accidentally streamed himself trying to pull one over on a run buyer.

the reason for my comment is that MPK repeatedly talks about wanting to have Asmongold join XIV, so the irony was palpable

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Why? They aren't hurting anything. Just scroll past them. If people want to pay (gil) to get carried through things why should SE try to stop them?

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Almost all run selling ads on PF end with a Discord handle for communication. They don't want to talk in tells, they want to talk on a 3rd party app outside of the game, where SE can't log their chat. Why could that be? It's because they want real money.

The ads that respond to tells and don't demand to chat about it in Discord are probably legit -- and while I don't have any issues with basic run selling for gil, I am suspicious of where large amounts of gil to buy runs may be coming from (is the gil to pay for runs bought with real money -- thus funding all those flying and tunneling bots that plague the place?)

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

different games, different rules, different communities. in WoW run selling for in-game items is pretty much accepted by both players and devs. Asmongold's guild, like 95% of raiding guilds, sold runs for gold (in-game currency) because of how the gearing works in that game. he mentioned it in his video talking about the guy who accidentally streamed himself trying to pull one over on a run buyer.

the reason for my comment is that MPK repeatedly talks about wanting to have Asmongold join XIV, so the irony was palpable

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I understand.
Thank you for the answer : )

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It undermines the achievement and difficulties that people went through if they're able to get the selfsame rewards with absolutely no effort at all. Not to mention if done in any serious gravity then it creates a negative stigma around those that have completed the content. People just generalize everyone in the same bubble, discounting any effort or struggles they went through on the specific fight. So yes, it has a degradation factor, especially if you show it off!

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But someone has gone to the effort for that player to get those things. It's not like they paid SE $100 and SE handed them a completed achievement. There was some player, or group of players, that still put in the effort.

I know the effort I put into getting something. That's enough for me. I'm not doing it in an attempt to impress others. That someone else got another player to carry them doesn't take away from what I personally did.

If you're upset because you like to show off and be a special snowflake, and feel like less of one when others have what you have?

Good.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But someone has gone to the effort for that player to get those things. It's not like they paid SE $100 and SE handed them a completed achievement. There was some player, or group of players, that still put in the effort.

I know the effort I put into getting something. That's enough for me. I'm not doing it in an attempt to impress others. That someone else got another player to carry them doesn't take away from what I personally did.

If you're upset because you like to show off and be a special snowflake, and feel like less of one when others have what you have?

Good.

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If you need someone else to log into your account for you to get something, you shouldn’t have it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're upset because you like to show off and be a special snowflake, and feel like less of one when others have what you have?

Good.

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Same reason people don't like mentors, people with burger king crowns are usually anything but someone you should ask advice from because a lot of people become mentors just to get a crown next to their head while not actually being that competent themselves.

Having terrible players who paid for their clear diminishes from the good ones that didn't pay for it, and having an Ultimate title just becomes another meme for people to call you incompetent and make fun of.

Sounds like “I struggled so everyone should too!” Rant.

Man, I could’ve sworn I stopped playing WoW

Probably a safe assumption that the people in here saying ignore it or that's its not hurting anyone.. is probably the people who have bought a title or something or possible the ones selling the runs.

I do agree with this because the "duty roulette" title is a cesspool in PF since they go to the top in the all category, and 99.99% of the time it has nothing to do with roulette.

If you are mislabeling content in PF, you griefing people and that should be be a report action so people will stop doing it, get a strike, ban or whatever.

It's almost like when people lied about not clearing a savage in a 2-chest party that was labeled that way, that they decided to finally implement a chest check for each time someone went in/out of the duty. To ensure that everyone was clear of the chest status of the duty, so there were no surprises after a clear.

I do feel this is an area that really needs to get checked, at least most RP listings use 'none', but there a few that like to troll the listing along with run sellers and the like.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Probably a safe assumption that the people in here saying ignore it or that's its not hurting anyone.. is probably the people who have bought a title or something or possible the ones selling the runs.

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Wouldn't be too sure on that assumption.
A lot of players just don't care (myself included).
Why should it bother me what other players do to get their content clears?
I don't really see why anyone having a specific title or mount or achievement affects anyone other than that person.
For perspective, I'm a mostly casual player that maybe does an extreme trial now and then but doesn't care much for achievements / titles.
I do collect mounts usually on the last expac's unsync trials, but wouldn't bother paying a party to get me through content I can't clear - doesn't mean I think ill of players that do that, though.

I agree that cluttering the 'duty roulette' section of PF isn't okay, and PF recruitments should use the appropriate content tag. But beyond that, I don't see anything wrong with it as long as its ingame currency for ingame services. (if it involves RMT, that should be banned of course)

You'd think YoshiP would capitalize on buyers of content who tend to want the mounts, weapons, or glam and cut the middle men out and just sell the ultimate weapon in the mogstation after a few years, lol. But alas you know there are absolutely people among your community who will buy almost everything from the mogstation, or spend money like they were drunk on let's pick a new race potions. So think about that.

Granted you'll find a few that will show off the title but the "legend btw" meme when they die is a fun factor too. If anything you know they won't be going into clear parties and the like, so it doesn't affect most people. But I can imagine if you knew someone in your community or friendship circle that bought a clear that might muddy the water on your perception of them, and so you would care. It goes both ways.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Probably a safe assumption that the people in here saying ignore it or that's its not hurting anyone.. is probably the people who have bought a title or something or possible the ones selling the runs.

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I don't think you're wrong, though there's also what I call 'passive collaborators' to consider. Individuals who claim that cheating doesn't affect them, be it due to apathy or something else.

On my end, I loathe paid clears because it means that there are less people creating legitimate groups and raid communities. I'd love to engage in high end raiding but I've had terrible luck finding other players to do it with consistently who match my schedule and goals.

Less people actively trying to clear a raid also means the development team have less incentive to develop as much PvE content as they might do if there was more demand for it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I don't think you're wrong, though there's also what I call 'passive collaborators' to consider. Individuals who claim that cheating doesn't affect them, be it due to apathy or something else.

On my end, I loathe paid clears because it means that there are less people creating legitimate groups and raid communities. I'd love to engage in high end raiding but I've had terrible luck finding other players to do it with consistently who match my schedule and goals.

Less people actively trying to clear a raid also means the development team have less incentive to develop as much PvE content as they might do if there was more demand for it.

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The people paying for clears aren't the same people that would make parties to try and get a clear. These people are only doing it because it requires little to no work on their part. If people want to be lazy let them be lazy

The PF is a feature for making parties to clear content. That includes selling runs. Also there is nothing in the ToS against it as long as it's not real money involved. The only thing that shouldn't be in the PF are RP Advertisements.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But someone has gone to the effort for that player to get those things. It's not like they paid SE $100 and SE handed them a completed achievement. There was some player, or group of players, that still put in the effort.

I know the effort I put into getting something. That's enough for me. I'm not doing it in an attempt to impress others. That someone else got another player to carry them doesn't take away from what I personally did.

If you're upset because you like to show off and be a special snowflake, and feel like less of one when others have what you have?

Good.

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I'm speaking as an external party as to why people would be annoyed by it, and rightfully so. Do I care to show off? no. I barely even do combat in this game, barring Bozja, Relics, PotD, and the one-off raid tier.

If you don't care for the recognition of achievement that is fine, neither do I, but don't throw around derogatory terms to someone having a different viewpoint than yourself. It makes your point no more valid, and in fact, makes you abrasive if anything, and contributes nothing worthwhile to discuss, so well done!

I don't even want to know what form of mental gymnastic you had to conjure to try and rationalize my comment down to me trying to feel special, or a snowflake. it undermines the achievement and the value of it therein, why should someone have something they themselves did not rightly earn, complete, or even participate in? Do you plan to tell me this isn't considered undermining, especially if it leads to a poor reflection of those that have legitimately completed the content? LOL

It's amazing the lengths that people will go to in order to try and rationalize some things.

EDIT: The effort of a person only matters if it is the person to whom the character belongs. Someone else completing the raid tier on someone else's behalf still undermines that content for the very reasons people provided to you. Don't even get me started on the paying Square example. Those may as well have been 1 in the same thing as it leads to the exact same result; the person of whom the character belongs to not completing the content themselves yet getting the reward.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

The PF is a feature for making parties to clear content. That includes selling runs. Also there is nothing in the ToS against it as long as it's not real money involved. The only thing that shouldn't be in the PF are RP Advertisements.

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But real money is involved and everyone knows it. Plus they abuse category and topically double list during prime time. They are no reason content selling shouldn't be handled from SE only, through jump potions. To allow non- official use is rip for abuse in many ways, not just RMT.