So I never really got into Heavensward or Stormblood until AFTER Shadowbringers was out. As a result, I never knew a lot of the skills healers had prior to the Great Homogenizing that was Shadowbringers.
Since I'm trying to put together something regarding healing that involves the old skills, though, I need to be able to read through all of the old skills and how they worked. Yet I can't seem to find spell lists that are before 5.0, unless they're explicitly 1.0 (which does me no good).
If anyone knows where I can find a list, or just happens to remember themselves, can you share with me? I need a complete picture for all three jobs.
What healer skills were removed/changed with Shadowbringers?
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02-21-2021, 07:01 PMhythrainWhat healer skills were removed/changed with Shadowbringers?
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02-21-2021, 08:22 PMAutumnsHollow
This is from ARR to now in random order that I remembered:
White mage - stoneskin, mass stoneskin, shroud of saints, protect gave defense and magic defense due to trait, virus, eye for an eye, aero, aero 3, blizzard 2, thunder, damage fluid aura, cleric stance, plenary indulgence was very different and useless, kinda like an awful stacking version of horoscope, fluid aura was a damage off global cooldown, bension got changed a little I forget how, stone inflicted heavy, break
Astro - disable, virus, eye for an eye, lumunios aether, time dilation, all cards had different effects: spear reduced timers on cooldowns, balance was damage up, arrow reduced GCD, ewer restored MP, spire restored TP, bole gave flat mitigation, lady was an ogcd heal, lord was an ogcd attack, royal road effects, sleeve draw, gave you a random card in draw, spread, minor arcane slots, and a random royal road, aero, blizlzard 2, cleric stance, attacks used to be nerfed and mp costs were reduced under light speed, malefic used to be longer cast, celestial opposition was used to increase all buffs you cast on yourself and applied on others duration, this includes food buff, lucid dreaming, lightspeed, regen durations, etc, protect was physical only, collective unconcious only gave regen or mitigation depending on sect, break,
Scholar - shadowflare, bio, miasma, bio 2, aero, eye for an eye, thunder, blizzard 2, bane, selene haste, selene silence, selene esuna, another selene skill that got changed to esuna because it was useless, cleric stance, lustrate was percentage based, protect was physical only, super virus, break
I'll edit my post if I remember anything else. -
02-21-2021, 08:30 PMRecon1o6
I can confirm Astro and have a good shot at whm and sch. Something to bare in mind is SE homogenised a bit in 4.0 and doubled down in 5.0 when nobody wanted or needed that
Also SE removed the ability to have lower level versions of spells on your hotbar. So astro in hw for example had combust 2 and 1 separate as opposed to an upgrade as now
Ast lost Celestial opposition (stun+buff extender) Time dilation (extend buffs)
The arrow, spear, spire, ewer and bole with spread and royal road. Lord of crowns and lady of crowns (speed buff, crit buff, tp regen, mp regen, defence buff, hold a card, sac a card to buff hte next, a 300pot attack and a 500 pot heal)
Sect buffs
Exalted detriment (a faster esuna)
In the transition from 3.0 to 4.0 ast lost
Disable (functioned like reprisal)
Luminiferous aether (better lucid)
Stella (second attack!)
Whm lost most of its abilities in sb. 3.0-4.0 it lost
Cleric stance
divine seal (returned now as temperance)
shroud of saints (turned into lucid)
Stone skin 1, Stoneskin 2 (provided shield, like divine benison)
Eye for an eye (Mitigation for the tanks too stupid to use mitigation)
In 4.0-5.0 it lost
Aero 3 (aoe dot, stackable with aero 2)
Protect (and its shell upgrade)
fluid aura (its useless now)
Sch, I'm afraid i don't remember which ones were lost in the sb expansion
Miasma 1 and 2 (dots)
Shadowflare (aoe dot and slow)
Bane (spread dots and do damage)
SELENE (a whole other fairy! with 4 actions)
leeches (esuna)
Pet controls
Rouse (pet buff)
Silent dusk (a silence interrupt)
I think there's more for sch and whm but this is just off the top of my head. Needless to say it just goes to show that SE likes removing things and booting stuff up X many levels in order to pad out a job -
02-21-2021, 09:05 PMAbsurdity
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...530_075149.png
Some of them aren't accurate anymore due to job reworks or skills being added back in, but it should still be accurate for healers.
It also doesn't take into account abilities that had their effects changed like Eos' Embrace nerfs or changes to AST's cards and Celestial Opposition. -
02-21-2021, 09:25 PMJirahcomplained how much they destroyed MCH didnt know SCH lost so much RIPQuote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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02-21-2021, 09:52 PMAbsurdityI guess SCH technically got Rouse back in the form of Seraph and the 1st skill was to heal your fairy, which you don't need to do anymore. They did however lose Miasma 1 & 2, Shadowflare and every Selene skill with not much to replace them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
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02-21-2021, 11:06 PMSpiralMask
And bane. So dots on group pulls suuuuuck
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02-22-2021, 02:06 AMRecon1o6
im surprised that chart doesnt list Drk losses as the dark symbol
because its turned into marauder -
02-22-2021, 02:14 AMAbsurdityProbably because nobody actually knew at the time that it would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon1o6
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02-22-2021, 02:52 AMhythrainThank you. This gives me a much better sense of how the jobs were defined. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon1o6
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02-22-2021, 04:12 AMEsmoire
To their credit, I do appreciate that cross role actions like Largesse were taken out. This was essentially a "I need my heals to be more powerful" button, which every healer got this expansion with a unique flavour. Even if it is kind of samey that they all get it at the same time, and even if the execution wasn't perfect (like Seraph being crippled by awful pet AI), it is a nice way to make them more different. While something like a resurrection spell has less wiggle room, it would be cool if stuff like Lucid Dreaming has more exciting alternatives for each job that aren't a formality you press every minute.
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02-22-2021, 06:31 PMSaefinn
I think a better representation is for 4.0 and 5.0 as stated the changes started in 4.0 and were doubled down in 5.0.
As I was a SCH, I'll give a bit more detail on theirs:
Eye for an Eye was a SCH only skill that became cross-class and is now completely gone. This was a defensive buff that could be spread with Deployment Tactics. The way this worked was that it'd have a 20% chance to lower the enemy's attacks by 10% when hit.
Shadowflare - this was shared with SMN this was a ground AoE DoT
Miasma II - this was replaced by Art of War, it was a DoT rather than burst damage
Miasma - This was a DoT
Bio -> Bio II - It used to be that Bio and Bio II were separate skills and would stack.
Selene's abilities, which include: Silent Dusk (A Silence skill), Fey Wind (an AoE haste) and an AoE Esuna called Fey Caress.
Once upon a time faeries also used to do a damage mitigation spell (back in 2.0 and 3.0)
Leeches was replaced by making Esuna a cross class ability. It made no sense, especially as they tied lore to Leeches in the SCH story and you had to use it and there was literally no benefit to removing it. It was just flavour.
Rouse -> This was a faerie buff. As somebody mentioned Seraph technically does this, so in effect, they repackaged an existing skill.
Both Miasma spells applied "disease", which would reduce the amount of healing an enemy could take and would slow their movement speed, it made Miasma II good for big pulls.
Virus - This was a cross class skill for healers but SCH got a version called "Supervirus". Virus would reduce a target's Strength and Dexterity by 15% and Supervirus would include Intelligence and Mind. This was repurposed as "Addle" and given to magic DPS but only affects Intelligence and Mind and it's a 10% reduction instead.
Bane - which like its SMN counterpart, it spreads your single target DoT's (Bio, Bio II, Miasma)
But wait, there's more.
Once upon a time some of SCH's abilities applied their own status effects, I've already described Miasma's, but Ruin II got a "Blind" effect and Shadowflare had a "Slow" effect.
You could also micromanage your pets differently. Your pet abilities were on your Pet hotbar instead of as abilities in your list. Whilst you could still execute them, the way they were executed meant there were completely independent of the caster, so for example if you were mid casting "Adloquium" you could also cast "Whispering Dawn". But you could also case "Embrace" this way without relying on the AI, so it meant weave kind of play to SCH, which was especially useful back in the days SCH's pure heals were weaker. But thanks to faerie AI, this was an optional playstyle. So as one who loved this approach it wasn't stepping on the toes of those who didn't.
DPS wise, you could think of SCH as a DoT mage, which I liked because I felt this was how it tied mechanically with its FFXI counter part (which worked differently, but still, it was a DoT focus). At its prime you'd have put down: Shadowflare, Bio, Bio II, Miasma and Miasma II, you'd Bane Bio, Bio II and Miasma. This has all been reduced to 1 skill, Biolysis.
Other things to consider is that SCH was a weaker "pure" healer and depended a little more its "shield" healing aspect & anything the mitigated damage and faerie use was more important and a choice. In those situations you needed to heal less, you'd use Selene who'd provide more utility, which is great because you take a healing loss.
So when you reflect back, SCH has lost a LOT of its flavour.