Zenos too stupid to be a villain?

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02-12-2021, 06:41 AM
t0rn

Zenos too stupid to be a villain?

He came back to life and is letting an Ascian wreak havoc across the world, all to provoke the WoL into another duel. His sole purpose in life is to duel his “friend.” Dumb.
02-12-2021, 06:45 AM
Ammokkx

I mean we're letting you run free and wreak havoc across the forums, so really, I think that says a lot about us and Zenos both.
02-12-2021, 06:48 AM
linayar

Intelligence, or lack thereof, does not prevent one from becoming a villain, especially when one has the power to commit villainous acts.
02-12-2021, 06:52 AM
Khalithar

The shinryu fight should have never happened. Our fight with Zenos should have been a final 1v1 where he defeat him and then the rest of the story progresses as normal. That should have been the end of his arc.

In Endwalker our fight with Zenos should be a 1v1, no groups, just a brutal slugfest. Probably won't happen, but it's what I want.
02-12-2021, 06:59 AM
t0rn

Quote:

Originally Posted by linayar

Intelligence, or lack thereof, does not prevent one from becoming a villain, especially when one has the power to commit villainous acts.

So we’re still supposed to feel threatened by this big baby when it’s really the Ascian pulling the strings?

I think they took the “son” thing too far and turned him (Zenos) into an angsty teenager with no friends.
02-12-2021, 07:05 AM
Lauront

He's so lacking in any depth that he's profoundly deep... or so I'm told to believe.

But I can't wait for him to die for good. So that I can finally stop having to be so amazed by this incredible villain.
02-12-2021, 07:16 AM
linayar

Quote:

Originally Posted by t0rn

So we’re still supposed to feel threatened by this big baby when it’s really the Ascian pulling the strings?

I think they took the “son” thing too far and turned him (Zenos) into an angsty teenager with no friends.

What does feeling threatened has to do with Zenos being a villain? I never felt threatened by Emet, and he's a villain.

And threat is not intelligence either.
02-12-2021, 07:20 AM
Undeadfire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khalithar

The shinryu fight should have never happened. Our fight with Zenos should have been a final 1v1 where he defeat him and then the rest of the story progresses as normal. That should have been the end of his arc.

Stormblood had pretty bad story writing for all I can say.
02-12-2021, 07:20 AM
SturmChurro

I like Zenos. He's refreshing. Single-minded. Doesn't care about the world. I think he is actually highly intelligent.
02-12-2021, 07:22 AM
t0rn

Quote:

Originally Posted by linayar

What does feeling threatened has to do with Zenos being a villain? I never felt threatened by Emet, and he's a villain.

Um, everything? You didn’t get life-threatening or world-threatening vibes from those villains? I think you’re doing it (RPGing) wrong.
02-12-2021, 07:33 AM
Vickii

I really just thought he was rubbish until about an hour before the end of Stormblood where I thought he was pretty cool. And everything since then has been fine.

So I have hope he’s going to be better this time around. They just didn’t really do much with him in SB.
02-12-2021, 07:36 AM
BunniEclair

Yeah, he is too dumb to be a villain. That’s why he’ll become a scion with us instead.
02-12-2021, 07:56 AM
Lauront

Hopefully that's the point where we ditch the Scions and find new friends.
02-12-2021, 08:14 AM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khalithar

In Endwalker our fight with Zenos should be a 1v1, no groups, just a brutal slugfest. Probably won't happen, but it's what I want.

If fully expect that after the expansions Final Boss trial there will be a final solo "duel" trial against Zenos akin to FFVII's post-Safer∙Sephiroth Cloud vs Sephiroth duel.
02-12-2021, 08:21 AM
SilverObi

So I see that "Controversial Character X" came up on your roulette of things to troll for responses today.
02-12-2021, 08:33 AM
kidalutz

He's a bit well boring and unlikeable too one dimensionally really to feel like they should be the big bad yet again. I'm hoping middling boss.
02-12-2021, 08:40 AM
Xeronia

I know it is a troll but funny enough that short story relegated to the short story book about him would proves otherwise, he was basically just a bored genius left to his own devices due to Varis not really seeming to care about his son. If you ever get a chance to order the short story book and read it I highly recommend it for his and Hien's stories.
02-12-2021, 08:57 AM
t0rn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeronia

I know it is a troll but funny enough that short story relegated to the short story book about him would proves otherwise, he was basically just a bored genius left to his own devices due to Varis not really seeming to care about his son. If you ever get a chance to order the short story book and read it I highly recommend it for his and Hien's stories.

Genius, eh? Maybe he’s an idiot savant: brilliant at his hobbies, but lacking in normal areas.
02-12-2021, 08:57 AM
SomeRandomHuman

Zenos is a villian? I thought Edda was the primary villian.
02-12-2021, 08:59 AM
t0rn

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Zenos is a villian? I thought Edda was the primary villian.

He’s not exactly a hero...
02-12-2021, 09:06 AM
Jennah

Good thing he has Fandaniel to back him up.
That boy is neither stupid NOR unhinged.
02-12-2021, 01:22 PM
Theodric

Each to their own, I guess...but Zenos just isn't attractive to me at all. Hien? Sure. Thancred? Yep. Gaius? Yes. Zenos? No, thank you. His features just look strangely arranged and his hair looks to be greasy and unwashed.
02-12-2021, 01:27 PM
t0rn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

Each to their own, I guess...but Zenos just isn't attractive to me at all. Hien? Sure. Thancred? Yep. Gaius? Yes. Zenos? No, thank you. His features just look strangely arranged and his hair looks to be greasy and unwashed.

Hey, I don’t like how Brad Pitt looks, so there’s always room for differing opinions.
02-12-2021, 02:11 PM
Jkap_Goat

Zeno's is a washed up, second hand Sepiroth
02-12-2021, 02:21 PM
StriderShinryu

Not that I think Zenos is a great character (he's not) or a compelling villain (he's not), but the real issue with him is he's basically operating in a JRPG from 30 years ago while constantly surrounded by other, more interesting, more compelling villains. From Fordola to Yotsuyu and Asahi, from Vauthry to Ranjit, from Emet Selch to Elidibus. Even Fandaniel, while not really new or exciting, has more appeal.
Zenos would have been a boring villain in the days of cardboard cutout 2D characters but being upstaged by actual 3D characters at every turn has only made him appear even worse.
02-12-2021, 02:41 PM
Undeadfire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Zeno's is a washed up, second hand Sepiroth

Eh not really...

Sephiroth went mentally insane and wanted to damage the Planet enough to absorb the Planets life force and evolve to a deity.

Zenos wants to fight the strong, he's not anything like Sephiroth.
02-12-2021, 02:50 PM
AncientWillow

Zenos is the superior villian why because .. you don't rlly need a reason...
Killing for killing sake or to prove his the best and fighting for stronger targets to test his skills is amazing.
Which btw even flashs "zoom" is just that.
Plus his long blond hair those amazing eyes and the way he sits I'd let him leash me any day.
02-12-2021, 03:04 PM
Vahlnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennah

Good thing he has Fandaniel to back him up.
That boy is neither stupid NOR unhinged.

Stupid? No. Unhinged? Clearly. His whole "Imma burn it all to the ground. Why? Because I can!" thing makes that pretty obvious. The man is clearly playing 3D chess, but that doesn't make him any less insane.
02-12-2021, 03:53 PM
SpiralMask

he's not stupid i think, his goals are just too simple/shallow to really qualify as "main villain" status aside from the scale involved (the plot of stormblood would not have happened at all if zenos were literally anyone but the emperor's son; garlean society enabling him is what allowed him to effectively decimate two countries and brainjack a god)
02-12-2021, 07:13 PM
MistakeNot

Quote:

Originally Posted by t0rn

He came back to life and is letting an Ascian wreak havoc across the world, all to provoke the WoL into another duel. His sole purpose in life is to duel his “friend.” Dumb.

Zenos isn't stupid at all.
He is insane, not stupid. There is a difference.
02-12-2021, 07:21 PM
linayar

Quote:

Originally Posted by t0rn

Um, everything? You didn’t get life-threatening or world-threatening vibes from those villains? I think you’re doing it (RPGing) wrong.

Life-threatening and world-threatening to others? Sure. I get that from Zenos too as he's killed people. Threatening to me? Nope. Even when my character die, I'll just get stronger and eventually beat them. That's the right way to do RPG. If I'm going to be scared because the enemy might kill me permanently, then I'll never step out of the starting area at level 1. A good RPG always provides a way for my character to win.
02-12-2021, 10:13 PM
Novae

This guy is not a vilain anymore. A daydreamer maybe. Or a poet. 'My friend, my enemyyyyyyyyyyyy,,,".
He will become the Wandering Minstrel after leaving the Scions in 9.0.
02-13-2021, 05:16 AM
Jkap_Goat

Zenos is boring
02-13-2021, 05:19 AM
MaiSuu

Agreed, my least favorite villain, kinda bummed to see him return. I'm not a fan of return-villains. Stay dead, please. I'm hoping it's as some have suggested and he's more like a 'middle' boss, or I've lost some faith in this next expansion.
02-13-2021, 05:46 AM
Xeronia

I gotta say I love how everyone has written Zenos off already after it took... 3 expansion for the Ascians to have a their plot even partially explained. I have hope much like Elidibus who stood there for multiple expansions monologing we can pull something out of Zenos yet.
02-13-2021, 05:59 AM
VirusOnline

Quote:

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I like Zenos. He's refreshing. Single-minded. Doesn't care about the world. I think he is actually highly intelligent.

This is one of the main reasons why I adore Zenos. But the team wrote only one side of him . . . so far ?

The biggest issue though is it feels the team doesn't know how to involve him in the story at an emotional level to the player, which has caused him to be seen as uneccessary and a nuisance.
We don't know anything about him. The sole thing we know is that he loves a challenge, but like wth kinda jank interview response is that.
What has made him the way he is ? What makes him angry ? What triggers his emotions ? More importantly what I'm asking is : who is Zenos other than his desire for a dysfunctional sense of friendship through his own bloody defeat in battle ?
At this point he's a watered down character from HxH. He has less personality than a random at greed island.

These are questions we can easily answer about the Anti-Villain Emet-Selch and it's what has made most of us absolutely love him.
02-13-2021, 06:00 AM
SturmChurro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeronia

I gotta say I love how everyone has written Zenos off already after it took... 3 expansion for the Ascians to have a their plot even partially explained. I have hope much like Elidibus who stood there for multiple expansions monologing we can pull something out of Zenos yet.

No.. I like him as is. I don't think Zenos really needs a sob story like everyone else. That's why he is refreshing. He's a pretty good villain, and change of pace really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirusOnline

This is one of the main reasons why I adore Zenos. But the team wrote only one side of him . . . so far ?

The biggest issue though is it feels the team doesn't know how to involve him in the story at an emotional level to the player, which has caused him to be seen as uneccessary and a nuisance.
We don't know anything about him. The sole thing we know is that he loves a challenge, but like wth kinda jank interview response is that.
What has made him the way he is ? What makes him angry ? What triggers his emotions ? More importantly what I'm asking is : who is Zenos other than his desire for a dysfunctional sense of friendship through his own bloody defeat in battle ?
At this point he's a watered down character from HxH. He has less personality than a random at greed island.

These are questions we can easily answer about the Anti-Villain Emet-Selch and it's what has made most of us absolutely love him.

Zenos isn't really angry, he is apathetic; bored. Looking for a thrill, that only the WoL can give him. He is mysterious, highly intelligent, capable. Everything is simply a nuisance to him, just something between him and his quarry.
02-13-2021, 06:01 AM
Vahlnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No.. I like him as is. I don't think Zenos really needs a sob story like everyone else. That's why he is refreshing. He's a pretty good villain, and change of pace really.

He was a good villain...from the start of Stormblood to the end of the launch MSQ. I liked having a rival, but that should have been the end of him. Period.
02-13-2021, 06:09 AM
Xeronia

Quote:

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No.. I like him as is. I don't think Zenos really needs a sob story like everyone else. That's why he is refreshing. He's a pretty good villain, and change of pace really.

Zenos isn't really angry, he is apathetic; bored. Looking for a thrill, that only the WoL can give him. He is mysterious, highly intelligent, capable. Everything is simply a nuisance to him, just something between him and his quarry.

I mean more in that things around him could be explained better.(Mainly some stuff from say his short story locked behind buying the Chronicles of Light and that question Fandaniel had about him of "Could he have found a way.") I am perfectly fine with how he is now but I always felt we were lacking an explanation about much around him that may help some people.
02-13-2021, 06:10 AM
SturmChurro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

He was a good villain...from the start of Stormblood to the end of the launch MSQ. I liked having a rival, but that should have been the end of him. Period.

Zenos is a man who cares nothing for the ascian's plots, he is willing to take down a God, and destroy the world. No rhyme, no reason. That's truly scary. The ascians had their own twisted sense of morality, Zenos doesn't. It's all being done for the thrill of the hunt. To make the WoL fight HARDER for what is at stake. To make the final battle unforgettable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeronia

I mean more in that things around him could be explained better.(Mainly some stuff from say his short story locked behind buying the Chronicles of Light and that question Fandaniel had about him of "Could he have found a way.") I am perfectly fine with how he is now but I always felt we were lacking an explanation about much around him that may help some people.

I think it would dilute his character. He is better off being left as is, in my opinion.

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