summoner please don't take anything for it please improve the summoner

i for one hope SE you take time to improve on summoner as job and tried make more like summoner away meant to be a pet job. i want more pet jobs SE please think of pet jobs

Beastmaster limited job incoming. Please look forward to it.

In all seriousness though, Yoshi-P has already stated how much he doesn’t like pet jobs and how difficult they are to balance. With how clunky summoner is, I wouldn’t mind at all if they did a complete MCH-style revamp on it to get rid of egis and instead have a series of rotations that end in you summoning big versions of the primals to do a large scale attack or a support move.

i wish Yoshi P was more a fan of pet jobs they fun. sure they hard to balance but with you have method for them it become easy one way to do it is to studied pet jobs. and how other mmo balance they pet jobs

I won't mind large summon yet keep the Carbruncle as the pet and have summon then more like ffx yet you still have Carbuncle fight at your side

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

i for one hope SE you take time to improve on summoner as job and tried make more like summoner away meant to be a pet job. i want more pet jobs SE please think of pet jobs

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I really hope they do not mess with BLM. I also have a summoner alt, and they better not touch that.

Unfortunately they need to axe the egi, summoner just has a multitude of issues that simply are probably a nightmare to fix while trying to keep the pet. Without turning this into a numbers thread, dancers can’t even dance with SMN cause the pet is unaffected. SMN is still very much clunky and awful to play sometimes. I think a dedicated pet job would be better like beast master but SMN being a pet job with intermittent summons lol gg probably the worst job for the devs to deal with.

It’s only my opinion though so don’t take it to heart

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Beastmaster limited job incoming. Please look forward to it.

In all seriousness though, Yoshi-P has already stated how much he doesn’t like pet jobs and how difficult they are to balance. With how clunky summoner is, I wouldn’t mind at all if they did a complete MCH-style revamp on it to get rid of egis and instead have a series of rotations that end in you summoning big versions of the primals to do a large scale attack or a support move.

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He can dislike pet classes - but they're a key part of multiple other MMO's and one of the most popular choices for players to pick. They're also a staple in many single player RPG's - including Final Fantasy games, so...

Summoner is only clunky because it is designed to be clunky. That could be fixed without taking away the class fantasy of having a pet/minion to do one's bidding.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Unfortunately they need to axe the egi, summoner just has a multitude of issues that simply are probably a nightmare to fix while trying to keep the pet. Without turning this into a numbers thread, dancers can’t even dance with SMN cause the pet is unaffected. SMN is still very much clunky and awful to play sometimes. I think a dedicated pet job would be better like beast master but SMN being a pet job with intermittent summons lol gg probably the worst job for the devs to deal with.

It’s only my opinion though so don’t take it to heart

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It seems like they are slowly starting to phase out the Egi system, but so far are trying to work within the restrictions of the system. The Bahamut and Phoenix transformations are the way to go for the job, in my opinion. If they intend to keep the egi system, then I feel that the egis themselves should be upgraded to something...better. Maybe actual mini versions of the primals they are a part of, and then have these demi transformations as they are now. They could also, in theory, keep the egi glamour system in place for those who liked the old versions. I recently leveled SMN and I actually enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would...but only once I got Bahamut and Phoenix to use.

When I do play dps on the occasion I typically with go with my summoner, and while I do love it I think it’s the most nonsensical clunky job around. I really wish the spells a summoner could employ would just be attacks that pull the egi out for a spell and then move on to the next egi in the rotation. This could then build up to the Demi summons for the big bursts. Would have more of a summoner fantasy to me.

I also love DoT jobs, just feels weird that summoner is our DoT user. I’ve always thought that though.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

i wish Yoshi P was more a fan of pet jobs they fun. sure they hard to balance but with you have method for them it become easy one way to do it is to studied pet jobs. and how other mmo balance they pet jobs

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the FFXIV team has already given us a glimpse as to how they can incorporate pets effectively. I'm talking specifically about Living Shadow and Automaton Queen. These are two ogcd that have a preset move list, to an extent, and act as their jobs respective "pets". The carbuncles might benefit from such a design shift where egi assaults are ogcd's with decent cool downs and have the carbuncle react in a pre-determined way. It would free up complexity of the job to other skills and allow the summoner to do other things like maybe use shadow flare again?

However I think the writing is in the wall for SMN. Trances seem to be the direction that they are going, which I'm fine with since it feels like the single player FF's where you summon a primal to do some massive damage for a short period. I do hope they rework Dreadwyrm Trance to take advantage of this where your currently summoned egi (or glamour egi) will take the form of the Primal that it represents. ex. If you have Summon III, it will instead summon Ifrit and play out in a similar manner to the other trances. Maybe outburst is changed to Eruption and you can use Hellfire as its enkindle move. Also hoping for Alexander Trance or Judgment Trance, whatever they want to call it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It seems like they are slowly starting to phase out the Egi system,

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How do you mean?
Making their based commands GCD and allowing the versatility of swapping them at instant speed just seem to have blended them deeper into the SMN's kit.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Unfortunately they need to axe the egi,

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Considering the many items (both in game and out) based on the Egi/Carbuncle, I don't think it's fair to expect them to ever actually get axed. Imagine explaining to someone "Oh this? This is an Carbuncle Lamp. It's based on a creature that's been removed from the game." For better or worse I think they're here to stay.

i wish they would work expand summoner and pet i think they need figure out how expand it not do away with figure out a way make it work. i agree the island will help beastmaster. take summoner for example one could use Carbruncle and base the dps hp/mp on summoner's intellect. scholar's pet fairy could be base on healing hp/mp mind the scholars. you got 3 of other healer jobs expand the pets job would also help base the jobs out because then you build base for all the pet job dps and healing.

this work at point for wow till they tried change it look at this way int=1-5% hp and dps for they pet.

I kind of wish SMN was more like.. you prepare a ritual with a gauge, summon something, your whole spellbar changes into that summons attacks, it goes away, you prepare a ritual..

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I kind of wish SMN was more like.. you prepare a ritual with a gauge, summon something, your whole spellbar changes into that summons attacks, it goes away, you prepare a ritual..

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Some of us have been asking for this lol like before I stopped playing SMN cause that egi system is complete butt. People were throwing ideas out there about classic final fantasy Summoner/evoker like Yuna but those who love pet jobs kind of out weigh those of us who are kind of disgusted with SMNs current iteration.

Tbh I'd rather it have 0 attack spells outside pet related commands would be way better

Unless they can fix system pet system, rather they just get rid of or simplify pets like Fray or Queen/turret, just summon them and let do their thing rather than trying order, cause the delay can be annoying sometimes.

The phoenix part of the current summoner rotation feels the most fun to me and I'd say having summoner be a job where you're essentially switching your "stance" via which summon you have out, and having that summon impact your skill order/priority/availability makes the summon elements feel impactful to me. If it's going to stay a pet class, fine, I guess, but I swear to god if I have another egi assault get ghosted I'm about to ghost the whole job.

I haven't touched SMN since I logged in and found out my Topaz Carbuncle was no longer tanking anything. The only reason it has leveled is because SCH is somewhat still enjoyable to play. I miss having a truer pet class.

egi really need to go and SMN kit needs an Aesthetic overhaul to actually be primal themed instead of just poison wizard

SMN is fine, best be quiet about it before you get the devs to give it the MNK treatment and ruin the job.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

SMN is fine, best be quiet about it before you get the devs to give it the MNK treatment and ruin the job.

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To my knowledge, the MNK changes have been received pretty well. They were a mess for awhile before them though.

I just want them to do away with the current small egi's and the DoT's. They need to further embrace the Demi Bahamut/Pheonix playstyle and expand on it with more Demi Summons and have their kit tailor to enhancing their summons. Summoner feels like it's in the middle of a identity crisis with it's current iteration.

For me i think they should do the following:

Cut Dots and perhaps Aetherflow (Id be happy for Aetherflow to stay divorced from dots, but linked somehow to egis.
Merge DWT with Bahamut and give it the same rotation as phoenix. IN DWT make Ruin3 -> Ruin4, Outburst -> Deathflare.
Add another trance - > Light based following SHB: Personal Choice would be demi Innocence or any boss Sin-Eater as we have bathed in their aether (lore consideration) Alternatively we could go: Tsukiyomi or WOL.
Cut the link between Egi attacks and Ruin 4
Divorce Titans Shield from Titan-egi and make it available at all times, (Titan pops out to cast it then vanishes if not summoned)
on an animation front, give DWT the Wing effect from the LB.

Other things to change:
Merge Enkindle with Enkindle-Demi
Fix shy Bahamut Lost puppy behaviour.

I think they should keep the Egis. I mean, they are a big part of the job. The ARR questline for SMN revolves around getting the Egis, so it be impossible to outright remove them without breaking the questline.

@OP: unless they're gonna do something to let them condense down actions somehow (the recent BLU spells have been playing around with toggle/state spells like cold fog and suzaku's kick for example), with us already being at the soft 'action limit' for controller support and another 10 levels of actions/passives on the way to sell the new classes, every class is gonna continue getting gutted and spread thinner each expansion--which is gonna make levelling a new job suck even more than it already does.

I like them to doing demi with twist i like them have it so you have carbruncle summon and make carbruncle more like Prime servants so you summon Shiva and Ramuh these two as more demi
so you have carbruncle on feild and then for limit time you have both demi and carbruncle on feild at same time. the question really is what is summoner what is suppose be is suppose be is suppose be a pet job or is suppose be a dark magic spell cast with select posion and such. are you tried make it feel like summoner for ff series if so how are you going go about it. i think devs need spend time studied other pet jobs and studied summoner for ff series how can you make summoner happy with they job and make them feel like they are summoner. I like have more elememtal base dot for summoner when you demi-ifrit on feild and carbruncle your damage is more burn base damage or Shiva on feild it more Frost base. if we limit who can summon prime and only summoner can draw demi-Egi which a faction of they power then make spell more base on the summon.

i away felt that Phoenix and bahumat should be more of a lb 3 moves. and the Prime more demi-Egi will allow you to draw on more of their power.

if you ruby carbruncle on feild i like have more fire base dots or if you have diamond carbruncle which would Shiva servant on feild more frost base magic dots.

here my view i know not all argee

depend which carbruncle that which demi you get

Diamand Carbruncle=Demi Shiva has 30 second time on battle magic relate sickness Frostbite and Hypothermia
Ruby Carbruncle= demi Ifrit Burning heat strock
Amyestria Carburncle=Ramuh Shock damage aftershock
Topaz Carbruncle= titan a buff for the summoner or a allied or just normal posion.
Saphire Carbruncle= out breath and wind burn\

you doing more spell related to summoner ability bring out the Egi but make the Egi into demi allow summoner to draw on Carbruncles instead would alot nice also let you customized how Demi-Egi look you have ffx or ffvii or ffviii

You can really feel the different "versions" of Summoner with the current iteration. I love the class, but it is so disjointed - every expansion simply added another mechanic instead of evolving what was there, and none of them took the care to apply the current design goals to the entirety of the class. There is very little internal consistency.

In my opinion, they should do away with the DoTs and accompanying gameplay entirely - Summoning has always been about getting that one good, but costly, hit in. Big chunks of damage. Completely antithetical to DoTs. Lean into that iconic aspect of why anyone in a Final Fantasy game casts a summon.

Let's shift the class to the summons as much as is possible.

I'd like it if Summon Bahamut and Dreadwyrm Trance were merged into a single ability, so that space can be made for a Demi-Shiva summon.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I'd like it if Summon Bahamut and Dreadwyrm Trance were merged into a single ability, so that space can be made for a Demi-Shiva summon.

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Honestly, we only need one button for "phase transition." And the buttons we press in those phases can change as well. With some logic applied (of which there is currently little).

1 sec need to copy paste this since there was one other thread. Ahem

Oh it's that time of the month. Well alright ill go through the yada yada really quick.
No Smn doesn't have an identity crisis
No they won't remove dots , egis or whatever came up when you headbutted the keyboard and looked vaguely like a smn mech, job has been reworked 4 different times at this point its the routine.
Yes the A.I. still suck, any other problem such as rigidness , destruction of aetherflow mechs along with many more have been duly noted and talked about since 5.0
Most likely changes to happen is Bahamut and trance been consolidated cause of how popular pheonix is , but problem wise it will just make the job more rigid.

Back to the normal life now

Demis are way better than Egis. Also they are more Summoner like unlike Egis which could be added to any random class

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

To my knowledge, the MNK changes have been received pretty well. They were a mess for awhile before them though.

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Point still stands that stuff was removed, though. If it works it works, I guess. I'm still a bit divided on the issue.

If the issue of the egis being tied into the storyline were to be considered then we could still have the egis involved in our spells even if they weren’t a “pet” in the normal sense. Our basic spells could evoke the egis for said spell and then dismiss them. So they aren’t cut completely and it still fulfills the summoner fantasy.

I just want my HW SMN back ;_; They took away so many of my favorite spells, and made it super clunky.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Point still stands that stuff was removed, though. If it works it works, I guess. I'm still a bit divided on the issue.

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Complexity doesn't always equal fun though. Clearly not enough people found MNK fun its prior state, so they went and tweaked it.

You hate what you suck at.

I Hated Math

I Liked Science.

Pet jobs are not really that difficult to balance, says every other mmo not named FFXIV........ XI SMN is pretty strong.

As much as I like BST

As much as I don't have a class in XIV that I truly like

They messed up the poster-boy.....The flagship....The franchise....Summoner.

Summoner is FF's mascot job. It is like Nintendo messing up Mario and be like "I really dislike doing Mario games." I am still amazed, til this day, how they managed to screw up SMN.....AFTER getting it right in the very last mmo lol.....

I don't know if BST is coming. Would not be mad at them for not making it. They suck at pet classes. However, hunters or scout pet classes are a staple of mmo.....Even superhero mmo managed to implement some form of scout pet classes.

XIV is living off of the IP. At its' core, XIV is a flawed mmo. If you remove the FF IP, would XIV still be a top mmo? Doubt it....Great story, poor job implementation. No other mmo not named XIV or WoW would get away with this.

Saying that, Sage looks very cool. How will it play is another story....

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I kind of wish SMN was more like.. you prepare a ritual with a gauge, summon something, your whole spellbar changes into that summons attacks, it goes away, you prepare a ritual..

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It actually is that though its only half of it now cause they removed the aetherflow. Basically in order to summon you gather aether and then transmute it in order to do that you need to attune to said aether once.
What smn did and still does only one part has been horrificly changed is gather aether by using your aetherflow and release it with abilities (fester, painflare) then take that aether and get into the trance state producing more aether like that then release it and use that aether to perform a demi-summon.
The reason you do all that instead of just going right into it is cause your aether is limited and more aether means more powerfull summon. We currently have attuned our own aether to be able to summon ifrit/garuda/titan but since we don't have alot of it they are smaller and weaker. Every other ability we got except maybe bio is literally different applications of the same magic we use to summon,
if we just took the aether and just threw it we get ruin 3 ,
if we took a bit less we get ruin 2
if we use the aether our egis spent we get ruin 4
if we instead of tried to create a whole being and instead used their aether to repair the missing parts we get physick and ressurection
if we used our aether to block our enemies aether it would cause their lungs to collapse akin to how black rose does and what thancred is suffering, that's how we get miasma
if we made somebodies aether go haywire it would burst out into an explosion , if more aether was there it would cause a bigger explosion this is what fester does
Currently painflare and bane are the ones that haven't gotten an explanation
And bio got an explanation in bosja a mage said straight up that its just poison.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Complexity doesn't always equal fun though. Clearly not enough people found MNK fun its prior state, so they went and tweaked it.

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Expect it does equal fun 2 alot of people hints y I no longer play monk now..
Not every job needs to be designed for brain dead players... like it is now

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Pet jobs are not really that difficult to balance, says every other mmo not named FFXIV........ XI SMN is pretty strong.

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1) Balance in FFXI? What a hilarious joke.

2) SMN was trash in 90% of XI content, and only "good" at the hardest content that no casual SMN player wanted to try. And by good I mean, SMN was only ever in your party as a White Mage's subjob. And don't bring up 76+ level content, no one gives a crap about Abyssea or SMN cheaping Pandemonium Warden with Alexander.

Meanwhile XIV SMN can be played casually, and it's good at everything a DPS needs to be good at.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Complexity doesn't always equal fun though. Clearly not enough people found MNK fun its prior state, so they went and tweaked it.

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Previously MNK wasn’t complex more than any other job, maintaining GL want any harder than keeping huton up on NIN or maintaining your DRG rotation.

Loud whiners get things changed and more often than not it’s usually for the worse. Don’t let the FOTM kiddies get SMN butchered.