Request: by 6.0 please change the rules on PF against run sellers

I'm at 116 people right now in my blacklist, besides 4-5 of the people on there, the only people I blacklist are the people plaguing the party finder with their runselling.

Every day just about there's a new PF I have to blacklist the runner for. We all know the spheal by now.

CONTACT ME ON DISCORD TO BUY YOUR RUNS FOR ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME! WE WILL KEEP ADDING PEOPLE TO OUR GROUPS SO YOU WILL RUN OUT OF BLACKLIST SPACE EVENTUALLY!

I've seen the exact same copy/paste PFs again and again, and blacklist does nothing to stop me from seeing them.

On the worst days there will be about 80 or so PF Groups up, only for me to be able to see barely half of them because of these run sellers and me wanting nothing to do with them. Right now as I'm typing this there's 12 PF groups I can't see out of about 47, including many people putting the exact same copy/paste PF group at the same time with the only difference being in the discord number to contact them on. I've even seen level 1 characters putting those PF groups up just to get around blacklists. (Worst is then they say they take pre-payments for content not even out yet)

I didn't really care about the run sellers when it was ONLY for gil, since a there weren't many groups up at all, but now there's too many people trying to get in on this and it's legit a pain in the ass to see.

And again, I'm at 116 people blacklisted, and I moved to Odin from Cerberus when the free world jumps were offered to people a couple months before 5.0. That's barely a couple years to go from nothing to over half full and I'll run out of space to blacklist people at some point during the 6.X series.

They're kind of annoying, but do they really disrupt the functionality of the party finder enough to justify spending time blacklisting that many of them? I use the PF daily and haven't really found it intrusive enough to warrant action.

All the pfs advertising ERP on the other hand...

While I feel your pain on the spam, run sells are not against the ToS.

This kind of post pops up every couple of months.

May I suggest a different server (jp servers have little spam comparatively) or just filtering shouts.

The suck is you can’t filter PF...which I wish they did have.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

While I feel your pain on the spam, run sells are not against the ToS.

This kind of post pops up every couple of months.

May I suggest a different server (jp servers have little spam comparatively) or just filtering shouts.

The suck is you can’t filter PF...which I wish they did have.

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It's why I'm asking them to make it against the ToS, a couple other MMOs have made rules against this very thing and it should honestly be more wide spread. You have to trick the PF run sellers into admitting they take money from outside the game to do anything about it, and eventually I'm gonna run out of SE's limited blacklist space because I don't want to see those run sellers.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

While I feel your pain on the spam, run sells are not against the ToS.

This kind of post pops up every couple of months.

May I suggest a different server (jp servers have little spam comparatively) or just filtering shouts.

The suck is you can’t filter PF...which I wish they did have.

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Selling runs for real money is against the ToS that's why they will never speak a word about in game. Also for stuff like ultimate's I heard they log into your character for you which is also against the ToS.

Selling runs for in game gil is perfectly fine in my opinion. No different then a crafter selling gear to people, it is just battle classes selling their services.

Problem is the "talk to us through discord only people" on party finder more times then not are run sellers for real money. They use the discord because SE cannot use any evidence of rmt that is not in in-game chat itself. So talk about selling stuff for RL money outside the game... SE does nothing. They are also doing it because they make you give them your login info so they can play your character through the clears since you cannot really 7 man savage stuff anymore with a dead person, which is also against TOS.

Though my blacklist is almost capped out by blacklisting cancerous garbage I find in party finder trying to clear the run the legit way, no space to blacklist rmt anymore. At like 188 ppl blacklisted now.. need a blacklist expansion. So sick of people who endlessly complain about parser results on a progression group or just flat out do not heal/do a mechanics so they can max dps... SE really needs to take down FFLogs and parsers makes raiding pure cancer. Which using is also against TOS.... Sorta wonder why SE has a TOS if they do not enforce any of bigger issues plaguing the game.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Selling runs for in game gil is perfectly fine in my opinion. No different then a crafter selling gear to people, it is just battle classes selling their services.

Problem is the "talk to us through discord only people" on party finder more times then not are run sellers for real money. They use the discord because SE cannot use any evidence of rmt that is not in in-game chat itself. So talk about selling stuff for RL money outside the game... SE does nothing. They are also doing it because they make you give them your login info so they can play your character through the clears since you cannot really 7 man savage stuff anymore with a dead person, which is also against TOS.

Though my blacklist is almost capped out by blacklisting cancerous garbage I find in party finder trying to clear the run the legit way, no space to blacklist rmt anymore. At like 188 ppl blacklisted now.. need a blacklist expansion. So sick of people who endlessly complain about parser results on a progression group or just flat out do not heal/do a mechanics so they can max dps... SE really needs to take down FFLogs and parsers makes raiding pure cancer. Which using is also against TOS.... Sorta wonder why SE has a TOS if they do not enforce any of bigger issues plaguing the game.

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Generally ppl that have issues with logs and parsers are people that don’t do well when actually examined. Yet think they’re good enough to tackle high end content. There’s no issue whatsoever with parsers and logs. It’s a very very tiny vocal minority that are smootbrain’d enough to talk crap to people in game about actual numbers. Chill

Back to op, it’s totally legal and nothing wrong with it since there’s literally no Gil sinks in this game. Your blacklist OCD is a personal problem frankly...

It shouldn't be a problem now, all the hardcore ultimate raiders are quitting, so there won't be anyone to sell runs, right?

I wish that was the case anyway....

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Generally ppl that have issues with logs and parsers are people that don’t do well when actually examined. Yet think they’re good enough to tackle high end content. There’s no issue whatsoever with parsers and logs. It’s a very very tiny vocal minority that are smootbrain’d enough to talk crap to people in game about actual numbers. Chill

Back to op, it’s totally legal and nothing wrong with it since there’s literally no Gil sinks in this game. Your blacklist OCD is a personal problem frankly...

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If it was totally legal and nothing wrong with it they wouldn't have any problem talking to you in game over pricing now would they?

Coming from WoW. Run sellers will slowly and surely strangulate communication over the in-game channels so it would be for the best to snuff it out early even if it's just for gil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Generally ppl that have issues with logs and parsers are people that don’t do well when actually examined. Yet think they’re good enough to tackle high end content. There’s no issue whatsoever with parsers and logs. It’s a very very tiny vocal minority that are smootbrain’d enough to talk crap to people in game about actual numbers. Chill

Back to op, it’s totally legal and nothing wrong with it since there’s literally no Gil sinks in this game. Your blacklist OCD is a personal problem frankly...

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Pretty much no one is selling content for actual gil. It's real money. They hide behind that to keep from getting the boot but gil, even in extremely high quantities is basically useless unless you are trying to corner the housing market (which is the biggest gil sink this game has) and as you pointed out there's no other real uses for that much gil so why use a useless currency to sell your hard work? (They're not. It's a cover.)

What they should do is make mislabeling in PF reportable and start handing out PF bans to repeat offenders. NOT account or IP bans even. Just banned from PF if you're spamming up the place using the roulette tags (the amount of time based on the number of infractions). The game is totally still playable to those who get the boot (from PF) and the player base can do their own policing.

I get tired of scrolling thru all of that crap too. It's ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Generally ppl that have issues with logs and parsers are people that don’t do well when actually examined. Yet think they’re good enough to tackle high end content. There’s no issue whatsoever with parsers and logs. It’s a very very tiny vocal minority that are smootbrain’d enough to talk crap to people in game about actual numbers. Chill

Back to op, it’s totally legal and nothing wrong with it since there’s literally no Gil sinks in this game. Your blacklist OCD is a personal problem frankly...

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Yeah, totally my problem when people are demanding you talk to them outside of the game for other things that aren't gil/items in game. I've managed to trick someone before to saying to me in game they were charging money through paypal just so I could report them.

And TOTALLY my fault that I don't want to see run sellers spamming the same tripe over and over, including using alt accounts GETTING AROUND THE BLACKLIST FEATURE, with a high chance they know that they're doing so.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If it was totally legal and nothing wrong with it they wouldn't have any problem talking to you in game over pricing now would they?

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I've bought runs before for gil back in ARR when people were more cringy about anyone wanting to learn fights/having a newbie bonus

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Coming from WoW. Run sellers will slowly and surely strangulate communication over the in-game channels so it would be for the best to snuff it out early even if it's just for gil.

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I've seen their new rules about that, which is why I believe it should be something more games should enforce. In game currency/items as long as it's gil not bought from gil sellers? Sure.

Hook, line, AND sinker

Here's the little secret nobody tells you: Selling runs for gil is RMT, with literal money laundering.

Here's how it works:

1. Loser wants a boost.
2. Loser buys gil with cash from a botter
3. Loser pays the boosters with that gil.
3. Boosters sell the gil back to the botters for cash.

Loser gets the clear and loot, boosters and botters get paid in cash. The run was paid with gil, gil is besides the point here.

Selling runs, including asking or linking to discussions out of game should be against the TOS.

The TOS needs to be worded in such a way to allow the anti-cheating teams to suspend or ban users they know are cheating but can't do anything because "It's technically allowed because it's only gil".

At the very least, a separate category should be added to PF for carry offers. Those who like to earn what they get can find like minded players easier. Those who want someone else to do the work can find the sellers easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Here's the little secret nobody tells you: Selling runs for gil is RMT, with literal money laundering.

Here's how it works:

1. Loser wants a boost.
2. Loser buys gil with cash from a botter
3. Loser pays the boosters with that gil.
3. Boosters sell the gil back to the botters for cash.

Loser gets the clear and loot, boosters and botters get a cut in every step. Everyone makes a profit. The run was paid with gil, gil is besides the point here.

Selling runs, including asking or linking to discussions out of game should be against the TOS.

The TOS needs to be worded in such a way to allow the anti-cheating teams to suspend or ban users they know are cheating but can't do anything because "It's technically allowed because it's only gil".

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Gil is easy to come by and really doesn't have all that much value in the game so why would anyone use it as a middleman? That player could just buy their carry directly with real money if they're going to spend real money. It's all going to be arranged outside of game channels in either case so there's nothing in SE's logs that can be used against them.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Selling runs for real money is against the ToS that's why they will never speak a word about in game. Also for stuff like ultimate's I heard they log into your character for you which is also against the ToS.

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Not all runs are sold for RMT, and there is history of clearing with 7 members. There is almost an exact mirror of this post a few months back with relevant links.

What people do with the gil is unrelated and obviously banable if RMT is involved.

My point is, the isolated act of selling (or buying) a run is not against ToS.

I will save time linking to basically this same topic from a while back:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ears-and-items

With a relevant posts:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ek4y1k7rA

Ultima ultimate cleared with 7 people. I never specified any specific fight, just that if it were possible, people could make money.

There is a difference in stance that “all ultimates can be done with 7”, and “fights which can be done with 7 will see clear sales”. My point is the latter.

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And

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Not only is it not bannable, but is actually considered a legit transaction between players from the devs/GM point of view.

(Eg. Post from 2017 with GM being quoted as saying such: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post4500631 )

#28 on that thread:

GM:"I see, according to the logs they seem to only be selling runs for Gil and that they have it listed cross-world by default."
GM: "Selling runs for Gil is not against the terms of service."
GM: "I feel that I have everything I need to begin my investigation. Before I take my leave is there anything else that I may be able to assist you with today?"
I ask if they can request the advertisers to uncheck the option that has the listings being shown across the data center.
GM: "No I can not"
GM: "Players are allowed to do this and it would be interruption of their game play if I were to make them stop."
Me: Even though it's across the data center? (paraphrased)
GM: "That's correct."
Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)
The GM then ends the conversation.

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Couldn't SE just trick those run sellers by making fake accounts (the ones they will ask your info for and log to run said stuff) and track the players in that raid party and get rid of them? I assume those players need to have at least good gear which cost them effort and weeks/months to get, they're not as disposable as bot gil selling accounts that keep farming endlessly.

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Originally Posted by M0rrigan

Couldn't SE just trick those run sellers by making fake accounts (the ones they will ask your info for and log to run said stuff) and track the players in that raid party and get rid of them? I assume those players need to have at least good gear which cost them effort and weeks/months to get, they're not as disposable as bot gil selling accounts that keep farming endlessly.

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They could theoretically, but considering how little effort they put into controlling blatant illicit activity in-game I seriously doubt they'd ever take that much initiative against something that's happening outside.