Square-Enix: You BROKE your PROMISE on the Bozjan Weapons

I absolutely despise Eureka and its later-day knockoff, but that is not what this post is about.

SE - the English Community at least was under the apprehension that you told us all we would not have to even enter the Southern Front to complete Gerolt's weapons. This morning, we have awoken to find that that is not the case; that Castrum Lucus Litore must be completed to advance beyond i500. Which includes quite a bit of grinding on the Southern Front as well.

Why? Why would you do this? In ARR and HW, Relics were the best (and pretty much ONLY) long-term solo-and-DF content; I will never understand your decision to change this.

But that's not the main point - the main thing is that your announcements to the English Community - as well as the quest chains in 5.25 and 5.35 - left us all thinking we would never have to enter the Southern Front. And now we have to nearly finish it if we want to progress - or more likely, stick our i500 weapons on a retainer, and forget that they ever existed. All 17 of them in my case. Which I would have never even started if you had not reassured us we would not have to do Eureka 2, Electric Boogaloo to finish them.

If I were in your position, I would be issuing a quick apology; and letting us know if the quest requirement will be removed in a hotfix, 5.48, 5.5, 5.55, or 6.0. And have some harsh words for the English translation team, who let this impression remain up until this morning.

If you are not going to do anything, I would still implore you to examine your own analytics before finalizing the 6.x relic plans. Look at the current number of completed relics owned by people with no or little Mettle. Then when 5.5 is released, compare the same number. Also look at how many people own 5.45's relic with the absolute minimum amount of Mettle versus having continued to participate in Bozja. I cannot help but imagine the numbers will pain a graphic and vivid picture of the community's distaste for all things Eurekan.

And if I'm wrong? At the very least, I am certain several people will reply to this telling me how Bozja is great - or more likely "that it's not that bad"? Well, like I said, I am FAR more furious about the broken promise than the terrible design decision. Not mad enough to unsub - or even to make more than one post - but still extremely angry. And disappointed.

You can queue up with 48 people now into bozja content via partyfinder, so better start socialising if you want those fancy weapons.

People who want to get their hands on Baldesions Arsenal content also have to do so, and even formed a discord channel about it, so its probably only a matter of time until someone does the same on bozja, unless you find yourself enough friends and a FC that shares your enthusiasm.

But it is still Day 1 on Patch 5.45 so bozja should be quite lively.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

You can queue up with 48 people now into bozja content via partyfinder, so better start socialising if you want those fancy weapons.

People who want to get their hands on Baldesions Arsenal content also have to do so, and even formed a discord channel about it, so its probably only a matter of time until someone does the same on bozja, unless you find yourself enough friends and a FC that shares your enthusiasm.

But it is still Day 1 on Patch 5.45 so bozja should be quite lively.

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As Jennah stated it's the fact they gave the impression on Bozja never being required once and to Jennah's credit I do agree that this was something they, my friend, and I were really not expecting. It shouldn't matter if Bozja is gonna be lively at 5.45's release it's the fact that they knew this decision was coming and some heads up or a fair warning at the start of the Relic story that Bozja would be required eventually down the line would have been great. They blatantly lied to those who hated Eureka back in Stormblood and are trying to force us to do it if we want to continue the Relic passed ilvl 500. Probably because Metrics didn't show that Bozja could be determined "Successful" in their eyes. This is a terrible design choice, because those like Jennah, My friend, and I have to now do "Eureka 2, Electric Boogaloo" (Love that name) to just continue this relic. I have stopped doing Relic as of this part of the patch, because I will not do content that is just a fate grind. That's not content in my eyes and it should not be considered content in anyone's eyes the way they implemented it. People may say it worked in FFXI, but that was over 15 years ago since it released. It worked back then, but it doesn't work now. Copying old content and revamping it to the style of your modern game does not give it a pass and should not be given a pass by anyone who loves FFXIV. Yes Bozja is lively right now, but that won't mean it will be lively by next week or in the next couple days. Once people get their relics complete it will be dead again and those who are trying to do multiple relics can't do that, because those who only focus on one job already have it done therefore it makes it unbelievably slow. That's not acceptable and should not be acceptable by anyone in the community.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

If I were in your position, I would be issuing a quick apology; and letting us know if the quest requirement will be removed in a hotfix, 5.48, 5.5, 5.55, or 6.0. And have some harsh words for the English translation team, who let this impression remain up until this morning.

If you are not going to do anything, I would still implore you to examine your own analytics before finalizing the 6.x relic plans. Look at the current number of completed relics owned by people with no or little Mettle. Then when 5.5 is released, compare the same number. Also look at how many people own 5.45's relic with the absolute minimum amount of Mettle versus having continued to participate in Bozja. I cannot help but imagine the numbers will pain a graphic and vivid picture of the community's distaste for all things Eurekan.

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And I believe this part too. SE should issue an apology and give us an alternative to do the relic that doesn't include Bozja like they said. I for one would like an apology, but getting anything from this team from my perspective is like trying to pull teeth with your bare hands. Just may not ever happen. I'm happy you won't cancel your sub, but that's entirely up to you. I won't, but SE should take note that they have done a lot of wrong to players who don't have a lot to do in terms of content that's not Eureka 1 or 2. I for one am getting kind of impatient with them slightly, because this isn't the first time they have made me a bit upset about their design choices. First one was when they started cutting back on "X" amount of dungeons per patch. Was understandable in HW to a point, but then in Stormblood I just saw it as them getting lazy and we don't get anything new above what they take away up to now.

So who knows. Maybe we'll get an apology for the misleading information we were given, but I doubt they will ever give us an alternative route to obtain these weapons. The lying is what starts the downwards spiral to a point where players such as you and/or I may end up canceling our subs and moving onto something else. I have kept my hopes up high for the XIV team to do something great again like with ARR's and HW's Relics, but that spark is slowly starting to just burn out.

SE has absolutely nothing to apologise for, nor have they broken any promises.

From the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LVII:

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In Eureka, upgrade materials could only be gathered inside Eureka itself, but for Save the Queen we’re planning to have other methods to obtain the required items outside of the specific content.

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You're able to obtain the required items for the relic just fine, outside Bozja. However, it doesn't say that you'll be able to completely finish the relic without stepping into the Southern Front.

They said back in the May Live Letter that while it's possible to gather stuff outside Bozja, you would always have to do the Save the Queen Quests to carry on with the weapon. People just chose to ignore that.

So now you have to go into Bozja? Nice!
Should have been like that from the start.

The thing with Bozja is, it feels so...pointless. Boxes are nearly exclusively Indigo Prisms, Memory Mobs are just a means to farm assets to be better at farming, CLL is pretty much dead content, even more so with loot available in Skirmishes, plus it competes for players by being a CE that needs to trigger. Maybe moving CLL from a CE to a conventional queued Duty might help?

In addition, Bozja feels...unrewarding. Progression exclusively hardgated behind Skirmishes and CEs, and droprates on anything one could jump on for a quick solo round are atrocious, so if you go with anything but a party, to pull a whole mob type and AoE it down, tough luck.

All in all, Bozja feels......halfdone and terrible. The flair? Awesome. But you are pretty much forced to run in a party for anything that has a hint of a chance to provide any progress or output.

My main complaint is I don't think they really fixed the Castrum issue. Now that DR is out, people are in Bozja to get mettle or do CEs for the relic again... And then again no one wants to do it. I know the patch notes say there's new rewards in there but I haven't heard to what extent those are yet. I only went in there today for the DR unlock and then to get the new emote with clusters, so I don't know if people are doing it again or not.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

So now you have to go into Bozja? Nice!
Should have been like that from the start.

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Or maybe they could actually make Bozja fun instead of making it feel like you're shopping at Wal-Mart on a Black Friday with all the crowds you have to fight against and running around you have to do

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Originally Posted by Ezina

but then in Stormblood I just saw it as them getting lazy

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That's the exact feeling I have about several things in FFXIV since SB. This and no risks taken.
I seriously hope 6.0 will bring something fresh...

Yep, I'm angry. People who hated that relics were tied to Eureka made it clear they wanted a weapon questline disconnected from any specific instanced zone. So here they "listen" to that feedback, and then issue an epic troll where they say "But you can get the pieces outside!" which is a completely tone-deaf and obtuse response to the complaints.

I do hope they do look at the numbers of people who fell off on their resistance weapons starting with this piece and pay attention this time. I think unfortunately because people forced themselves to do Eureka, they had high numbers on relic weapons to point to and say "See! See! People want to go here!". But their design seems like it's going to badly work against them here, since completion depends on group zones that require the instances to stay populated. That doesn't seem to be as much the case with Bozja.

Bottom line is, some dev has a hard-on for EQ/FFXI era games and they refuse to let this zone stand on its own two feet. Things like epic weapons were the exclusive territory in those games of group and raid content. They would rather arrogantly decide that they can force players into content they don't enjoy than give them options.

I'll probably stay for the MSQ. But they're giving casual players less and less reasons to stay subbed between MSQ patches.

Square never gave that impression. You gave yourself that impression.

We have to do Bozja to get rewards from Bozja? Outrageous!

What i hate is that I can either farm Syrcus Tower every 20 min for a guaranteed memory drop or waste an hour inside the actual content and do 4 CE's and not get a single memory drop. drop rate's should be the other way around. should be 100% drop in the actual content and random outside.

tech you can do the 24 man but you have to complete the one quest going into castrum and the new one is just as bad expecting perfect runs just isn't feasible. They haven't nerfed eureka yet and by now they normally would have in 5.3 and this one is well on track to mirror eureka cept eureka was way better than this ever will be even pagos and the next time you make a fire lvl complete the entire area with fire not half ice half fire.

Oh and i would of skipped the sycrusa tover part I've done enough of those to last a life time maybe ill spam world of darkness but I'd rather do 60+ instances. lvl 50 rotations are terrible.

Basically, Square and Enix both (separately) built up what I had assumed would be a lifetime of good will from me between 1986 and 1996. They are the reason I like computers, and gaming. And still play indie games in the style of FF1-6 and DQ1-6 all the time.

I still find myself angry beyond words at this utter betrayal. This is worse than FF13, or 1.0.
I'd have been severely disappointed if they had *told* us they were going to make us run Bozja ahead of time.
But they did not. In fact, many interviews said the exact opposite, or at least allowed the opposite assumption to be widely made in NA circles, what with not having Bozja be a requirement for multiple patches.
I am still beyond angry, even days later.

And I don't want to hear it from anyone about "Oh, Bozja is not really all that bad"
First - if that's the best praise you can come up with, it's extremely telling about the whole Eurekan archetype.
Second - if you actually claim to LIKE Bozja, I am going to personally assume you are either a troll, or that your mind works so differently from mine that we cannot mutually comprehend each other. Poe's Law and all. Sorry, I don't mean to insult you, but that's the reality.
Third - that's not the point. It is the *PRINCIPLE* of the thing. If people complain about Eureka; if people *refuse to do Eureka*, in the future there may be less Eureka. That is far more important than any iLvl increase.

Frankly, I'm angry enough that it's affected my health I'm finding myself feeling like I'm forced to log on [and I am; parties for BLU spells will be deader-than-Castrum even faster.]
And having to log off after about 2 hours to cool down.
I was super excited to see what the whole announcement showcase was about; now I cannot even convince myself to care. If nothing else, this betrayal was *awful* timing on SE's part.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Basically, Square and Enix both (separately) built up what I had assumed would be a lifetime of good will from me between 1986 and 1996. They are the reason I like computers, and gaming. And still play indie games in the style of FF1-6 and DQ1-6 all the time.

I still find myself angry beyond words at this utter betrayal. This is worse than FF13, or 1.0.
I'd have been severely disappointed if they had *told* us they were going to make us run Bozja ahead of time.
But they did not. In fact, many interviews said the exact opposite, or at least allowed the opposite assumption to be widely made in NA circles, what with not having Bozja be a requirement for multiple patches.
I am still beyond angry, even days later.

And I don't want to hear it from anyone about "Oh, Bozja is not really all that bad"
First - if that's the best praise you can come up with, it's extremely telling about the whole Eurekan archetype.
Second - if you actually claim to LIKE Bozja, I am going to personally assume you are either a troll, or that your mind works so differently from mine that we cannot mutually comprehend each other. Poe's Law and all. Sorry, I don't mean to insult you, but that's the reality.
Third - that's not the point. It is the *PRINCIPLE* of the thing. If people complain about Eureka; if people *refuse to do Eureka*, in the future there may be less Eureka. That is far more important than any iLvl increase.

Frankly, I'm angry enough that it's affected my health I'm finding myself feeling like I'm forced to log on [and I am; parties for BLU spells will be deader-than-Castrum even faster.]
And having to log off after about 2 hours to cool down.
I was super excited to see what the whole announcement showcase was about; now I cannot even convince myself to care. If nothing else, this betrayal was *awful* timing on SE's part.

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lol wow dood. You should put the game downs for a bit.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I still find myself angry beyond words at this utter betrayal. This is worse than FF13, or 1.0.

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I stopped reading there. lol

Maybe you should take a break. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. I'm a passionate person, too, and even I think you're a biiiiit overreacting here.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'd have been severely disappointed if they had *told* us they were going to make us run Bozja ahead of time.
But they did not. In fact, many interviews said the exact opposite, or at least allowed the opposite assumption to be widely made in NA circles, what with not having Bozja be a requirement for multiple patches.

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I do think they greatly failed their English audience. A few days before patch, I looked around to see if we had any definitive official statement in English on the topic and there wasn't anything. They make us rely on unofficial translations of their interviews and Live Letters. And so you have five or six different interpretations and translations of the same thing.

I think it's interesting they're making a point to do this showcase with an English translation as it's happening, rather than just some translated slides. Maybe they are finally realizing how much they drop the ball with us and how we often get left in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I still find myself angry beyond words at this utter betrayal. This is worse than FF13, or 1.0.

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We've reached critical mass. 1.0 nearly bankrupted the entire company alongside the myriad of other poor decisions. So I think it may be a just a tad more serious than you being "forced" into Bozja. Just a tad though /s

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'd have been severely disappointed if they had *told* us they were going to make us run Bozja ahead of time.
But they did not. In fact, many interviews said the exact opposite, or at least allowed the opposite assumption to be widely made in NA circles, what with not having Bozja be a requirement for multiple patches.
I am still beyond angry, even days later.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I do think they greatly failed their English audience. A few days before patch, I looked around to see if we had any definitive official statement in English on the topic and there wasn't anything. They make us rely on unofficial translations of their interviews and Live Letters. And so you have five or six different interpretations and translations of the same thing.

I think it's interesting they're making a point to do this showcase with an English translation as it's happening, rather than just some translated slides. Maybe they are finally realizing how much they drop the ball with us and how we often get left in the dark.

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You both realize they did tell us, right? Like, they straight up said completing the Bozja storyline is 100% mandatory for completing the Relic. There's no lying, there's no betrayal, there's no failing the English audience and failing to make a definitive official statement. As two other people mentioned in this very thread on page 1, here is a quote from the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LVIII Digest (05/01/2020)

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Weapons can be upgraded through two methods.
One involves upgrading them as you progress through the Bozjan Southern Front, while the other involves upgrading weapons through different means. Whichever method you choose, you’ll be required to progress the Save the Queen storyline.

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The Bozja storyline was always required, SE always communicated it. In the future, I recommend closely reading the official Live Letter summaries, they're more informative than the live translations you might find on the Reddit Discord.

I see a lot of assumptions here about what content is going to die and when and I can't really say it's tracked with my personal experience of doing that content which has largely been possible long after it gets added.

It's just weird to see people saying that things like blue mage spell learning parties will die when I had no trouble getting groups for the old ones during the mid-period between last update and this update. Feel like people are approaching this with the mindset like they're playing a certain other MMO that always wants you rushing to the newest thing at all costs.

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Originally Posted by Beddict

You both realize they did tell us, right? Like, they straight up said completing the Bozja storyline is 100% mandatory for completing the Relic. There's no lying, there's no betrayal, there's no failing the English audience and failing to make a definitive official statement. As two other people mentioned in this very thread on page 1, here is a quote from the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LVIII Digest (05/01/2020)



The Bozja storyline was always required, SE always communicated it. In the future, I recommend closely reading the official Live Letter summaries, they're more informative than the live translations you might find on the Reddit Discord.

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Okay I read through that and I can see what was confusing. They don't say the Save the Queen storyline is tied exclusively to Bozja. And when things launched, we were able to start and do it entirely outside of Bozja. And we very easy could have the resistance quest line with the Bozja story as something else.

Also, there has been a lot of confusion and questions swirling around. Surely SE saw that. But someone on their NA community reps or whoever didn't take the time to make sure they cleared up those questions someplace like here or Twitter. People would still be angry, but they would feel less blindsided by the change.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They don't say the Save the Queen storyline is tied exclusively to Bozja.

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You're kidding, right? Do they really need to say that the Save the Queen storyline - a storyline about a Bozjan queen and the Bozjan relic called Save the Queen - is tied to Bozja? I'd think the mightiest weapon in Bozjan history, the weapon the Resistance Relics are based off of, is pretty exclusively tied to Bozja. Seriously, how the hell are we gonna advance a story about the Bozjan Relic without Bozja.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And when things launched, we were able to start and do it entirely outside of Bozja.

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Memory farming could be done outside of Bozja, the rest of it could not. In fact, you are only given your Relic after completing Save the Queen Chapter 1. You cannot accept Fires in the Forge from Gerolt until you see that shiny artwork that says "Save the Queen, Chapter the First". It was mandatory to work on the Save the Queen storyline to start the Relic, surprise, it is mandatory to continue the storyline to continue the Relic.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And we very easy could have the resistance quest line with the Bozja story as something else.

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Except no, the Save the Queen storyline and the Resistance Relic quests are both found under the "Resistance Relic" section of the Journal. Common sense would indicate that they are linked. Or failing that then maybe the blue quest icons with + signs would indicate that hey, maybe those quests are important.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Also, there has been a lot of confusion and questions swirling around. Surely SE saw that. But someone on their NA community reps or whoever didn't take the time to make sure they cleared up those questions someplace like here or Twitter. People would still be angry, but they would feel less blindsided by the change.

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They did. Again, the official Live Letter translation outright says the Save the Queen storyline is mandatory to complete the Relic. That right there is an official answer on the official forums. If you failed to read and understand the very clear statement that the Save the Queen storyline is required, and that said Save the Queen storyline very clearly directs you to clear Castrum Lacus Litore, then that is 100% your fault, not SE's.

OP, maybe if you want the developers to hear you out on Bozja, you shouldn't start every post screaming about how much you hated Eureka.

The devs are human, and like most humans, probably less inclined to listen to someone who starts out by spitting directly in their faces.